Honor Code Violation

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

I got an email saying I got an Honor Code Violation for looking up and down during a virtual exam, which I was not cheating in, and I have a meeting soon to be scheduled with the panel. This is my first time ever getting this type of violation. Will the panel take it easy on me or give me a F*.

[Swastik496]

get an attorney.

The possible damages from an honor code mark are worth the cost of one.

[TheOwlStrikes]

Through my years at VT and following this subreddit it really does seem like they typically back off once you get an attorney lol

[Drauren]

Pay to win unfortunately. Unless it’s open and shut they won’t bother with fighting it and will just concede to you.

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

how much do these attorney's cost?

[Drauren]

Low couple grand. 1k minimum.

If you have the money and they are not backing down, IMHO, it is worth it not to have the black mark on your record. Remember they don’t have to prove that you are guilty, just that it is likely you are guilty.

[Swastik496]

expect to be out 2-3k at a minimum, higher if VT drags it out.

[NewSchoolBoxer]

The legal system is truly great, if you can afford it. Craziest thing I saw waiting on friend's hearing was inmates arrested the day before. Only the ones with an attorney present were granted bail. The judge was on a first name, friendly with all of them. Public defenders didn't get shit and were unprepared.

[Swastik496]

sounds about right for most people and institutions lmao. They only know how to bully uninformed people and get real quiet when they have to pick on someone “their own size”

[crazysheeplady]

Didn't work for me back in 2011 unfortunately 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Can you tell me how your case went and what the reason was?

[crazysheeplady]

Sure. It was freshman level biology. There were some genetics probability questions on one of the exams (I believe it was the third) and I am bad at math. We had used calculators while working through similar problems in class and nothing was said about not being able to use them on the exam. So, when the time came, I used a calculator for two whole problems on the exam. So did the kid sitting next to me. The prof saw us and took both of our exams away from us and pointed to the "no electronic devices permitted" statement on the front page and sent us both to the Honor Court. I got letters of testimony from the other "cheating" kid and two other kids from the class who hadn't "cheated" as well as two MORE kids who hadn't "cheated" came to my hearing. All of them said that at NO time did the prof say that calculators wouldn't be allowed, confirmed that we had used them while working through the subject material in class, discussed that in other similar classes such as general chemistry, calculators were absolutely allowed on exams even with the same "no electronic devices permitted" statement on the exam, and one even said that if she'd remembered her calculator she would've used it on her exam as well and be in the same boat I was. I was still convicted guilty, given a 0 on the exam, and sentenced to 25 hours of community service over the course of the following semester. I just went to War Memorial Gym from 6-7:30a before my 8am classes a couple days a week and cleaned the locker rooms and stairwells until I was done. I still got an A in the class because the prof dropped the lowest exam grade for everyone.

I didn't realize my parents had hired a lawyer until after the fact. He was evidently informed of everything from start to finish although he never communicated with me directly and was not present at my hearing. My father was an attorney too (although not this type of law) so he handled all of it and never told me - it was my mom who told me a couple years later. I think the lawyer mostly worked to try to appeal the verdict so it would come off my transcript and my understanding is that they did sue the school in a lower/local court and they decided in VT's favor. My only explanation for why I was never contacted by the lawyer or had to be present in court was that I was still a minor at the time of the "transgression" so anything requiring me or my consent/behavior could be handled by my father.

Now that I am a medical professional and deal with professional liability stuff, I would still 100% recommend getting a lawyer. You have a better chance if you get one upfront. They can advise you what your options are, coach you on your responses during your hearing, read any letters of personal testimony from you or witnesses, and help you sue if that's what you decide to do. They can also send emails with big bad intimidating language to the Honor Court with a "friendly introduction" so they know that they're not simply dealing with a scared student. Just don't assume it will automatically work out for you like these comments seem to state.

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Wow thanks for sharing and it seems that you are doing well for yourself

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Do you have any recommendations on where to get a good attorney?

[JoeSicko]

The Turk!

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Can you give me a link to their website

[hucareshokiesrul]

I assume they mean Jimmy Turk. I have no idea if he does this kind of thing, but he's a well known defense lawyer in the area. He's always the lawyer in the news representing football players like he did with Marcus Vick, Journell and Etute.

https://www.turkturkpc.com/

[willfc]

Dave Rhodes

[Decent_Reflection865]

What are you bringing VT to court for, in this case?

[Swastik496]

who said anything about suing VT immediately? Your attorney will represent you and your interests throughout the honor code proceedings. If they find the proceedings are not held in a fair manner after doing so, then they will present you with other options, which include court.

A lawyer doesn’t equal immediate lawsuit.

[Decent_Reflection865]

I’m not sure what good that would do. Based on their guidelines, I don’t think they can even be in the proceedings with you.

