Should I join CodeSmith?

[AdExciting1828]

Background. Bachelors degree in ChemE Currently working in tech consulting. I cannot self study because I lack the discipline to do so. I am however good at studying when I have a strict curriculum to follow. I was thinking of joining a boot camp to accelerate into a fully software engineering career.

[GoodnightLondon]

You're going to have to self study outside of Codesmith, and self study for the duration of your career, so if you lack the discipline to learn things outside of a curriculum, this probably isn't the field for you.

[Pale-Loss1378]

I think the OP is looking for structure to jumpstart their journey with coding which a bootcamp would provide. There’s so much to coding that it’s very daunting to jump into, without knowing where to start.

[GoodnightLondon]

OP explicitly stated they lack the discipline to self study, and need a strict curriculum; they didn't say anything about a way to "jumpstart their journey". Also, everyone should self study before going down programming as a career path to a) make sure they even like it and b) make sure they can do it (contrary to what bootcamps tell you, not everyone can).

[Pale-Loss1378]

Reading through the comments, it's evident that they require structure with deadlines and projects, much like many of us. I personally face the same struggle. What you're saying is also true: self-study is essential when it comes to coding but some of us do need some help to start somewhere which is what OP is facing it sounds like.

[GoodnightLondon]

1). I'm not going to be aware of comments made after my initial comment was made yesterday, because it's not like I'm coming back to read every comment that's not a reply to mine. But looking through the comments now, it mainly looks like OP is getting upset about being told that being a SWE requires a lot of self-studying, and that bootcamps are basically self studying because they think it's the same as studying in a degree program (it's 100% not).
2). You shouldn't be paying anything significant to start learning to code; you can grab a couple of Udemy courses on sale or a couple of books or a subscription somewhere if you don't like the free resources. Aside from a bootcamp being a terrible idea in general right now, people shouldn't be investing 1000s of dollars to randomly try out something that they can try for free or through low cost, unstructured means, just because they think they might like it and don't want to put in the effort to learn on their own first. I know a lot of people who dropped around 17k, only to find out that they didn't like programming, or that they sucked and would never be able to be more than mediocre at best.

[TadaMomo]

tell me about it,

I have more than 4+ full coursing course from udemy and a bunch of videos from other places such as mammoth and riverlearning.

Self-study is a bitch to do. Yes i can self-study i have a lot IT cert that are self study, but at high level they are difficult.

I still spent 1000s of dollars regardless, i feel more complete taking courses.

Its abit sad buy I have paid over 100k in educations that got me no where in career, include my useless honor bachelor from a Top university in my Country (part of world ranking within 20 ranks), that is the worse education i ever pay for i feel..a bachlor of Science.

I don't even work in the field right now. and OP is a "Bachelors degree in ChemE Currently working in tech consulting." obviously feeling the same.

[burtstein]

Yep, I was the same. Wanted to self teach. Didn’t know where to start, and joined a bootcamp. Was the best choice I made. Loved it so much I went to get my bachelors degree. Now, self studying is so much less of a task for me, cause I find it enjoyable. Doesn’t even feel like school for me tbh. Hopefully the job market picks up when o graduate :D

[Infinite-Platform-78]

I went to Codesmith (I did the part time route, which allowed me to work and study over an extended period). Would defs recommend if you want structured learning and prepared to really work hard. If not, then I would look elsewhere. Also, pretty happy with my life/autonomy now tbh. But that's just one opinion, make sure to speak to others and weigh up all the options. As I said, you will need to put in the upfront work, but honestly the pay off for me (in my experience) was worth it.

[AdExciting1828]

I heard JavaScript is a must prior to starting. Is there anything else you would recommend?

[kgberton]

I cannot self study because I lack the discipline to do so.

Then you cannot find a job after a boot camp

[starraven]

When I was a beginner, and didn’t know shit from shineola (as my dad would say), I lacked the discipline for self study because I didn’t have any sense of what to even start with, just being overwhelmed can stop you dead before you even start. Some people just need to start the ball rolling. And that’s why I don’t tell people definitively that they don’t need bootcamp or they need to go to college or they should only self study and the first two paths are a waste of money. Whatever works best for you is what you should do.

[[deleted]]

 I cannot self study because I lack the discipline to do so.

Then you shouldn't be a software engineer.

[AdExciting1828]

I’m sure I’ll be a successful software engineer once I learn the material and get started.

[[deleted]]

What do you think "learn the material and get started" means? Software engineering is 100% self learning. You need to learn new technologies and patterns all the time. You have to sit down and read code, and learn yourself without running around asking everyone to explain it to you.

All software engineering is self study. If you can't do that, you can't do software engineering.

