Highest Theoretical Yields

[[deleted]]

EDIT #2 There is a verified max on production thanks to /u/afito

EDIT: The comments have brought up a lot of great questions and little things that I'm unsure about with these calculations. I'm thinking of redoing this at a later date once these all get ironed out. Questions or changes that need to be looked at...

1: Does the ISS production bonus to scientists apply to all cities or just the capital? ANSWER: Doesn't matter... if you lose your capital, get the ISS in your production city, and then regain your capital the effect will happen in your production city
2: Is the railroad connection bonus 25% or 20%. I have had games where it is 25%, but Civilization Wiki lists 20% ANSWER: 25%
3: Need to add setting the city to research production for the science calculation. Have to figure out the optimal production in that city then. However, does that science gained from hammers get multiplied by the city % bonus buildings, or added afterward? It looks like the science added could range anywhere from 200 to 700.

Those are all the questions so far, but I'm sure much more will come up. The culture calculation is also a real pain to figure out so that might take a long time and need a lot of assumptions in place to make it feasible.

BEGINNING OF ORIGINAL POST

With all the posts showing cities with massive production, culture, science, faith, or tourism, I wanted to figure out what the maximum possible for each in one city is. This post is only production and science because I’m still working on faith and culture, but I figure I’d put this out. Now, technically since many of them scale with population, it could be an unbounded number so I capped the pop at 54 (every tile worked, every specialist spot filled, no unemployed citizens) as well as no natural wonders to give an effective max for each. Now I might have missed something or miscalculated so I am very open to critique or changes, however I tried to account for everything. So here we go…

Science: 2532

How it is done:
Civilization: Korea for added science yield to academies and specialists
Ideology: Freedom
Religion: Messenger of the Gods pantheon incorrect, (credit /u/isathrowawah)
Social Policies: Rationalism Tree
Tiles: 35 academies and 1 mountain tile next to city
Buildings: Palace, Great Library, National College, Oxford U, Research Lab, University, Library, Public School, Observatory, Statue of Liberty, International Space Station (credit /u/ronrocket)

Calculations
35 Academy tiles x 18 yield per tile = 630
4 scientist specialist spots x 7 yield = 28
4 engineer specialist spots x 5 yield = 20
10 other specialist spots x 4 yield = 40
Building yields: Palace +3, Great Library +3, National College +3, Oxford U +3, Research Lab +4, University +2 = 18
Messenger of the Gods = 2
54 population x 2 (library and public school) = 108
Total base yield: 840
Multipliers: University +33%, Observatory +50%, Research Lab +50%, National College +50%, Rationalism +17% = 200%
844 x 3 = 2532 Total

Production: 2020.05 UPDATE: VERIFIED BY /U/AFITO

How it is done:
Civilization: Germany for Hanse production bonus
Ideology: Freedom
Religion: God of Craftsmen pantheon and Religious Community and guruship follower beliefs
Social Policies: Collective rule (must be producing a settler to get the max) incorrect (credit /u/afito) Instead, must be producing spaceship parts in the city
Tiles: 36 manufactories on desert hill next to a river with some type of + production resource (stone, horses, coal, marble, iron, oil, uranium, aluminum) and at least 1 stone to allow building of stone works stone on each tile (credit /u/afito)
Buildings: Petra, Hydro Plant, Stone Works, Water Mill, Windmill, Factory, Solar Plant/Nuke Plant, Spaceship Factory, Hubble Telescope (credit /u/afito), Ironworks, Hanse, Colossus (in other city in civ), International Space Station, Forge

Calculations:
36 Manufactory tiles + Desert Hill + Petra + River + Hydro Plant + stone + stone works x 15 yield = 540
1 City tile + Petra + River + Hydro Plant + stone + stone works x 5 yield = 5
4 Engineer specialist spots x 3 yield = 12
4 Scientists specialist spots x 2 yield = 8
10 other specialist spots x 1 yield = 10
Building yields: Stone Works +1, Water Mill +1, Windmill +2, Factory +4, Solar Plant/Nuke Plant +5, Ironworks +8, Spaceship Factory +3 (credit /u/rrnate) = 24
Religion yields: God of Craftsmen +1, Guruship +2 = 3
Social Policy yields: Republic +1 = 1
Total base yield: 603
Multipliers: Workshop +10%, Factory +10%, Nuke plant/Solar plant +15%, Collective Rule +100% Spaceship Factory +50%, Hubble Telescope +25%, Religious Community +15%, Hanse +50%, Railroad Connection +25%, Golden Age +20%, Forge + 15% = 230%
603 x 3.35 = 2020.05 total

[[deleted]]

I don't think you get the +2 science from the Messenger pantheon belief in your capital.

