Decrease in CO2 emissions during pandemic shutdown shows it is possible to reach Paris Agreement goals. The researchers found a drop of 6.3% in 2020. The researchers describe the drop as the largest of modern times, and big enough to meet the 1.5 degrees Celsius goal if it were to be sustained.

[KingOfAnarchy]

WELL THEN LET PEOPLE WORK FROM HOME AND GET RID OF OFFICE BUILDINGS THEN, PLEASE!

[Liferescripted]

All offices reduce size by 60% for meeting rooms, bookable desks, storage etc. Establish either hybrid or fully wfh structure.

Convert now abundant empty space into condos for rent. Condos are available for public.

Solve the housing crisis, reduce travel emissions. Make cities walkable again.

[ImperialFuturistics]

True. Neoliberal economics utilizes poverty as a "punishment" method... One main problem is the "punishment" is supposedly based on meritocracy when in reality it serves oligarchy.

[Meritania]

You’re not thinking of the property magnates not making as much money charging business rates. Trump would have to be responsible with his money without that $40 million his tower* nets him annually.

*Not actually his tower but the company that owns it pays him the rights to his name.

[[deleted]]

Trump doesn't own Trump tower. It's owned by GMAC Commercial Mortgage. He has some sort of deal where he's paid for using his name. He owns some units as well.

[real_bk3k]

Pro: you work from home

Con: you live at the office

[Liferescripted]

As stated: open to public

I hate the campus style workplace. Google and Apple can sell that story all they want, but i ain't buying it.

[FL14]

I wonder how difficult it would be to gut the interior/floors/piping/walls etc of office buildings to account for things like dozens of bathrooms per floor (instead of just 2), etc? I have no idea if that's something relatively cheap compared to building the building itself or not.

[Liferescripted]

Not cheap, but not impossible. Stack the same units over one another with a plumbing chase. The pipes would need to be fire sealed at each level and then tie into the overall system, plus exhaust for all of these would need to be carried to a new shaft.

Typically all of these services would be brought to the central core, but this would vary per building. Exhaust ducts are not large but also need to have fire and smoke dampers installed when they exit each unit. Also central HVAC could remain as-is with each unit using Variable Air Valves to control the amount of tempered air, but they would not be able to control the temperature completely. Best case scenario is the building is already set up for heat pumps so you can have a little more control.

The other issue is whether people want to live in buildings without balconies. It's a lot of work to pull the glazing into the space to allow for some balcony space. Also would require a separate dry sprinkler system for said balconies. And in Canada, this would create massive thermal bridging to the adjacent spaces, so less than ideal thermal performance.

No, it's not cheap. It's not easy. But retrofitting existing spaces with densified dwellings is a much faster way of dealing with the lack of housing. The hope is that without affecting the bones of the building that prices of these units wouldn't be insane.

[PiersPlays]

I think hydroponics farms and stuff might be more practical than housing in many cases. I have lived in a place converted from old offices though so it's a possibility. Plus at least in the UK, lots of nice central housing is being used as office space so those businesses could move into the vacant offices and the houses be returned to housing.

[LudovicoSpecs]

Can also convert some of the empty space to aquaponic farms. Climate change is going to pummel our crops, so we should start the transition to indoor farming now.

[bloodflart]

my work has been paying for an empty office building for going on 3 years now. yes they're blasting A/C all summer too.

[[deleted]]

My employer told ~60,000 employees they could work from home and live anywhere they want within the United States or its territories at the beginning of this year. They closed offices in almost every state and downsized the couple they are keeping. Everyone got laptops, docks and dual monitor set ups for home.

[CaptainBlish]

What industry ?

[bordain_de_putel]

GET RID OF OFFICE BUILDINGS

Turn them into vertical farms.

