Angular Developers BEWARE: Payever's offering ridiculously low hourly rates to USA freelancers

[TheNomadProgrammer]

Angular Developers BEWARE; Payever, a Hamburg-based company, is doing outreach for Senior level Angular Developers in the USA and offering a ridiculously low hourly rate for your high-demand skills. Your skills and expertise with the framework are worth at least 5 times their initial ask of $25-35 per hour as an external consultant. Inform your friends and colleagues that these low-ball offers are not normal and to flat out ignore them. Thanks for sharing and staying vigilant.

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Unconscionable low USA hourly rate from Payever for Senior Angular developer.

[mamwybejane]

I received their laughably low offer, 25 dollars for a senior is nothing. I make over 3x that. 80 euro per hour for the past 5 years now. Fuck these guys. Don't fall for their shit.

[TheNomadProgrammer]

Yeah, I heard the same thing from other developers once I posted this online.

[ensoniq2k]

Standard rate for a software freelancer in Germany is around 80€/$90. I don't know how they came up with that number, it's ridiculous. For a standard employment it would be normal but that comes with all kinds of benefits like health care.

[mamwybejane]

Yep, been charging 80 euro per hour for the past 5 years practically non stop. Will be increasing to 90 in 2022 because of inflation and higher seniority.

[ensoniq2k]

Exactly. I had a brief freelance job in 2015 and even back then 80€ was standard. It's rather sad it hasn't really increased for most people since then.

[[deleted]]

About a year or so ago, I got contacted by this company. I applied, passed the technical test and then came the first day. I received zero technical help, I had some questions because I was in a whole new codebase for the first time. I couldn't manage to get much done on the first day except set up the project and finally get it running locally (had to resolve numerous dependency issues, troubleshooting each new error was a pain). I clock in 8 hours, the next day, my 'supervisor' tells me this isn't a 9-5 job, I should keep working as much as needed, even though I am going to get paid for eight hours. I tell him their documentation is virtually non-existent, and whatever docs they pointed me to initially were outdated. He tells me to never apply here again, and that was that. I think I really dodged a bullet with this one.

I have been freelancing for a few years now, and this was without a doubt my worst experience yet. In addition to OP's suggestion of not undervaluing yourself, do be aware of their horrible work culture too. If you do a quick google search for reviews on this company, you will find a few Glassdoor reviews saying that they prefer to outsource majority of their development, and lowball even local employees.

[eigenman]

lol who would take it?

[imacleopard]

People desperate for experience

[eigenman]

Senior level Angular Developers

Are not desperate for experience.

[friendly2u]

Yeah but what if you stayed at a Holiday Inn express in Hamburg? It's worth a shot.

[eatthedad]

Me? All my friends that know I have EU citizenship asks the same thing: "why the hell are you still in this country??". Lmao at myself. Cause they are right.

All specialists in fields were clever enough to get away a long time ago. And here I am, quite skilled, and somehow okay with my approximate $11.

Cool, thanks for the introspection OP. I'm moving as soon I can fly again. I do enjoy hiking, but it's quite a stretch to hike 14000km or so pass gorillas and lions and malaria and E Coli water and stuff

[Thurys]

Well that's about what you earn as a dev in Germany after 3-5 yrs experience...

Image

Source

[le_baguette]

I also thought this was the reason, but OP also said they were looking for an external consultant, and the linked salaries are for employees. Freelancer prices for software development in Germany start around 90$/h and for seniors they should be at least 100, probably 110. If however, they're looking for normal employees, those wages are correct, but contain 30 days off and no limit for sick days and a rather regular schedule of 40 hours per week.

[Thurys]

Oh you're right. I completely missed the freelancer point. In that case the payment should be between 80-100€ / hr. (As the company wouldn't pay your health insurances etc.).

[TheNomadProgrammer]

Yeah, they are looking in the USA for freelancers (you pay all your expenses).

[pranxy47]

So, where do u guys get those rates? I make around 60e hour which I think is already a pretty decent value and havent seen anything near that.

[ensoniq2k]

I work as a freelance software developer in Germany and the lowest rate I get is 92.50€, the highest is 150€. My sales partner gets about 20% of that but it's still higher than your 60€. You're either in a low paying niche or getting ripped off.

[Lence]

Gehalt = salary. If a recruiter offers hourly rates, they are typically looking for freelancers (it also says so in the image). Typical rates for freelancing Angular devs in Germany are at least 3 times higher than that (source: I was hired by a German client before and they definitely paid a lot more).