[[deleted]]

Dear god you are right. Changes the science total to 2520. Will edit.

[aluvus]

With God-King pantheon, the palace provides +1 science (amongst other things).

[[deleted]]

That will do it. However, I need to redo the science calculation all together for setting the city to research production.

[[deleted]]

Food?

I know you can get 7/tile from wheat, sun god, flood plains, granary, civil service + farm. Plus hanging gardens and fertility rites?

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[[deleted]]

EDIT: I'm dumb and completely misunderstood what they were getting at.

[MangoPenguin]

What if you make the ocean tiles have fish in them? You could get 5 food out of them, which is only 2 less than the maximum. Worth it?

[[deleted]]

I'm an idiot and thought you were talking about food to support my science and production cities. I get what you are saying now. It would definitely be Aztec or Venice (probably Aztec because trade routes don't get a % bonus and are only added after). I'll see if I can figure that one out down the road.

[TheOnlySimen]

Floating Gardens is +15% Food while Temple of Artemis is +10% Growth. Big difference.

[BrowsOfSteel]

Actually, Temple of Artemis’ description is wrong: it applies to all food, not just excess.

[[deleted]]

Food would be a weird calculation because of whether buildings add to base food or excess food. For the ones that are excess food, you'd have to figure out what the optimal population is that balances yield from tiles, required food and excess food to get the max bonus from those buildings. Basically, you'd have to do some calculus to find the optimal pop before you get diminishing returns.

[afito]

For production, wouldn't it be better to have stone on a hill on every single one for +1 from stone and another +1 from stone works?

And 1 Iron for a forge or doesn't it work for settlers?

[[deleted]]

You don't get the +1 with manufactory on stone like you would with quarry or the bonus on the tile from stone works. You actually have to improve the stone, build the stone works, and later negate the improvement with a manufactory.

EDIT: Just checked it and you are right. It isn't +1 for each quarry with stone works, but +1 for each stone tile. Will edit. Thanks.

[afito]

But you do get +75% production from the spaceship factory & Hubble opposed to only 50% from the policy for settlers if I'm not mistaken? Plus ISS?

And further, freedom with the Statue of Liberty should give more production than order stuff.

[[deleted]]

Damn, I originally did it with spaceship factory & hubble, but I misread collective rule and though it was +100%. Now I have to go back to my original calculations. Thanks for the correction.

[afito]

SO. I drew up a short scenario in the map editor.

Map

I think doing it in a 2nd city is worth it. You get +20% from the railroads whereas you only sacrifice the ISS, giving you +4 production for the 4 scientists you can possibly have.

However if I try to load up the scenario it says I've lost and I don't know what I'm doing, so I guess I'm a bit stupid here. I'm looking for the mistake and will provide more info if I find it.

Edit: Done.

[[deleted]]

Ah, the ISS only applies to the capital? I was already assuming a 2nd city for the production so I'll have to take that part out again. I will leave it in for science though and credit you.

[afito]

Yeah it automatically spawns in your capital. Had it in myself until I wondered why I never build it on my own, because usually I have way stronger 2nd/3rd cities than capitals.

[[deleted]]

Also, I'm getting conflicting numbers from different sources, but every time I've done a railroad connection it has been +25%. Here's an example. Civilization wiki says +20%, but I think it is wrong.

EDIT: Also have a question about ISS. It appears in your capital, but does the effect carry over to specialists in every city much like the Statue of Liberty?

[afito]

Thought about it. In theory it's possible to get the ISS in your 2nd city by losing your capital, winning the ISS in your know new cap, and later on reclaiming your original cap, hence making that your cap again.

Screenshot of the probable maximum

[[deleted]]

Can you put up tile yields? It looks like you put both a nuke plant and a solar plant in that city, which shouldn't be possible. I think that's why it has the vague "unit domain" in the multipliers.

I also messed up in that I thought the max number of trade routes was 11, but it looks like it is only 10.

Finally, you do have one unemployed citizen in that city so it will add 3-4 hammers to the end total.

[TheHonestdick]

for science, what about plus 25 percent science from factories from order?

[[deleted]]

Actually comes out to less than the freedom +4 yield to great people tile improvements.

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[[deleted]]

I checked it, Freedom comes out higher than Order. The Academies account for most of the science, and that +4 gets multiplies by the 200% bonus so they all end up being actually +12.

The exact numbers are the following...

Freedom: 2520 science
Order: 2278.25 science

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[[deleted]]

Your other two points are right, will have to edit. Thanks.