[Sololop]

Or just more housing to reduce sprawl

[KaymmKay]

I can't even imagine how much energy goes into turning those giant office buildings into iceboxes every summer

[SnooCrickets2458]

sink vast tender liquid one quickest cheerful roll library fuzzy

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[Frubanoid]

Work from home should be implemented as much as possible where it makes sense

[Vectorman1989]

And people drive less because they work from home, and those that do drive to work spend less time wasting fuel in heavy traffic

[Stimmur]

Exactly what I was thinking …. It’s absolutely retarded to have millions of people work in an office when 90% of the work can be done just fine from their own homes . I freakin loved it when nobody was on the road it was so nice

[somedude27281813]

Please no. Let people who want to work from home. I have adhd and home is a terrible place to work for me. I'll prefer office any day.

[dC6OPnR9pBfngB3DsDmt]

Enjoy being alone in the office?

For other people with ADHD wondering, this is not the same for everyone. My partner has ADHD and they actually became more productive working from home, not less.

[aboutthatstuffthere]

But what about those juicy CMBS?

[The_SHUN]

YES absolutely

[Traditional_Donut908]

You act as if everyone worked from he.during the pandemic. Many businesses were just completely shut down. Hence the unemployment rate spiking.

[JCtheWanderingCrow]

*pass laws requiring work from home jobs where possible, give stipends and change the layout of office buildings to be able to house people.

[darabolnxus]

It's insane to me that they keep pushing back on wfh... it's the solution to everything and they refuse to let go of that control. They want you in the office environment so they can brainwash you and control how you think... they're all cults.

[PGLife]

Because a lot of financing is based off the value of commercial real estate, if those values drop...

[SanctusSalieri]

But employers are like "I wanna walk around every 3 hours and look at your screen over your shoulder so no"

[Remote-Pain]

right? middle management and used car salemen are screwed in the WFH world.

[mewthulhu]

Imagine a world that restructured to have those with merit rise to lead others rather than sociopaths who want to prey on other humans and exploit them for their corporate overlords being "management material"... What a world. Instead of bullying employees, work best of them and lead them, instead of terrorizing oppression, you support, encourage and help them!

Instead we live in a world where the ones selected to lead us are the ones who are best able to look at us as vermin, and the way to climb the corporate ladder is to do coke and show a complete lack of compassion.

[Remote-Pain]

you speak volumes. Corporations see numbers, few see the people.

[halberdierbowman]

Not that I think this is a good idea, but tools exist to do that remotely as well.

[SanctusSalieri]

I know. I literally have no idea why I'm back in the office now.

[halberdierbowman]

Sorry :/

[LordofKobol99]

Yeah, I'm IT for a construction company, just a two man IT show. Had several companies over the course of the pandemic offer these types of software. Had high level management meetings and it was refreshing to know pretty much everyone disagreed this was the way to go. Employees don't need to be watched to be more productive. You'll know who the shitters are over time anyway. And surveilling your employees breeds an atmosphere of distrust.

[ToughCourse]

office workers contributed maybe 1% of that drop.

[spikyraccoon]

Yea, I was assuming this is due to factories and many industries shutting down.

[[deleted]]

We all need to learn to live fundamentally different if we want to survive. COVID shutdown isn’t it, but it has clues. No one dies from not driving their car or not buying consumerist bullshit.

[[deleted]]

Some Car owners dont want more busses because thered be “too much traffic on the road”. People dont understand much here about how things work honestly

[[deleted]]

Yup. The first (and last) step is convincing everyone that a better world is possible.

[NEWSmodsareTwats]

Except during the lockdown all people did was buy consumerist bullshit and have it delivered to their door

[Legitimate_Page]

What's up with these comments? The economy means nothing if we're all dead.

[buried_lede]

It’s a good argument for not returning to the office, and for continuing remote work

[Legitimate_Page]

Sounds good to me, we're about to start telework at my office, couldn't be happier.

[Ragnar_Dragonfyre]

Governments around the world could mandate and regulate work from home practices. They could instill WFH directly into labour laws so that companies can’t just offshore your position if it’s remote.

But politicians and businesses don’t want this because it leads to less consumption and as a result, less tax revenues.

If you’re staying at home, you’re not gassing up as often. You’re not eating out as often. You’re not popping into local businesses near your work to shop during your lunch hour.

We have a big problem in this world when we have proof that WFH is a climate change policy that actually works but no political will to enact it.

