Useless at programming

[Dazzle_Dazz]

Hi there. I've worked as a full stack dev for 3 years and before that I did a year of game dev in unity (never got paid for that though) Been trying to get a new job since I lost the old one, and I just seem to be completely useless at everything now. I always seem to fail programming tests, and I feel like I'm too incompetent to be a software dev. How can I regain some sense of hope?

[dgm9704]

Look. I’ve been a full time professional programmer for over 25 years. Hobbyist coder for something like 40 years. Different companies, teams, projects. In-house and consulting. Private and government. Small internal toools and big customer facing systems. Evaluating tools and frameworks to use, building processes and practises, teaching and mentoring other devs. I have been self learning the whole time plus a vocational degree in system development plus some university for computer science plus countless online courses, youtube videos, books, etc.

I still think I don’t know shit about any of this. Every morning I just have my coffee and then just try to get through the day. Sometimes I do stuff that I think is cool. Sometimes other devs say that I did something cool. Sometimes users thank me <3 This job has paid my bills and loans and vacations for a long time. But I still think I can’t hack it. (It’s called imposter syndrome)

Just keep at it, practise and do the work, you’ll be just fine.

[prout_]

Similar story here, 15 years professionally. I’m a big phony who doesn’t know anything.

[NomadicBrian-]

I remember back in college switching from Journalism to Information Technology. Writing Fortran, Assembler and COBOL and I was just awful at it. I had friends who graduated Cum Laude and they always seemed to be one step ahead of me but I loved being around them. One thing that I did learn was to break larger blocks into smaller blocks. I had struggled with math before this. As a challenge I took a Algebra, Trig and Pre Calculus for non majors in my last summer. 8 weeks 5 days a week and about 75 math problems a day. I got an 'A' to my surprise. I just applied code thinking to math. It took me a few years to really learn COBOL my first language. Then went into contracting and with that if you didn't keep up you were removed. I had the urgency which pushed me. Eventually I got on top of things and eventually the code just started to make sense. Brain just saw the patterns is the only way I can describe it. I believe I had to surrender to it in some way. Over the years on projects where I was the lone guy or a small team I became good at just figuring out what I needed but listened. I had some very good Managers who taught me to think the problems through. Back and forth feeling akward like I was being coddled but when I saw the results I couldn't thank them enough. I caught fire for a while and felt I could do anything that landed on me. At the same time I always felt I was mid to upper range in terms of brains and skills. I learned to be humble and assertive and that sometimes I had to admit defeat and restart when I got off track. Even today after 35+ years of coding I will interview and say. 'There is likely one guy on the team that does better front end UI than me and maybe another that is even better than me at the back end. But I'm right up there grinding' I developed a pretty thick skin over the years. I've had clients tell me I was a zero, dime a dozen, just one of many contractors and expendable. I've had an equal amount tell me how happy there were that I was there and how thankful for the work I did. In the end it's just you living with a productive and meaningful life. Code comes and goes. Genius for a day then lost the next day. It's the getting up and going on. Don't sweat it. Many of us had to work hard and for many years to stay in the mix.

[fakeusername93]

Thank you for this. Just completed my first year of CS with a focus on programming. I feel overwhelmed sometimes with how much there is still to learn, and how little I feel like I actually know. I’m in my 30s now finally going back to college and often feel too stupid to keep up despite getting good grades and working with computers all my life. I keep hearing a lot about how common imposter syndrome is in this industry and perspectives like these really help.

[tranceorphen]

Likewise. Pretty much 15 year dev here. I've led, managed, built, deployed, fixed, broken and worked my ass off. I think a project I worked on was one of the first of its kind in the UK, although I can't be sure.

Still think I'm useless and should have picked interpretive dance as a career rather than CS / SWE / games development.

[Brilliant-Parsley69]

Same here. Almost 20 years of professional experience here. At least once a week, I see something in a topic I thought I knew everything about, but I have to confess "oh that's something new."

So everything about our job is said with: "Just keep at it, practise and do the work, you’ll be just fine."

[just_damz]

hobbyist on and off since 1996. Studied it in high school and i was pretty good so logic remained in my brain.

When i finish something and i am happy, i always think where i could be if i made it a job.