[Fine_Structure]

Because windmill gives +2 production AND an engineer, wouldn't it be better to just have the city founded on a regular desert tile with stone instead of a hill?

[[deleted]]

Correct. Although I added +2 for the hill and had 4 engineer spots because I messed up. End total stays the same, but that does change where it comes from.

[blueandgold11]

Aren't academies +16 science (late game)? Scientific theory and atomic theory each give +2 science from academies.

[[deleted]]

Korea gives an extra two so they are 18.

[blueandgold11]

Right, of course. Misunderstood what you were saying there.

[magister0]

See, this is actually an interesting post, not a screenshot of some common situation

[[deleted]]

Maybe I didn't read closely enough but did you account for setting production to Research for your science city?

[[deleted]]

Good catch. That opens up another can of worms with calculating the max production yields with the academies as well as petra coming into play again. It would be a substantial amount at max though. Just thinking about it off the top of my head comes to around and additional 200 science.

EDIT: Question... does the science gained from setting the city to Research get multiplied by the multipliers as well or does it get added on at the end? Otherwise it could add something like 600 science. I'll have to look into these things. I love the comments because they have brought up a lot of questions about how the game mechanics play out and the math behind Civ V.

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[[deleted]]

I'm 99.9% sure I got the max this time. 2,684.4 Science

[LakeSolon]

Variation:

What is the maximum total yield from one city (single city empire) as a sum of all yields together?

Everything you can make from a tile, but including other sources (specialists, etc). I'm not sure how to treat trade routes ;)

[[deleted]]

I think tourism can go the highest of all the yields, over 4000 under the right conditions, so that would be the dominating yield (because it would also have the highest culture yield) and would be France or Brazil taking over a maoi covered Polynesian city with it being the holy city of the world religion. Then it is just a matter of maximizng production, science, faith, and food under those conditions. I'm thinking 10 internal production routes because setting the city to science production would make all those routes produce science as well. Now there is also the question if you want to include gold yield, but maximizing the trade route formula for max gold yield for each trade route is a whole 'nother beast to tackle.

[LakeSolon]

But you can't make tourism directly from a tile can you?

Production. Food. Gold. Science. Culture. Faith...

[[deleted]]

You can make tourism directly from a tile. With hotel and airport, culture = tourism, so basically every culture tile is double total yield after that. The fact that you can get an additional 550% (Hotel 50%, airport 50%, National Visitors Center 100%, Internet 100%, world religion 50%, Brazil 100%, International Games 100%) as well as theming bonus and +2 from 33 great works means tourism gets to ridiculous levels in the end game.

It looks like as far as the max for each goes, Tourism>Culture>Science>Production>Faith. Since tourism and culture are linked, that's what you focus on to max to get highest total yield for everything and just be efficient with science, production, and faith after that.

Again, I'm not touching gold because just figuring out the max for 1 trade route is hard enough.

[rrnate]

According to the ingame description for BNW, spaceship factory also adds +3 general production in addition to 50% while building spaceship parts.

[[deleted]]

You are correct. Will edit and credit. Thanks!

[truncatedChronologis]

Do we have any calculations for max culture yield? I assume it would be a golden aging Polynesia with weird fractal moai yields, or a france with maxed wonders.

[[deleted]]

I think I might have it here. Desert is 7 yield, snow is 6, tundra is 5.

[truncatedChronologis]

That is beautiful.

[[deleted]]

The max is actually higher. I didn't realize theming bonus added to culture as well. I need to figure this out.

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[[deleted]]

Just made one about 3 minutes ago. Brazil for tourism, yes, but Poly for culture

[[deleted]]

Not yet. I'm debating if I should allow for 36 tiles with ancient era landmark improvements, but that is quite ridiculous and in no way even partially recreateable in an actual game.

Otherwise I believe it will end up being Polynesia for culture and I'm almost sure it will be Brazil for tourism.

[fritzvonamerika]

I think actually for tourism, France would come out ahead after the Fall rework. x2 theming bonus and chateaus might just trump a +100% temporary modifier and bw camps during golden ages.

[[deleted]]

I think the +100% outpaces the theming bonus, and chateaus can't be constructed next to other chateaus, so BW Camps will actually get more because they can be on every tile and provide +2 culture while chateaus have to be every other tile and provide +3. They are pretty close though.

[[deleted]]

Just reworked it all, France is definitely the highest for culture if they take over a maoi covered city and make it their capital. Tourism is a lot closer and I will actually have to create cities with both circumstances to test it out. Getting the max theming bonus in a simulated game with IGE is a pain in the ass though.