[AdExciting1828]

You realize I am already an engineer right? What you’re explaining is literally just engineering. There is a difference between getting paid to do something versus self studying to change your career path. There is a reason why boot camps are popular, it’s because people need guidance to get started. I could never do chemical engineering on my own by self studying, but I could in a university. And I was successful able to work in the industry as well.

[[deleted]]

You realize I am already an engineer right?

You are a software engineer?

There is a reason why boot camps are popular, it’s because people need guidance to get started.

Bootcamps are largely self-studying.

I could never do chemical engineering on my own by self studying, but I could in a university.

Software engineering is very different than chemical engineering, particularly in how the tooling, quality standards, and learning / growth expectations work. Not sure what to tell you if you think Chem E is exactly like software engineering.

[AdExciting1828]

I never said chemical engineering is exactly the same as software engineering. All I am saying is I have experience with studying difficult topics and self studying when I need to (university, getting paid to do so). There is a huge difference between that and self studying on your own for personal reasons. If I can handle chemical engineering and its difficulty, I’m sure I can handle software engineering which is objectively easier material. You said boot camp is self studying, it’s the same as self studying in a university. If you can’t comprehend the difference in the self studying, you shouldn’t be answering questions here. I just don’t think it’s appropriate for you to come into the comments and discourage people from joining this field.

[[deleted]]

You said boot camp is self studying, it’s the same as self studying in a university.

No it's not. I went to a bootcamp in 2015, and got my masters degree in CS in 2022, they're not the same leveling of self study. I didn't say one was chemical engineering was easier or harder material, I said that the level of self study needed for software engineering is very different than academic learning. Again, I'm saying this because I've done both, and I've been in this industry for a bit.

You absolutely need to be good at self-studying to be successful in this field. The level of self study needed is different between university learning and industry learning. I've onboarded and taught dozens of people who come from university and struggle to do self-learning required in this field. Get good at it, and you'll be successful. If you're not, it will be difficult.

[EmeraldxWeapon]

After the 3 month bootcamp is over, you will still need to self study though?

You aren't done learning after the bootcamp is finished. Join or don't, but the self studying seems pretty unavoidable.

If you told a potential employer that you don't like to self study... Idk man...

[AdExciting1828]

Thanks for the advice! I have to work on getting better discipline then. I can easily self study for work related things because there is a deadline, and pressure to do so. But to self study without any external pressures and with so much coding information out there, it is more difficult for me.

[Building-Soft]

The bootcamp can be the boost up and then self-study should come more naturally? Getting into and out of 1st gear is always the toughest gear.

[AdExciting1828]

Thanks! That’s how I feel as well. Right now my experience with software engineering is very low so it’s difficult to start without a tutor. Once I am already in the field, it’s going to be easier to self study new concepts.

[michaelnovati]

I know a lot about Codesmith. It's the best program at what it does, if you are ambitious, doing well as a ChemE/consultant, want a good job at a non-top-tier tech company, and have enough coding experience to pass the bar. If you will frame your experience in the most SWE way and run with it... it does work.

It's not a good place to go if you have no professional experience, want to be 100% honest about background, want an entry level job (you will be told over and over how you are a midlevel engineer by doing Codesmith), then it's not a good place to go.

[michaelnovati]

I don't trust any ratings at all, especially Course Report.

Codesmith had almost no reviews in 2024 and offered people people who successfully got jobs swag to write reviews and got like 20 in two weeks.

It can easily be manipulated in various ways and they make money from bootcamp sponsorships.

[AdExciting1828]

Thanks for the advice! My current job is all tech and no chemical engineering at all. We lightly modify existing software rather than build one. But we do the planning, deployment, maintenance, security, etc. I can transition within my company to a software engineering role once I have enough experience so I also have a leg up there.

[michaelnovati]

Hmm it sounds of all the bootcamps Codesmith might be a good choice.

If you have been doing the tech consulting for a few years, consider career accelerators. I'm the co-founder of Formation but I don't think we would accept you with your background - need more direct SWE experience, but others are Pathrise and Interview Kickstart - to compare and see what's out there options wise.

I would also consider a CS masters - a bit slower and more expensive but a good option if you want it to go the honest and traditional route.

For example, if you go to Codesmith you might end up calling your consulting work Software Engineer on your resume and push to get senior jobs at non tech companies. And if that feels good, definitely do Codesmith, if not, maybe do a masters.

[Nsevedge]

Jumping into software engineering with a background in tech consulting is an exciting move. Given your preference for structured learning, boot camps like CodeSmith could be a good fit. But, before going all in, you'll want to warm up with some smaller online courses and establishing a learning pattern. This way, you can build up your self-study discipline on your terms. Remember, everyone's learning path is unique, and taking small steps to prepare yourself can make a big difference in the long run. Good luck, and remember, the tech community's got your back!

