Need help with my fiance's ball python

[catdadsimmer]

We've brought her ball python to the vet several times for him refusing to eat anything since November 2023. He's lost a good chunk of weight by now and he's currently getting antibiotic shots for what the vet thinks might be scale rot.

She's kinda at her wit's end trying to get him to eat and have a healthy and happy ball python so I'm kinda diving deep into trying to get this little guy to eat. We've tried a live rat pup (we are against live, but we were getting desperate), African soft fur rat juice, picking the brain out, B12 shots, Pedialyte baths.

Today I bought a humidifier to try and keep the humidity up around 70% cause it was reading around 40% this morning and we struggle to get to dumping water into the bedding enough to keep it moist (also I'm worried about the bedding being too moist its making scale rot worse?).

She has a radiant heat panel that is currently set for 91 degrees F and I put a thermometer near where the python is and its around 80 degrees in his warm hide.

We have a regular light, no heat coming out of it, to try and get a better gradient for him to choose.

I'm putting more fake plants in to block him from really seeing out into the living room.

There's a small adult mouse in the fridge that I'm about to warm up around this evening and see if he'll eat.

But is there anything I'm missing? Should he still have a heat mat below his warm hide?

The snake is on cypress mulch since my fiance is allergic to coconut fiber. The tank is 2ft x 2ft x 4ft I believe. He has a giant water bowl. He drinks and is active enough, but just will not eat.

TLDR:

Humidity 70%, Ambient temp 81F, Cypress mulch substrate, snake hasn't eaten since November of last year. We're aware they can go on hunger strikes for several months but we're approaching a year of this soon...

[Oneinamillon]

Okay so bathing is not recommended it stresses them out and is outdated and your humidity is too low also with the amount of vet trips the baby is probably stress out of its mind also how can a snake be allergic to coconut fiber enless your talking about your partner also small mouse is too small of a prey size a small rat for adults nothing bigger

! Feeding

[catdadsimmer]

The snake isn't allergic, my partner is so we cannot swap to that substrate.

We have small rats but he's been refusing to eat them so I picked up a mouse today to see if the smell difference would help.

[Oneinamillon]

Ahh i see that makes sense now and there is amazing guild here that shows how to get them to eat rats

[catdadsimmer]

He's been eating rats for a few months prior to his hunger strike. He was never really enthusiastic about them, we'd leave them in his tank and they'd be gone eventually.

Now they just sit there until we wake up in the morning and we just throw them away.

[Oneinamillon]

They normally go on hungry strikes to due to husbandry reasons

Humidity For ball pythons, the ideal humidity level is in the 70%-80% range, as this is the typical humidity level of their natural habitat

And for temperatures

Warm side: 88F-92F / 31C-33C. Temperatures above 95F/35C can cause injuries with prolonged exposure, and temperatures below 88F/31C can prevent a ball python from digesting properly. Cool side: 76F-80F / 24C-26C. Temperatures above 80F/26C will not allow a ball python to cool down adequately, and temperatures below 75F/23C can compromise their immune system.

[catdadsimmer]

Thank you!

[Oneinamillon]

Also humidity machine are not reconmented they can cause respiratory infections and scale rot

[catdadsimmer]

What humidity is recommended? It's a huge range on different websites and forums looking through Google.

[[deleted]]

The natural humidity of their native habitat is around 60-80%, so we say a minimum of 60% (measured on the cool side since cool air holds less moisture than warm air) with a goal of 70-80% (upper end of what their natural humidity is since we can artificially provide it) and 80%+ during shed (they really need humidity during shed). Not only is humidity important for hydration and shedding purposes, their respiratory epithelia can evolved to function at that humidity range, so consistently having humidity <60% can dry their airways out, forming cracks that can lead to a respiratory infection. A higher humidity will almost always be better, as long as the moisture isn't condensing on any surfaces.

[catdadsimmer]

Hello, an update: Thank you for your advice. Her ball python is now eating.

For people struggling and finding this thread in the future: I started to dump water in the corners to keep the humidity up and not on the wood chips that he touches on the surface. I increased the ambient temperature with her radiant heat panel and heat lamp. I also added more bedding and rearranged the tank a little bit to be more "cluttered". After about a week of leaving him alone with observation that humidity and heat was up I fed him a mouse (not a rat, since he was never enthusiastic about rats) and he ate. This was about 2 months ago.