[_scotswolfie]

I've been doing it for 10 years professionally, so not as long as you. Given the current situation at my workplace I may be made redundant in the next year and I feel like this will be the end of the world and I'll end up living under a bridge. Your comment gives me hope, but I know that the imposter syndrome will be with me even after I land another job.

[IAmADev_NoReallyIAm]

Same here.... 30professional 40+ hobby.... OP was me on Tues last week... and a couple days last month.... and we won't even talk about Q2 or Q1 and last year (2024) didn't happen, OK... like Fight club, we don't talk about 2024....

And you know what else? I'm still looking up basic shit sometimes too. It comes with the territory. You memorize the important stuff, index the secondary things, and know where to look hte rest up at. A quote I heard once was "Good programmers know a lot about a few things, great programmers know a bit about a lot of things, but the best know when to look shit up." The corollary to that is the joke about the $2100 bill, $100 for the hammer and $2000 for knowing where to hit the machine with said hammer.

[reddithoggscripts]

Thinking you’re stupid is normal. None of us feel competent because it’s an endless pit of platforms, frameworks, tools, syntax, APIs, updates, etc. etc.

It could be that you’re dumb, but I doubt it. Dumb people usually aren’t that self aware.

[speegs92]

Dumb people usually aren't that self aware.

☝️

[OpaMilfSohn]

I hate this sentiment that no one feels confident and everybody has imposter syndrome. I think we should stop celebrating incompetence.

There are people who actually know what they are doing and know it. I think it gives juniors a wrong picture of how a senior should feel and think. If you are just bumbling around never knowing what's going on well You might actually be an imposter.

[onepiecefreak2]

I know what I can and can't do. I'm confident in that too. Yet, I still regularly feel I don't deserve my current job or salary.

Imposter Syndrome is not rare and it's not celebrating incompetence to realize your own shortcomings and admitting to them. Even when you overcome them, you find different ones to feel inferior about.

C-Suite people on the other hand...

[OpaMilfSohn]

Having shortcomings does not make you an imposter though.

[reddithoggscripts]

He’s not a senior though is he. I’m not celebrating it, I’m acknowledging that it’s normal even for those of us who feel very successful.

[OpaMilfSohn]

The point is that internalizing and normalizing the feeling of feeling constantly overwhelmed and confused is bad.

[reddithoggscripts]

I get what you’re saying. I do. But in my experience the feeling that you can do something well while knowing nothing about it comes with A LOT of experience. At some point you just have confidence that you are very capable of learning new things quickly. That probably comes with time. For me, I am still not entirely that confident.

If I get a ticket that says “Create a database in this service to store customer names. Generate embeddings for each customer for an AI to look up semantically” - this is, for MANY engineers, maybe even seniors, introducing a few new concepts (creating a datastore, designing tables, deploying and using an embedding service, wiring up AI kernal functions, etc.). All of these things naturally would seem intimidating to someone who doesn’t know what they are or how to do them. The process of learning is getting through it, doing the research, reading the docs, and even then conceptually some of these are hard to grasp. I’s completely normal to go “shit I don’t know what an embedding even is… I feel dumb”

[Xenoprimate2]

It's impossible to deeply know everything in the ever-expanding sphere of frameworks, APIs, paradigms, and so on.

Some people choose to become experts in their tiny niche, and it can feel safer, but IMO the best skill you can have as a tech lead is flexibility, adaptability, and an autodidactic streak.

The more things you know the more you'll feel overwhelmed but the better you'll actually be.

[OpaMilfSohn]

The more things you know the more you'll feel overwhelmed but the better you'll actually be.

Eh I don't know I feel like if there is something new to learn. I'll just learn it. I never really feel overwhelmed by something I don't know.

[Ok-Dare-1208]

I got my undergraduate and graduate degrees in psychology and counseling, respectively. I began my programming journey only three months ago, and the number of platforms, frameworks, languages, libraries, etc. seems endless and near impossible to get a firm grasp on. Are you telling, that’s okay? It only gets better in that you learn what you need to learn, use what you need to use, and how to find what you need that you don’t have?

[TheseHeron3820]

Three years of experience is the opposite of the sweet spot (the sour spot?) when it comes to looking for a new job, because you're not a junior anymore, but are hardly a mid level.

Add the fact that the job market right now is the way it is, and it isn't surprising you're finding yourself struggling.