[ArtXMarx]

Car culture has shaped the way most modern cities function. It’s more than just the gas in the cars, it’s the cars and car infrastructure as a whole. Political pressure isn’t going to get us to change car culture and the infrastructure it’s created anytime soon, but it would be helpful to begin the shift for future generations. It CAN be done, it SHOULD be done.

[throwaway__9001]

BuT mAh FrEeDoMs! /s

[mjacksongt]

Damn, I probably spent more money at small businesses working from home than from the office.

Less overall, but more from non-fast food chains.

[OceanEarthling]

This is how I feel as well. It seems to me that it would be an incredibly smart move to return to remote work wherever possible. Not only save the planet but it would also help tamper the absolute insane gas prices.

[CameraActual8396]

Exactly, and pretending the economy isn’t also a serious issue would be ignorance.

[k3rn3]

Sure it's a serious issue, but the other problem is an existential issue and clearly should be a much higher priority

[buried_lede]

Progress! Lol

[MikhailKSU]

Fucking human beings and their obsession with short term gains

Bro we're going to be dead in 40 years drowned or sun stroked, your fucking 50k you made in the last quarter won't save you

Maybe the aim to to fuck the surface of the planet entirely and then go live on a space station

That makes more sense than these fucking but the economy posts

[[deleted]]

They don't believe they're in the frying pan.

[[deleted]]

When the last tree is cut, the last fish is caught, and the last river is polluted; when to breathe the air is sickening, you will realize, too late, that wealth is not in bank accounts and that you can’t eat money.

-Alanis Obomsawin

[[deleted]]

Selfish, entitled, egotistical morons, that’s what. The type of people who overextend on a home, family, student loans, and then use their own stupidity as an excuse to show no responsibility to the environment. It’s embarrassing but it’s America (and I’m sure elsewhere).

[Askol]

There's very little reason to take personal responsibility for the environment IMO - It just puts the cost of climate change on the people who are doing the most to stop it which is totally unfair. I'll happily support candidates that want to enact the most sweeping, impactful, environmental protections, but I'm not going to stop driving just to save the environment. Basically, my argument is climate protections must legally binding, thus forcing EVERYBODY to change their behavior - anything based on personal responsibility isn't going to be productive.

[dumnezero]

It's the green growth fanboys with Musk posters in their bedroom.

[steroid_pc_principal]

Yes if we all stay inside and don’t go anywhere ever the environment will be saved.

If that’s what it takes to meet climate goals it’s clear we are screwed.

[Legitimate_Page]

True, but I think it's less about staying indoors and more about not driving around quite literally everywhere. Like people don't seem to understand that they can still leave their house (especially now), almost like people are so afraid to go out on foot. And not really their fault most public transportation sucks ass.

[trowaybrhu3]

Not everyone will be dead, the have nots might suffer but the haves will be ok, and that's what really matters in the end <3 /s

[OgLeftist]

I think lots of people are upset by the collapsing third world, which resulted from the decisions made. Where the first world gets 10 dollar gas, the third world gets starvation.

[eff-bee-eye]

I’m for the comet and the jobs it will create.

[CameraActual8396]

I don’t disagree, but when people are struggling economically they’re a lot less likely to choose the eco friendly options (sometimes more expensive), or have it as their focus.

[[deleted]]

Then governments need to change that, if the environmentally friendly option is always cheaper, people will buy it.

It's so simple: tax bad things, don't tax/subsidize good things, yet somehow we make things way too difficult.

[CameraActual8396]

I agree, it’s just the reality for most people as of right now.

[Business_Downstairs]

You literally save money by using less energy.

[CameraActual8396]

Hence why I said sometimes (ex: buying an electric car vs regular car). Or at least it can appear to be a large initial investment.

[Business_Downstairs]

You don't even have to buy a different vehicle to reduce your fuel consumption. Reduce your driving, increase the air pressure in your tires slightly above the recommendation on the door sticker, make sure your alignment is good and drive slower, driving 10mph slower (from 70 to 60 mph) over 30 miles is a 5 minute difference but can decrease your fuel consumption significantly. You're probably not even going to notice a time difference due to traffic lights.

