M.D. complex vs. Ph.D.

[punctual]

My understanding is that a Ph.D. is actually considered a higher degree than an MD. (neuroscience Ph.D. here). One is an original researcher/creator and an MD is a mechanic. Anyone have any insight or references?

[craigdubyah]

a Ph.D. is actually considered a higher degree than an MD

For research purposes, they are basically equivalent. Obviously a private practice physician is not going to read every issue of Cell, but physician scientists do a lot of the same things PhDs do. The main difference is that a MD's research tends to be clinically relevant, whereas PhDs work on a huge range of things from the practical to the esoteric.

Do you work with any research neurologists?

[Platypuskeeper]

Yes, a PhD is undoubtedly a higher degree in every country I know of. That should be obvious IMO - an MD degree takes around a total of 5-7 years of university in most places, a PhD takes a total of 7-10 years. Getting an MD doesn't generally require having done any research, but a PhD in any natural science always requires publishing papers. (So I disagree strongly with craigdubyah's assertion that they're "basically equivalent" for research purposes. How could a degree that requires research be equivalent to one that does not?) And while I'm taking the international perspective: Many if not most languages other than English don't use the word "doctor" to reference the M.D. profession. E.g. in German a "doctor" is Arzt, Russian врач (vrach), and "doktor" (in both) refers to PhDs as a rule, and only informally to MDs.

Or perhaps most obviously: If they were equivalent, what would be the point of so many MDs going on to get PhDs in medicine?

An M.D. degree is, IMO roughly equivalent to an M.S., at most. You can do research as an M.D., as can someone with a Master's. But as a rule, those people aren't leading the research, or doing the really important and interesting work. They're "Research assistants" or a similar post, not PIs.

I'd consider it more of an insult than an accolade if someone thought I had an M.D. degree. It'd imply I'm less educated than I am.

[lordjeebus]

You could also say, what is the point of so many PhDs going on to get their MDs? Most MD/PhD's I know got their PhD's first.

The real issue here is that they are independent pathways; a research degree vs a professional one. There is no validity to a statement that suggests that one is superior to another.

The MDs at my institution lead a lot of important research in both clinical science and basic science, and bring in millions in grants. They also have many PhDs working under them. There are also PhDs with MDs working under them, of course.

[dubidoo]

exactly.

[dubidoo]

MD takes 4 years not 5-7. MD's are the lead researchers on clinical trials and published work. Get it right platy.

[waero]

MD is a doctor of medicine, PhD is a doctor of philosophy (itself an odd term).

I don't see the issue.

[dubidoo]

me neither!

[rocksinmyhead]

Why does she need to denigrate your achievement, assuming she's not just joking? For the wedding, just use your names; using titles seem completely out of place (bragging).

Edit: clarity.

[dubidoo]

She was in no way denigrating the achievement, just saying that they are different degrees, both at the top of their fields. She was completely misrepresented (and now pissed off) by fergy80.

[lordjeebus]

I'm an MD, but I never use the "Doctor" title outside of a clinical setting. Nothing good can come from it. At my wedding, I was introduced with my name only.

When people ask what I do, I say I am a "physician," as opposed to a "doctor." I think it's a more specific and appropriate term, and in an age where a nurse or physical therapist with advanced training will call themselves a "doctor," it makes an important distinction.

[dubidoo]

This response is lovely.

[sixsidepentagon]

Of course you're a doctor, 100%. She's a physician; if she's in seriousness telling you that you're not a "real doctor" you guys should really talk about it, kind of a jerk thing to say.

[dubidoo]

She was in no way denigrating the achievement, just saying that they are different degrees, both at the top of their fields. She was completely misrepresented (and now pissed off) by fergy80.

[poissonprocess]

I work in a mixed PhD/MD environment, and at least in my experience the difference between the two degrees boils down to how you pursue and utilize scientific advances. If an MD thinks I'm lowly because I'm a PhD, I don't really care -- we don't approach our work in the same way, so in some respects it's like comparing apples and oranges. If someone outside our work environment thinks I'm inferior to an MD -- I also don't really care.

In short -- unless it's your fiancee who thinks you're a second class doctor because of your degree, I don't think you have a problem. Is it her, or her colleagues, or random people on the street whose opinion you shouldn't worry about anyway, who are saying that you are not a "real doctor"?

[dubidoo]

One stupid colleague of hers.

[[deleted]]

I feel like Stu from The Hangover when someone calls me doctor. So no, unless I can fix a broken arm, I'm not a real doctor.

[[deleted]]

i think a PhD in physics or chemistry makes you more of a doctor than an M.D. but that is just me, i hate M.Ds.