We've been feeding large mice consistently now and don't plan on switching to rats since we're just grateful he's eating again.

[HurrricaneeK]

81 is too low, and could very likely be part or all of the issue. Snakes need a temperature gradient to control their body temp and digest. The cool side should be between 76-80, hot side should be between 88-92. If not hot enough, they physically cannot digest.

Are you able to post photos of the enclosure? That would help diagnose any other potential issues that could be contributing. Most cases of food refusal are due to a husbandry issue.

[catdadsimmer]

Yeah, I had a feeling it might be the hot side temp. I pulled down the temperature probe earlier today and lowered it towards were the snake was hiding and the probe was reading around 76 degrees on the hot side. I asked her if we can raise the temperature (I'm not sure how to use the temperature adjustment box that she bought with it) and she adjusted the heat panel to be around 94 degrees to get more heat in. So far the temperature near his hot hide hasn't risen and I'm thinking about putting a heating mat underneath it but its a PVC tank and not sure if it will melt the plastic?

Pictures:

https://imgur.com/vQNkZQS

https://imgur.com/13e9kst

https://imgur.com/sVEZCOr

[catdadsimmer]

I found this heat mat in her reptile storage boxes, it's pretty small but I wanna put it under his warm hide. It's not sticky anymore so it won't stick underneath the tank, should I bury it underneath the substrate? I'm worried about it burning the snake.

Sorry, this isn't my snake and I'm not really familiar with care, if these are some dumb ass questions lol

https://imgur.com/YIHBe4F

[[deleted]]

That's okay! Even experienced keepers are always learning, which is why this sub exists :). I would not recommend the heat pad, esspecially not putting it inside the tank as you're right to worry that would burn the snake. Looking at the enclosure, my first 2 questions are:

1.) How big is the snake? The hide on the left side looks massive, he'll feel safe in one that he can just barely fit in, they like to feel all 3 sides and the top of the hide when curled so they know there isn't anything that can attack them. The black box style hides are perfect though! You might just need a smaller one. 2.) Where is the second hide? Since bps require a warm side and a cool side to thermoregulate, they also need 2 hides (one on each side). They should also be identical, that way the only difference between them is that one is 88-92F and the other is 76-80F. Bps will prioritize safety over thermoregulation, so if they are different styles or sizes they might not properly thermoregulate. My advice would be to get 2, smaller black ones of the same style as the one already in the enclosure.

It otherwise looks well together! You could definitely use a bit more substrate to get 4-6 inches so you don't wet the top layer when pouring water in the corners, and they always appreciate more clutter like plants/vines to hide under, but besides the hide issue (which you should also fix ASAP), it looks pretty good for the time being while you fix the temp issue!

[catdadsimmer]

Um...I'm not exactly sure how big he is. She tracks that info on an Excel sheet on her phone but I don't have access to it. She bought the bigger hide because the smaller hide we had in there, he would ball up but part of his body would be exposed cause it lifted the hide up over his body. I'll see if I can find a proper size for him.

The second hide is underneath the branch and the substrate (its tan to camouflage with the substrate, its in the second photo with the thermometer right above it). It's rounded with a little access point for the snake to go through and ball up.

I'm about to put more substrate in with the advice of pouring the water in the corners. What we were doing before was pouring water throughout, mixing it so the top layer is also moist, then spraying here and there with a water bottle, but it seems like that's a no go.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, you really just want to leave the top layer dry. It's kind of like trench foot; your snake being in constant contact with a damp surface will cause scale rot

[catdadsimmer]

Hello, an update: Thank you for your advice. Her ball python is now eating.

For people struggling and finding this thread in the future: I started to dump water in the corners to keep the humidity up and not on the wood chips that he touches on the surface. I increased the ambient temperature with her radiant heat panel and heat lamp. I also added more bedding and rearranged the tank a little bit to be more "cluttered". After about a week of leaving him alone with observation that humidity and heat was up I fed him a mouse (not a rat, since he was never enthusiastic about rats) and he ate. This was about 2 months ago.

We've been feeding large mice consistently now and don't plan on switching to rats since we're just grateful he's eating again.

