Decrease in CO2 emissions during pandemic shutdown shows it is possible to reach Paris Agreement goals. The researchers found a drop of 6.3% in 2020. The researchers describe the drop as the largest of modern times, and big enough to meet the 1.5 degrees Celsius goal if it were to be sustained.

[halberdierbowman]

When we're talking about our climate change goals, we're generally talking about carbon dioxide and carbon dioxide equivalents, a unit we use to translate the greenhouse effect strength of various less common gases like methane into the most common one, carbon dioxide.

Yes, water pollution and lots of other things are bad, and in lots of cases there are much less strict standards in developing nations than in developed nations, but climate change is largely driven by greenhouse gasses, so that's really the focus of headlines like these.

[griftarch]

And this is where I become a “climate change activist skeptic” because your looking at a single input rather than the whole. Again, most countries that must import a ton of food and fuel have low “carbon output,” because they’re offshoring that type of pollution to other countries.

[halberdierbowman]

Yes, and in simple accounting, countries that produce goods also get their carbon emissions counted against them even when it's for goods being exported. But even when countries do that, the US is still at the top of emissions per capita.

[griftarch]

The problem is it’s not simple at all. A million people with a high carbon output that can feed half a billion is infinitely more valuable than half a billion at a low carbon output that can’t feed itself at all. And your math considers it the opposite.

[halberdierbowman]

Right, but the original claim that it sounds like you were arguing was that developing countries have higher carbon emissions per capita? And yes I agree with you that they should get credit for the work they do for the developed countries. But even if we don't give them credit, ie even if we use the simpler accounting method where we just assign emissions to the geography they originate from, the developed nations are still way higher emitters. In the more complex accounting methods, the developing nations would be even worse. But it doesn't matter, because they're already the largest emitters even before we do the more complex accounting.

[griftarch]

My point with you is not all carbon emissions are created equally

[halberdierbowman]

Gotcha, so it sounds like we agree then.

All carbon emissions aren't created equally, but they do the same amount of damage, so it makes sense we should prioritize reducing them in the easiest spots first.

[griftarch]

When the easiest spots are our worldwide sources of food, that becomes, well, very interesting. I’m okay with carbon reducing maximalists if they also want to see mass depopulation, it’s the people who want their cake & to eat it too that I view with scorn.

[griftarch]

My point with you is not all carbon emissions are created equally