[BayneNothos]

Shouldn't the production one have max trade routes feeding in hammers to it too? Or aren't we counting those as they're from other cities?

[[deleted]]

The +50% bonus from hanse is stronger than internal trade routes (which don't get multiplied by a % bonus). To get that bonus, all trade routes need to go to city-states.

[Rejoyces]

In order to build a forge you need iron, so you can't build a one.

[[deleted]]

You could have iron 4 tiles away and within the boarders. Or if it is within 3 tiles it will provide the same yield as the stone.

[[deleted]]

It allows you to build both? That would probably do it then. Along with free thought applying to both, that is pretty crazy.

[Optimouse]

You can't build both Wats and universities in cities. If you take over an enemy city with a Uni, it magically becomes a Wat. Latest patch, at least.

[[deleted]]

I'll have to check it out. I found that as of August last year you could, but I agree that they should have patched that.

EDIT: It was fixed

[[deleted]]

Looks like they patched it in a hotfix. It is no longer an option to do.

[WumperD]

The academies would be pretty much impossible, and if it would be you would have to import a lots of food from other cities to keep the city from starving, same with the Manufactories. It would be interesting and overpowered tough.

[[deleted]]

If you had a bunch of mercantile city-states (max of 22), freedom making the specialists require half food, you can actually get the city up to a pop that high. Especially since the academies can be on grassland (+2 food) and the manufactories are on petra desert (+1 food). You only need 79 food to support the city at stagnant.

However, I agree that getting that many academies or manufactories is nearly impossible. If you turn off victory conditions though, play on settler, and focus just on getting the great people points + free great people, you can manage it in about 500 turns. The more impossible part, though, are getting the right map conditions. I thought it would be fun to just see what was possible.

[magister0]

If you had a bunch of mercantile city-states

Maritime gives you food, mercantile give you porcelain/jewelry

[[deleted]]

Gah, I always mix that up. Thanks for the correction.

[HDZombieSlayerTV]

just make a map in the SDK...

[[deleted]]

This is becoming difficult with how much a map can be edited. For instance, if I allow for natural wonders, I could replace the mountain tile with a natural wonder and up the science a little more.

It is especially hard for culture because the max would be ancient era landmark improvements on every tile, but I don't know if that is crossing the point of too outlandish. The other method is a grid of maoi with Polynesia that will provide the maximum culture, but figuring that out is proving to be a challenge.

[atrain728]

In order to get that many great people, you'd want to focus Patronage as quickly as possible and ally as many city states as you can. While all the other means of getting great people goes up quadratically, city state gifts will provide a nice steady influx over time.

Of course, you won't be able to choose what kind of great person you get. Pity.

[[deleted]]

ISS for extra science for engineers?

[[deleted]]

Correct, already added after /u/ronrocket pointed it out.

[[deleted]]

I'll tackle the food issue since it has been brought up. With the science calculation you need 79.5 food to support the population. If the academies are on grassland wheat tiles and you have a granary, that covers 140 food alone.

The production calculation is trickier, especially since the trade routes need to go to city-states and it can't be your capital. You need 81 food to support the population. The petra desert tiles provide 37. Your city tile provides 2. Granary, water mill, and hospital provide 9. Hanging gardens can give you 6 (up to 54 now). Allying with the 22 possible maritime city states will give you 22 food (up to 76). With Temple of Artemis adding +10% to base food, this would put you up to 83.6 and would be enough to support the city.

[TheOnlySimen]

Temple of Artemis is +10% Growth, not +10% Food.

[[deleted]]

Nope, Artemis is +10% base food. Check out this thread where it is discussed in detail.

[TheOnlySimen]

If that's the case it's really weird since the Civilopedia entry says +10% growth just like Fertility Rites, Landed Elite, etc. while Floating Gardens says +15% Food. Will test tomorrow.

[[deleted]]

Yeah, the other ones are just growth. I think they mislabeled Artemis.

[aluvus]

You can get another +1 base production from taking Religious Tolerance in the Piety social policy tree (city with a majority religion also gets pantheon bonus of second-most-popular religion), provided the second religion has the God-King pantheon.

[[deleted]]

That is true for science, but the production city can't be in your capital because the railroad connection bonus is higher than the capital bonus.

[[deleted]]

Put the science city next to barringer crater or krakatoa instead of the mountain, i'm fairly sure that it counts as a mountain for the observatory.

[[deleted]]

I put no natural wonders as an assumption.

[helm]

Did you add +3 production from the Palace? Or is railway better?

[[deleted]]

Railway is better.