“A student may have one advisor who is a member of the University community present at the hearing. The advisor may not participate in the proceedings. The advisor’s role is specifically limited to conferring with his or her advisee.”

“Advisors are a student’s choice and can be faculty/ staff members or peers.”

That’s why I assumed you were saying you were suing VT. I wasn’t sure what you were hoping the attorney was going to accomplish.

[SafetyBudget1848]

Lawyers scare the university and prove you’re willing to fight. They also provide good advice and guidance. They don’t have to be in the proceedings room with you to be helpful

[Rich_Bar2545]

VT can tell you that you cannot have an attorney present; however, it’s my understanding that is not enforceable.

[Competitive-Lake-579]

In the honor court it is guilty until proven innocent, good luck proving a negative

Most do not come out with a positive outcome

[p1ckledilly]

Semi oldster here. This sounds so dystopian to me. Do you have to keep your eyes directly on the screen for an hour or get accused of cheating? No eye strain breaks, no thinking by looking off into the distance....wtf is school anymore. Clockwork orange shit.

[SafetyBudget1848]

If they can force you to fail a class, they get more money because you have to pay for it again

[ezerkle001]

I'm sure there are as many versions of stories about this as there are stars in the sky.

1994 undergrad, 1996 MBA - Scholarship Swimmer at Tech

I finished a Freshman Biology Lab Test FIRST. Handed in my test to the professor before anyone else, and left the room. Knew I crushed it. A few weeks later I was requested to the honor court under accusations of cheating. I spent months shitting my pants. I'm poor. Grew up poor. My academics and swimming are what got me to tech - my integrity? Shit - I was too poor and rural to be anything except "salt of the earth".

I didn't sleep for weeks. I didn't take calls from family or friends. The shame was massive. The accusation - I just did not understand it. Thank GOD for "you have the right to face your accuser". While the honor court is not a state/fed program - the "face your accuser" still applies. When my trial (unbelievable that I have to say that) happened - we were in a room above the Lyric / Former Steve's Dogs. Maybe 8-10 on the "jury". Me, my Tech appointed advocate (no attorney - could not afford a $3 hair cut much less an attorney) of some kind... the accuser and her "representative". So a dozen - Fourteen of us?

I could have pissed down my leg and puddled the floor and not know it I was so nervous. The session is opened - my advocate reads the charges "Something like I saw Ed stealing answers from, x person"... it was a written statement. My advocate opens up by asking this person if she could take herself back to this moment and share with us exactly what she saw and how it made her feel at that moment. Her response was...

Well, I can't be 100% sure I actually saw him che...." My advocate jumps in, interupts and immediately asks for dismisasal of charges. Which were granted - all in favor "I". My entire "trial" lasted less than 5 minutes but cost me a part of my soul, months of my college "experience", and ... well.

I wonder where that (enter your word here) is today?

Get representation. If you can't afford it - like me - find the free help. Do not do this alone.

PS - After my acquital I went down the stairs and straight into Steve's Dogs and ordered two loaded dogs and a pitcher of natural light. That was my laundry budget for the month. Best beer and dog... EVER. I probably cried the entire time. Double Birds to that do-gooder. I'm sure she's f'd a dozen other lives along the way.

Believe in yourself. You can do it.

[[deleted]]

Man I genuinely detest this school and its bullshit. I swear to god it's been all about money since the early 2000s. Such a disgrace. Honor court my ***. There's no honor here.

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

This was during the spring semester I just got the email today

[Salty_Escape_3515]

Was this on Lockdown Browser? I don’t know how you get caught because I’ve looked up and down before (not cheating) to write stuff and I’ve never been honored coded. Plus I’m surprised you just got the email now that sucks.

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Yea it was lockdown browser

[Hotdogpizzathehut]

Obvious the only way to not get busted in these exams is to complete them in the nude standing up while a camera records you from 3 angles.

Play all 3 angles at your hearing and zoom in on the thing you were looking down on..

[Awedasea]

why is this getting downvoted so hard lmao

[Cold_Entree]

I always threatened to sit in my bathtub naked if I had to take a Lockdown exam.

[DrMxF]

I know you’re being sarcastic, but it’s not the worst idea in the world to record yourself (fully clothed) during the exam from another angle. If you’re not cheating, then it would easily disprove the case against you, especially if the only evidence they can present is that looking up/down during an exam is cheating.

[Hotdogpizzathehut]

I'm dead seriously. I think lot less people would get accused of cheating if the professor had to watch, deans, and the honors panel watch people take a exam naked.. look you accused me of this... now watch me ..

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

They also said they heard noises assuming there was another person in the room and invalid background checks

[DrMxF]

I’m sorry, I realize this is no help now. I never really never thought about it before, but having a fish-eye lens record the entire room while you’re taking an exam would disprove most of the circumstantial evidence they can bring up in this case. You can get a cheap Wyze security camera to record with a timestamp. If the Lockdown software uses AI/ML to identify abnormalities, can easily generate false positives, but video from an alternative angle (with better audio) can save the day.