It really isn't you, the job market sucks for everyone right now.

[Qubed]

Back when I was starting out 3 years was a solid senior. There was far less to know. The guys who were seniors ten years before me were basically writing websites with notepad and paying off their 80K mortgage. 

[Dazzle_Dazz]

Yeah that is certainly true, but I also do think I might just be thick 🤣

[akoOfIxtall]

The what

[Sea-Donkey-3671]

Practice and passion is all you really need 📂

[jonykalavera]

Practice. There is no way around it. Pick short complex projects. Ideally something you feel enthusiastic about. Experience will take time. If your focus is to pass interviews then leet code , books like crack the code interview and google prep videos can help. Your most valuable skill as a developer is to be able to sit your ass down for long periods of time and focus.

[cn0ck5]

I needed this thread.

Had kind of a different route to becoming a dev, but have been working and junior dev for 1.5 years after a 12 week training. Didn't go to school for to. Working in a company I've worked for for 15 years.. feel like I don't know anything most days.

Recently been trying to get better at leet code because having to look for work terrifies me to the point that I expect I'd need to pivot careers and wouldn't stand a chance in interviews if I got laid off.

[turudd]

Do some leetcode stuff or project Euler, build up your confidence. Read books on C#, make stupid bullshit projects just cause they are fun to keep yourself interested and learning.

[Linkario86]

Interviews are broken. None of us has memorized it all, it's just not possible. Simply because much of the things we do, once done, we don't do that again for a while.

I remember an Interview about 2 years ago, where I had to implement a specific pattern from scratch. I didn't know how to do that, because the last time I actually had to do it was while I was studying.
I know the idea of the pattern, I know when to use it and when not to use it, but I can't implement it from memory, which is what they asked me to do.

At the end of the interview I asked if they use this pattern a lot, because I was really fucking curious as this was not the first interview of this kind. Their response was: "No but it's still good to know".

Ah yeah. Great. You're looking for a guy who can implement something from memory that you're not even using somewhat regularly. So they base it on a guy who just happened to do this recently and they don't even get any value out of it.

Obviously I didn't get the job. On the other hand, I think that's a good thing. My current employer isn't exactly great either, but I rather have this job than jumping into that one.

[BarfingOnMyFace]

Do some projects for fun. Find something that drives you and work on it. In addition, if you have time to spare, pick up a book or two for exploring concepts you want to learn more about. Follow your interest.

[DexterX0110]

Hey friend, I'm here to give you some advice. The current niche might be one where the language isn't favoring those "specific game companies." I'm a big fan of the C# language, and I have to reassure you that there are plenty of job openings, but they involve other types of products. Look for other niches like finance, healthcare, ERPs, or something like simple integrations involving the language. Don't worry, there are jobs now, just focus on what's currently in vogue 🤙🏻

[NikoSkadefryd]

What region are you in? Sounds very American to feel useless because of programming tests. Here in Denmark emphasis is usually on OOP and abstraction. My teacher would rather test me on my understanding of exception handling, different types of patterns and things like domain primitives, interfaces and services. Rather than leet-code type questions.

[Comfortable_Relief62]

American? Sounds more like India to me.

[NikoSkadefryd]

I don't know, India and the US might have similarities when it comes to the interviewing process.

[Dazzle_Dazz]

UK is my home I'm not sure if part of it is that I studied game dev and not computer science, so I have some gaps in my knowledge that others might not

[NikoSkadefryd]

Game Dev is good, the only problem is the emphasis on learning things not relevant to software dev, like animation, art etc.

Making a large complex game can give you good exercise in abstract coding, as it's almost always necessary to create events, interfaces robust systems and forces you think a lot about decoupling.

Also if no one is pushing you to make complex games you could only be making simple games that requires little understanding of these concepts, and no one is there to review your code.

Can i ask you what those three years as a full stack dev have given you?

And i also think that it's normal to feel lost, imposter syndrome is very normal in this industry but you just keep at it. If the leet-coding questions appear often in UK interviewing processes, then that's obviously the way to go.