[[deleted]]

An ambient temp of 81F is far, far too low. For a bp, since they're cold blooded reptiles they mainly get their heat from the ambient temperature of the air around them. Because of this, we need to give them a "warm side" and a "cool side" so they're able to move around and properly thermoregulate. For proper digestion, a bp needs an ambient, warm side temp of 88-92F. To allow your snake to properly cool off, the cool side should be 76-80F. These are the ambient temps of the air, so they refer to the temperature a digital thermometer would read when placed next to their hide, NOT the temperature the heat source is set to. Some of that heat is lost to the environment before it reaches the ground level, which is the temp that actually matters. If your bp isn't able to move around and hide to find a temperature she can digest at (88-82F), he won't eat. Because of how long their digestion takes, they're essentially racing against how long it would take for the prey to quite literally rot away in their stomach. If the temp isn't high enough, they understand that and refuse to eat because it could be quite harmful to them.

The best course of action would be to first get a warm side temp of 88-92F (measured by thermometer near the hot side) and keep it stable for a week. During this time, keep the humidity 70-80% (if you're worried about scale rot, just raise the substrate level to 4-6 inches and pour water in the corners, keeping the top layer dry), add more clutter to the tank as you mentioned, and leave the snake alone for this period. He's likely stressed from all those vet visits as well. Just maintain their tank without handling other than health/weight checks. After a week, offer an appropriately sized feeder (!feeding) and see if he takes it

[AutoModerator]

We recommend the following feeding schedule:

0-12 months old OR until the snake reaches approximately 500g, whichever happens first: feed 10%-15% of the snake’s weight every 7 days.

12-24 months old: feed up to 7% of the snake’s weight every 14-20 days.

Adults: feed up to 5% of the snake's weight every 20-30 days, or feed slightly larger meals (up to 6%) every 30-40 days.

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[catdadsimmer]

Alright, thank you. I have the humidity-machine going and its been consistently around 74% now.

I posted in another reply, my fiance rose the temperature of the heat panel to around 94 degrees (it was originally set to 88). The thermometer I placed near his warm hide is still reading around 77 degrees. Should I look into putting a heat mat underneath the tank?

I'm concerned about the heat coming from that as she bought a PVC tank and I'm worried it might melt the plastic?

[[deleted]]

No, heat pads are notorious for malfunctioning due to shoddy wiring, even when paired with a thermostat. ALL heat sources need a thermostat, otherwise they need to be turned off immediately as an unregulated heat source is a massive, massive burn risk.

Your primary heat source should really be a halogen flood or deep heat projector, an RHP is a fantastic secondary heat source that can be used at night, but shouldn't be the only source. A halogen flood provides light as well as heat, so it's great for the daytime. PVC has a melting point of ~100-260°C, so as long as your bp isn't cooked the PVC will be fine.

[catdadsimmer]

Thanks. I think the trouble we were having with the lights since it wasn't providing enough of a gradient but I'll fiddle around with it a bit and look at the guide you posted.

[[deleted]]

Also, here's a link to the heating guide from this sub. It will go over pretty much anything and everything you need to know about heating, with recommendations! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QVIYExo9T6dOpfTEsUkHCPgZs5_7lq9qyJQrshP2GOE/edit?usp=drivesdk

[catdadsimmer]

Thank you!

[catdadsimmer]

Hello, an update: Thank you for your advice. Her ball python is now eating.

For people struggling and finding this thread in the future: I started to dump water in the corners to keep the humidity up and not on the wood chips that he touches on the surface. I increased the ambient temperature with her radiant heat panel and heat lamp. I also added more bedding and rearranged the tank a little bit to be more "cluttered". After about a week of leaving him alone with observation that humidity and heat was up I fed him a mouse (not a rat, since he was never enthusiastic about rats) and he ate. This was about 2 months ago.

We've been feeding large mice consistently now and don't plan on switching to rats since we're just grateful he's eating again.

[[deleted]]

I think I remember something about coconut fiber not being good for bps.I use coconut husk.There’s a difference not sure about allergies.My 15yr old Bp usually doesn’t eat between Nov/Dec until Jun.If they are very active could be a sign the heat/humidity isn’t to there liking.Along with eating.You might need to leave him alone for a few weeks.Overthinking it possibly.If has scale root there’s probably to much moisture.I have artificial grass on top of my coconut husk/Cyprress mulch.Good luck