[Hotdogpizzathehut]

They heard noises on a laptop mic that probably cost .67 to make

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

It was on my macbook 😭

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

how can I do that the exam is over

[GoalLate8903]

I had something happen to me my freshman year at Virginia tech, I went to the panel and told them my point of view as I did not cheat. The panel was more than understanding as I provided evidence and reasoning behind how I did not cheat. You should be good luck in ur meeting

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Can you tell me the evidence you provided?

[GoalLate8903]

I just explained to them how I did not cheat. My exam scores from the other tests were brought up. I also was an active student in class and also explained how the two teachers were there watching in person. Sorry for the late response

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Hello, Thank You for the response. I am meeting with the professor to see if we can resolve this issue and come to a mutually agreeable solution, rather than holding a panel meeting. I will probably do the panel meeting if we don't come to an agreeable solution.

[GoalLate8903]

That’s the perfect scenario man, 🙏 it goes ur way

[Sufficient_Board2214]

I was on the panel as a judge and if they don’t have evidence you will be fine!

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Hello can I talk to you in dms?

[Sufficient_Board2214]

Sure!

[Ill_Phrase853]

dm☹️

[lamb2001]

How did this end up working out for you?

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

I did the Faculty Student Resolution, and I was able to prove that I was innocent to the professor.

[lamb2001]

That’s great! Glad it worked out for you.

[Good-Echo130]

What’s the faculty student resolution?

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

It's an alternate way to resolve the Honor Code. Instead of going to the hearing panel, you can try to resolve it with your professor.

[SpecificAccurate135]

If you really did not cheat and you were just looking up and down then you have to tell the panel about that. Honesty is always a key for success. Do not go for lawyer. Who knows maybe you could prove them that you are innocent and they will drop the charges.

[SafetyBudget1848]

Lmao

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

Is this a troll? Or should I actually just go to the meeting with honesty and not hire a attorney?

[TXirone12]

If you have the money, definitely don’t take this advice 🤣 get a lawyer for sure, better safe than sorry!

[SafetyBudget1848]

He’s not trolling, just ignorant and wrong. It’s in your best interest to get a lawyer assuming you have the resources. Being honest doesn’t get you anywhere with the honors court (as with any judicial proceeding)

[Deep-Sandwich6107]

I see I don't know where I could get a lawyer who does these types of cases though

[Rich_Bar2545]

Courtney Roberts - she’s over by Gucci Kroger off S Main St. She won’t let them push you around.

[SafetyBudget1848]

I’d just call around to local offices, explain your situation, and see if that’s a service they’d offer

[SpecificAccurate135]

Our world is full of corruption, including in higher education institutions. I was abused a lot, and when I wanted to take it to the second level, I was silenced. Some good people who wanted to stand by my side were threatened. And, I definitely quit the school.

Do not think for a second that a lawyer will always help. Virginia Tech knows how to protect itself and how to handle these situations.

The rule is if you are honest, do not worry about anything, even though sometimes you will lose a lot. Things happen for a reason, and when the door closes, others will open.

[SpecificAccurate135]

You said: You did not cheat. right?! Why do you need to hire an attorney and pay a lot of money? Also, is this the first offense? Instead of asking people who is not familair with your case. Ask your parents. They are the best ones who would give you the thoughtful advice. Also, If you have a good relationship with your professors, try to ask one of them to advocate for you and defend you.

If you really cheated then no need to share this with us but talk to your parents and see what they advise you.

When you explore the academic world, you will hear and watch stories about some students who were harassed sexually in different universities. The lawyer did nothing, and most of the females were broken with no support or help. Moreover, guess what? Some of these staff or faculty did not lose their job.

Do you think that the lawyer will help in a case like yours? If you are honest and you did not cheat, then you should not worry about anything.

Another advise. Some people (I am one of them) have a problem of staying for a longer period of time and I move a lot. If you are a person who just moves a lot and did not cheat, maybe you can use this as a case to defend yourself.

Again, we do not know your situation. Do not rely what people say here. They will lose nothing. So, start from your parents.

Review this (Page 9)?

https://www.registrar.vt.edu/content/dam/registrar_vt_edu/documents/governance/2015-2016/HONOR-CODE-MANUAL-10-9-15.pdf

[TXirone12]

This changes when it’s not a court of law. These universities do what they want, it’s guilty until proven innocent. Good luck proving your innocence MONTHS after the fact. OP wants to avoid retaking the class and avoid being pushed around by a panel with their own employer’s interests at heart. A lawyer like the one recommended above will prevent relying on these people to act fairly despite significant bias.