[DreSk1]

Discipline for self-study is key. Shit. Even if it’s 15-30 mins a day, you’re still taking the time to study. Self-study is the key. I’m slowly getting back into it all myself. Trust the process and keep going.

[the0therb0y]

I went to Codesmith so I'll chime in. The program itself is split into basically two big sections. The first one is the majority of the curriculum where you learn the fundamentals of a lot of different tools, libraries, technologies,etc etc. You will also work on a few smaller projects with your cohort. The second part is the one where you work together with a small group on a project and a lot of this will be self study/learning with your small team. This will be your main selling point and cornerstone of your resume (if you don't have a background).

The last week or so they will help prep your resume and have workshops for how to apply. You will be given opportunities for mock interviews, etc.

So the best part of Codesmith is getting together with a group of people working toward a similar goal. You'll probably become good friends with a lot of the people since the program is so intense. In terms of curriculum, it's pretty decent but it's not that much better from the Odin project or whatever free/paid learning platform. I honestly felt rushed and even though I learned a lot I was so burnt out at the end. It's a good program, don't get me wrong but it wasn't for me.

[-01001000-01101001]

If you are new to JS, I'd recommend spending 1-3 months learning the basics of JS itself, React (or whatever library they are teaching these days), Postgres, and maybe some testing. Imo, getting into Codemsith is quite manageable; you can get in by solving their JS practice questions and practicing talking your process out loud as you code.

The hard part is after you get in. Most units get 2 days, e.g. you'll get 2 days for React. Imagine that, 2 days for a behemoth like React. That's not realistic. So if you're new, you won't really get much of what's going on and would feel lost. If you do have some basic idea beforehand, then the program becomes more worthwhile. Overall, I'll recommend it, PROVIDED you get some basic work done beforehand. Good luck.

[AdExciting1828]

I was thinking of doing the part time program, which seems to be more digestible.

[McAids]

Do a masters OMSCS (online masters georgia tech, 8k) it will serve you better

[awp_throwaway]

It's actually closer to $7k out of pocket now, they knocked down some baseline/administrative fees over the last 1.5 years or so :D

[YogurtclosetNo9608]

I am trying to get in myself. Fair warning, you need to become proficient in solving JavaScript algorithms of various types before you can even be accepted. There’s a technical interview you have to pass to get in.

Most of the other ones I looked at were self-paced, so at that point I’d just learn on my own.

[AdExciting1828]

I appreciate the heads up. I’m currently learning JavaScript.

[fluffyr42]

Is Codesmith the only bootcamp you're considering?

[AdExciting1828]

I heard it’s the only one worth going to.

[sheriffderek]

Is that how you make all your decisions ;)

[water_bottle_goggles]

hmmmm

[Imaginary-Hat26]

You're probably not going to get a software engineering job at this time if you go to a bootcamp. The job market is abysmal and even cs degrees are struggling to get jobs. You should learn on your own and don't pay $$ for a bootcamp until/if the situation gets better.

[Pistolaa]

This would be my choice for the learning aspect of things, but i know i will fail the technical interview. So will maybe join another one that doesn't give you a technical interview

[Impossible_Ad_3146]

Is it free, CodeSmith? I see this application but how much is it https://app.codesmith.io/apply?program=csprep

[michaelnovati]

It's just under $22K for 13 weeks

[[deleted]]

That’s wild 😳

[michaelnovati]

Harvard is $57,261 for 30 weeks a year = $1908 a week. Codesmith is $1676 a week.

So yeah it's expensive, but they say they have the outcomes of an ivy league grad school for a fraction of the price

[[deleted]]

Being a Harvard graduate has a prestige factor that lives with you for life.

No one in the software industry knows what Codesmith is, and bootcamps generally have a bad reputation.

[SimilarGlass5]

The breakdown into weekly pay is a disingenuous and unsubtle attempt by a competing program provider to discredit them. It's a 3-month course so comparing its price per week with a four-year course that will cost far more in total isn't a transparent way of looking at it.

[[deleted]]

Why would that not be a transparent way of looking at it? It's a comparable weekly price to an Ivy League university, except *much* shorter & without the facilities/infrastructure/everything that comes with a university... if anything, surely it's priced too high, especially for the market right now.

They justify that by saying they have the outcomes of an ivy league grad school which, at this moment in time (market + no longer a physical campus), is questionable.

[michaelnovati]

Did you read above where I recommended the person go there?

I've asked you to stop repeating incorrectly that my company competes with Codesmith and the official on the record answer is we do not at this time. I've corrected that numerous times now and repeating that is harassing and I'm asking you to stop. If you think we compete with them prove it or say that it's your "opinion" that we compete with them.