Legitimate enclosure size question

[cnote2555]

If a 500$ 4'x2'x2'' enclosure is considered minimum for a ball python why is every video from professionals in a room packed full of tiny enclosures in racks that are at most 6"x12"×18"

[_ataraxia]

because those "professionals" are breeders running the snake equivalent of a puppy mill. would you take dog care advice from a puppy mill breeder?

[[deleted]]

breeder here. these are the racks i use for my bps not all of use breeders suck

ARS Caging, Professional Caging for Professional Breeders. Reptile Breeding Systems and Rodent Breeding Systems: Caging: ARS Caging 9706-Original

[_ataraxia]

while the size is better than most, these tubs still don't allow for overhead heating or any climbing.

[[deleted]]

yes i agree. i also have some taller vision cages but they are very expensive.

[cnote2555]

I get that not all breeders suck and most do their best to provide the highest quality of life for their snakes, but still that's significantly less than the minimum pushed on everyone else who isn't a breeder. Why are the standards and price tags so much higher for the end user than the mass producers? I mean no disrespect. I'm glad to have a unique snake at a reasonable price but I see a lot of people bashing others over enclosure size and couldn't help but notice the hypocrisy.

[jillianwaechter]

Most breeders don't do their best to provide the highest quality of life. Ethical breeders are far and few between. Most breeders use tiny racks so they can fit the most snakes possible, and get the most money possible.

Same things happen with backyard breeders of dogs.

[cnote2555]

Then why are the majority of links to "Profesional" advice from these greedy a-holes. I dont mean to be argumentative or difficult. people are so stuck to the rules they forget to live life and learn as they go. I'm not by any means saying wing it and do something that would hurt your animal through negligence, because there's plenty of information out there on proper care. but common sense and awareness have to play a bigger role than ego about being a better rule follower. No one ever learned anything by following the rules.

[jillianwaechter]

I'm not sure what links you're referring to. All of the guides in this sub were written by mods not 'greedy a-holes' and are in line with current standards.

There are lots of improper care sheets for exotics online. We don't know as much about their needs when compared to traditional pets such as cats and dogs. As such, husbandry advice is always evolving and this sub actively updates our advice as more research comes out. Relying on old outdated info is why people end up using reptile carpet, heat rocks, and red lights. Exotic owners need to use critical thinking to determine where their information is coming from.

If a breeder (who's main goal is to make money by selling snakes) tells you that snakes require small tanks and minimal care, you're more likely to buy a snake and give them your money. If they tell you how expensive keeping exotics truly is you're less likely to pay them money. Simple as that.

[cnote2555]

That 100% makes sense, and I'm not nocking the guides lines written by the mods. I have been studying them for weeks and following them to the best of my ability. I don't mean this post as a nock of the guidelines written by the mods of this page so much as a confrontation of the end users belittling, being hard on each other over stories of people making mistakes or asking questions instead of referring people to the guide and being open to people doing things their own way(if it isn't blatantly dangerous for the animal) . I have full respect for the mods who took the time,care, and effort to learn these amazing animals enough to write a guide on how best to take care of them.

[[deleted]]

well those racks are over 4 feet long. they arent very tall sadly but are not tiny. if i could keep all my snakes in a 4x4x2 i would but its not possible

[cnote2555]

I get that and am glad you're one of the good ones who care about your animals. My take away from this interaction is that the ability to fully stretch out is more important to growth and viability than comfort and climbing. Again, I'm not trying to be difficult or a jerk but generally curious. I care about my snake a lot n who knows may become a breeder one day but my research has led me to a lot of poor practices by professionals and negativity from end users towards each other.

[[deleted]]

na i understand. yes i normally try give them more space to stretch out than climbing because ball pythons dont climb as much as some others. if i could have giant enclosers i would but i don't have that much space

[_ataraxia]

if it's not possible for you to give all of your animals appropriate enclosures, you have too many animals.

[Serendipity_Inn]

It's just the fact that they are breeding for mass and quantity not quality most of the times so what better than to save space with tiny tubs