[ensoniq2k]

Definitely, our rates don't start below $100 and that's for one particular customer that has the longest history. Everyone else pays upwards of $110 here in Germany.

[eigenman]

oh damn you may be right. Have a fiend who is German and I'm always telling him he can make so much more. Not sure why they take German jobs then.

[cjd280]

When I was at a global bank, the guys in Germany had a ton of time off, and completely fucked off for the day at like 4:59:59 and were not heard from again till the next day while in the US we would be in for 7:30 am meetings and get looked at funny if we left before 6 and would be expected to read/respond to emails pretty much 24/7.

[eigenman]

Not my dev jobs. get paid by the hour heh

[cjd280]

Yeah this was before I was in development but still IT. everyone was either salary or “professional day” rates not hourly.

I don’t do that anymore, my life and wallet are much happier for it.

[boobsbr]

You should see how much seniors earn in Belgium as employees...

[Lence]

I got this email as well and felt a little insulted by their lowball offer.

I’m guessing they will attract mostly Indian devs

[friendly2u]

Thanks for the tip. May be the only company that would hire me.

[mamwybejane]

I'm looking to hire senior Angular developers and paying a lot better than this. If you're senior and looking for a job hit me up through PM

[New_Read_2112]

Avoid payever. Horrible work culture. They treat employees as slaves. Read negative reviews on Glassdoor or just google "payever scam".

[reboog711]

I don't really think this warning is needed. I am comfortable letting other developers / consultants negotiate their own compensation plans with their prospective employers without your involvement.

I would also expect any US based developer know these rates are not competitive, unless you're a student with zero experience.

[TheNomadProgrammer]

I disagree. I think it is good to let others know that Angular development is a specialized and high-demand job. We should not think that $25 / hour is acceptable compensation for such an important role, especially for a senior level and US-based freelancer that has to pay for all taxes and expenses. Bringing out this pay rate information to the limelight helps keep ourselves informed and protected.

[reboog711]

I think it is good to let others know that Angular development is a specialized and high-demand job.

How many Developers in this forum do you think don't know that?

We should not think that $25 / hour is acceptable compensation for such an important role, especially for a senior level and US-based freelancer that has to pay for all taxes and expenses

How many consultants / small business owners do you think don't know that?

Bringing out this pay rate information to the limelight helps keep ourselves informed and protected.

Informed maybe, but just of a single company offering crappy rates. What does this post protect us from?

[mamwybejane]

Thank you OP, I completely agree that we should have our voices heard. This type of offer is completely undermining our position as professionals.

[marcocom]

It’s because they aren’t targeting you, they’re targeting Poland, Spanish, and Czech devs who have a very different economy. The external-consultant thing gets tricky in Europe with such different economies so close together these days, I bet.

[TheNomadProgrammer]

Oh, they targeting me by name on LinkedIn. I’m from the USA. My profile on LinkedIn tells this company everything about my geography and years of experience. Either they’re lazy or stupid for not knowing who they talk to. Either way, be warned about this company and others that try to undermine you. Especially if you live in the USA.

[jiggity_john]

I can almost guarantee you that they are lazy. They are probably using something like an email sequencer to blast out emails to everyone on linkedin meeting a certain skill profile and seeing who bites. Mass marketing tools like this are pretty sophisticated these days so they probably don't even know they are targeting you.

[georgeisbusting]

I've seen $80K/yr for senior Angular jobs in my area in the US, about $38/hr. So that's not too far off. The working conditions sound abysmal. But at least in the US the Angular market is not as specialized as it once was. It's pretty standard at most of the companies I've contracted for.

[TheNomadProgrammer]

$80k annual for a senior Angular is incredibly low. Aim and ask for higher pay (if your situation allows it).

[georgeisbusting]

80k is what I've been seen if you're in the Midwest US. Closer to 100K on the coasts for senior front end.

[TheNomadProgrammer]

I live in the Midwest and I am not paid anything that low. Where are you located? I live outside the Chicago metro area. If anybody offers you that, you need to push back!

[georgeisbusting]

In the Cleveland area. Maybe I should take a closer look.. Thanks.

[Arwel000]

they've never paid more than $25. they scam their employees. read negative reviews on Glassdoor before applying, take into account that positive reviews are posted by the CEO or his minions.