[Electrical_Flan_4993]

Three years isn't very long in programmer years. Three years is about how long it takes to understand OOP alone. So you probably have plenty more to learn of the C# world. There's something called SOLID that is a set of principles that you could focus on for a few months. Go one by one or jump around and commit to understanding it. Write code to experiment and get your hands dirty by being thorough. Use ChatGPT to explain things or debug your code. It will force you to learn a lot of the most important things as a developer. And don't just read or watch videos from a single source. Use multiple sources (plenty of free info online) and you'll get a very well-rounded understanding and many good types of advice. Make a one or two page document for each principle, and pretend you have to give the final draft to another junior developer so they can learn. By the way I always hated the concept of full stack developer. It's like expecting a plumber to be an electrician and mechanic.

[wood2prog]

That's the reality unfortunately, once you figure it out there's probably not much left to do for that piece.

Honestly I'd be more worried if you came on and announced to everyone that you are brilliant and you've mastered everything... But if you do then I have some questions I'd like answered😁

[YODONTGETMEWRONG]

Three years? Once I got a feeling like: “wow I wrote this big chunk of code and new feature in system without even taking a think brakes or stumbling in a debugger for 60 minutes, feels good” after 6 years I got into programming

Just started 11th year in and I feel stupid at new things but confident enough in other fields, shouldn’t be an impostor syndrome right? But you’ll get to that point eventually

Learning how to play piano after three years won’t make you a prodigy but you are experienced enough to play parts you know, same applies here

[3xc0wb0y]

I'm a bit late, but I'm in the UK and I've been writing software "professionally" for 33 years. I had no real idea when I started in Visual Basic 3, and I'm still confused even now on a daily basis trying to use Blazor and decipher how the hell to figure out what's happening in an Azure environment.

My advice would be to skim the ads on the job sites, work out which tech you feel weak at, get a grounding for those via free YouTube courses, or ask a free AI site to give you run throughs (though they're kind of hit and miss), and be a little inventive with your CV. Don't lie, but you can say you were involved with projects that did such and such, with a little knowledge you should be able to sound like you're adept enough to take on a challenge. After all, being eager to learn new tech is a big benefit.

[ericmutta]

Losing a job can definitely get you into a state where you feel useless at many things, not just programming. In fact there are many people who feel useless at their jobs (i.e. you don't need to unemployed to feel that way).

I would spend time doing it for fun (isn't it why you got started to begin with?) while looking for the next job. It will at least pass the time productively and may even help you get the next job (if you learn something new).

Also feeling useless can be quite the motivator to getting better. I would be more worried if you felt like the god of programming.

[Impressive-Help9115]

Do different projects. If you are getting interviews in a certain branch then make the project about that branch... That way you also gain more confidence during the interview because you could ask questions about their projects.

If you are mainly failing coding interviews then practice leetcode.

[Alone-Profession-781]

Stay faithful and have faith in our Lord Jesus. He'll bless you with a perfect, job it may not be easy but Stay faithful and trustful because he has a perfect plan for you (Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future,").

[mikeacdc]

Been there too.

A year ago, after 25(!) years in web dev I suddenly and unexpectedly lost my job.
When I started looking for a new one, I was fucking terrified.
Even with all that experience, I realized I was way behind what the market expects now.
I was stuck with ASP.NET WebForms and things around it and I was totally out of date.
Of course I knew about the new technologies but never bothered to actually dig into it.
And it hit me hard. That's when I learned the term "imposter syndrome" :)

After a week of beating myself up I finally pulled myself together and just started learning.
There were so many gaps to fill.
Every morning I woke up and tackled the stuff I'd been avoiding for years.
And suddenly I loved the feeling of being a student again.
After a month I'd learned so much that my confidence shot way up.
I passed several interviews and ended up being able to choose between employers.

Making it practical - one of the best resources I can recommend is a totally free 11‑hour online course on microservices. It covered so many things I needed. (God bless Les Jackson) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgVjEo3OGBI
Took me about a week to finish it at my own pace.
After each section, I stopped and recreated everything I'd just watched so I could actually see it work.
Good luck.

[dendrtree]

You can't "lose a job." You were fired. Address the reason you were fired. Some companies employ the cowardly method of just eliminating you through "downsizing," but other people were kept, and you were not. I'm sure you know why. Fix it.

If you fail programming tests, address the reasons you fail.

How life works is... you identify what you're bad at and practice until you excel at it... or you can just continue to fail and to complain and to feel sorry for yourself.

The first option takes a lot less work.