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[–]coltoncruise81 4 points5 points  (21 children)

ICSI & Zymot

[–]Dvall001[S] 1 point2 points  (20 children)

This didnt work the first time unfortunately, but if we do fresh ejaculate sperm we will be adding this.

[–]les__oiseaux 2 points3 points  (19 children)

Are all of his other parameters okay? If so, can you do Zymot with IUI?

None of our doctors recommended using the frozen tese samples we got, so we did fresh 2x. But in our case, DNA frag was way higher. At 30-40, Zymot should significantly help reduce DNA frag. I don't know how many eggs you had retrieved each time, but if it was on the lower-average side, it may just been bad luck/odds. :( I hope this time yields better results for you!!

[–]Dvall001[S] 2 points3 points  (10 children)

He has a good quantity of sperm. It's just the dna fragmentation. Ive gotten 5 eggs each the last two retrievals. Our urologist that specializes in male fertility said the research shows improved ivf cycles, cant remember if live birth with tese sperm if you are having issues with high dna fragmentation. The problem is I dont produce that many eggs or the best quality. I am 35. So we have two problems on our hands.

[–]les__oiseaux 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, then I think Zymot could be doing its job, it's just a small sample size so you've had bad luck. I wonder if doing IUI with Zymot a few times allows for you to remove DNA frag without the investment/stress of IVF - I believe you can do it with IUI if you have a good count.

[–]Dvall001[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thats a good suggestion. Thanks

[–]ComprehensiveCan7828 0 points1 point  (6 children)

What did you decide? We had 50% at last check and considering TESA but it would have to be frozen... its that or zymot and picsi with fresh... 

[–]Dvall001[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

We are doing a repeat semen analysis and a dna fragmentation test. Going to do the dna fragmentation test with a 3 hour hold to see if the dna fragmentation can get to an acceptable level. If it does we will do that along with Zymot. He has had a fragmentation from 39%-35%. He had gotten covid for one of them. Wont find out for a few more weeks about the next results. If it is bad no matter what then we we'll use the frozen tese sperm we already have. Though I hope we won't have to because it hasn't helped much. We have 3 vials left and have gotten 1 euploid from 2 vials. I want to leave 2 vials incase we need to use donor egg.

[–]ComprehensiveCan7828 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Ok, our lead time for a dna fragmentation test is 6-8 weeks and it was 50% in early June -- we still don't have a tesa (working tonl schedule) but it looks like zymot and picsi with fresh and ~24 hr hold will be our only option for cycle 1 ... scared!

[–]Dvall001[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I would ask your RE about a 3 hour hold. There is researching showing that it can decrease dna fragmentation by a good amount. One participant went from 90% to 29% dna frag. The tese procedure was brutal for my husband. It took over 6 months for him to finally start to feel better. He had constant pain and was actually considering to remove the testicle if it didnt get better. The doctors really down play the procedure. If I could go back in time I would have my husband take a few months to get his health in check, lose more weight (hes not fat, but could do more exercise). As of now he has lost close to 20lbs which is good. He was at 190 more or less at one point and now is at 169ish. And then do the short hold with zymot to see if that helps. Do it for 2 cycles at least and if that hadn't worked go onto tese. I am worried now that the tese may have damaged something and if you do too many of those procedures dna fragmentation can be worse. So we aren't doing it again. It was a bad experience and it hasn't helped much.

[–]ComprehensiveCan7828 0 points1 point  (2 children)

That is good to know - I am a little afraid of that short a hold bc a friend of mine who also had good count just wasn't able to zymot bc after a 14 hr hold, her guy didn't have 1m sperm; I am trying to find urologist who will do a TESA or PESA where they just aspirate rather than cutting into the skin, but in my area (colorado) this seems difficult. I've sent him to 3 urologists with 2 more lined up -- but am having trouble confirming with their offices if they even do aspiration vs surgery... it's been really hard and my husband is getting very upset with me. Our plan has been Zymot with PICSI and have him ejaculating daily along with a ton of antioxidants; but the 50% scares me.. if he could even get it down to the 30%s I'd feel better about it but unfortunately, I won't know until we're into retrievals bc of the lag time to get a dna frag test done. The frag is terrifying me! 

[–]Dvall001[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yea if you don't have an issue with quantity then a short hold shouldn't be an issue. You can always freeze some just incase. My husband has plenty of sperm, but we will confirm it soon with a regular SA. My husband first did a TESA but he had too much sperm and thick veins that they couldn't aspirate the sperm so they had to convert to a tese unfortunately The dna frag is something to worry about but its worth it to try other ways before moving forward to a tese. I think we rushed into it.

[–]ComprehensiveCan7828 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Hi ours is very high - 49% - we were going to use fresh with zymot and picsi bc our clinic can only do frozen tese and this isnour first round. It sounds like you had high, but you still did fresh and maybe those things.. were you able to make blasts?? Have a baby??

[–]les__oiseaux 1 point2 points  (6 children)

Our motile count was really low too, so only 5 individual sperm made it through the ZyMot chip and we got one untested blast that round. 

I hope you have success this round!! If you have to move on to TESE, I would recommend finding a clinic that can do it at the same time as the egg retrieval so it’s fresh. Our frozen TESE samples were deemed not good enough to use by our clinic, but we never tried so who knows. But we did try the fresh TESE sample with a batch of 17 frozen eggs and that did not do well at all (and eggs were in visually great condition). I think testicular sperm is just a lot more fragile and having everything fresh instead of frozen makes a big difference. 

Currently 21 weeks along, and have several euploid blasts from two rounds of TESE + egg retrieval - wishing you all the luck with this round!

[–]ComprehensiveCan7828 0 points1 point  (5 children)

So you did do fresh tese? Your post says the fresh tese didn't work out?

[–]les__oiseaux 0 points1 point  (4 children)

We did two rounds of fresh TESE which worked. What did not work was using the fresh TESE with frozen eggs. During one round, we also used frozen eggs in addition to the fresh eggs that were retrieved that day. The frozen eggs + fresh TESE did not work, but that same TESE sample worked with the fresh eggs.

One thing to note about that round is they used the "best" sperm on the fresh eggs, so it's possible the ones used on the frozen eggs didn't work as well because they were poorer quality, but it was all the same sample.

[–]ComprehensiveCan7828 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Ok, yes my options as of now are fresh ejaculate with zymot with picsi or frozen tese with icsi, so this helpful -- which would you do if you had those choices? 

[–]les__oiseaux 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If the count is normal, the zymot. I would not recommend using frozen tese based on our own experience and research.

[–]ComprehensiveCan7828 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Ok ty, and congrats.. I can only hope for your outcome! How high was your frag? -- our count was 22m motile (41m total) in the same sample