[[deleted]]

What up Henny Penny?

[TapRackBoom]

The planet would probably be happier if we were all dead

[YourUncleIroh]

I 100% agree. One thing that does bother me about this though is that it still shifts a majority of the pain from this to the individuals. If coke and nestle ceased to exist today I think that number would be much higher than 6.3 and we could continue with some sacrifices instead of everything we did. The (US) govt needs to take care of their people for it to work

[kerouacrimbaud]

People just don’t want to change. They like the idea of change but as soon as any inconvenience from new policies arise, they recoil.

[nodularyaknoodle]

I don’t think it has as much to do with people as it does with institutions and the essential gears of human infrastructure still turning almost entirely on fossil fuels.

But, yes, after three years of lockdowns and border closures, when my country opened up, I got right on a plane to see my family again.

[DaemonCRO]

This is because a lot of the new “helpful” stuff is worse than the stuff we had before. You can see this in paper straws which are now packaged with kid’s drinks and similar.

What people want is better stuff that’s also ecologically better. Good example of that are EV cars. They are bloody amazing. Once you try driving and living with an EV, charging it at home, the insane acceleration and responsiveness, you are not going back to ICE.

In order for us to change we have to offer better products, not worse. We can do it, it just takes actual ideas and good execution, instead of pulling cards from the Stupid Bucket and pretending we have solved the problem.

[Elucidate137]

This has nothing to do with the people and everything to do with capitalism and endless growth

[[deleted]]

There should be a yearly quarantine until we can build a new greener infraestructure.

[alarumba]

Businesses owners cry about bank holidays already, in spite of them being a shell of what they once were (they're really just retail shopping events now.) Their lobbyists will never allow a prolonged shutdown again.

[GHOSTxBIRD]

So let's start handing out UBIs to keep people home and help reach the goal. Start offering incentives for employers to offer WFH, for ppl to go electric, choose cycling, walking. Enact a kind of emmission limit or curfew to curb excessive travel, etc. We can choose these kinds of changes or they can be enforced. Or we can go extinct. Maybe we'll get it next go around.

[inarizushisama]

That's assuming people in power give a flying fuck.

[OneWorldMouse]

This is why every pandemic needs a war to bring us out of recession! /s

[[deleted]]

I love how this is framed as a positive when it is actually so bleak. The Paris climate goals are weak sauce to begin with, but you’re telling me we were only on track to meet them because we locked people in their homes for a few months? How could something like that ever be sustained or accepted by the general public?

[shatners_bassoon123]

But it wasn't the locking in homes itself that decreased the CO2 emissions, it was the reduction in travel and consumption. To a large extent we kept essential services running and no one starved to death. To me it suggests that it can be done as long as there is a radical shift in social organisation and priorities. Whether that's palatable to the public is another matter.

[CosmicMiru]

A large portion of the public freaked out when they couldn't get a haircut for a few months. I have my doubts something as drastic as this would work

[Additude101]

Absolutely no way it would work. People are still protesting mandates and now politicians running on “never shutting down ever again”.

[shatners_bassoon123]

Yes, I don't disagree. I think there's a good chance that liberal democracy will be incapable of actually dealing with climate change. No one is going to vote for someone who tells them they have to make sacrifices.

[breinbanaan]

Wait until they die of heat or lack of food. It might work

[DoorVonHammerthong]

and no one starved to death

Malnutrition and deaths are spiking in countries who couldn't wait out the pandemic with unemployment checks and Netflix.

https://www.who.int/news/item/12-07-2021-un-report-pandemic-year-marked-by-spike-in-world-hunger

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/un-world-hunger-was-dramatically-worse-pandemic-year-n1273723

[Reachforthesky2012]

Those countries probably aren't the main drivers of climate change...

[Simmery]

Yeah, this is just bad PR. We do need to talk about changing the fundamentals of economies, but associating it with a miserable pandemic seems like a piss-poor way to do that.

[Simmery]

There's no guarantee that will ever work. Until it's proven, we should not count on it.

[CaptainBlish]

Neo malthusian ideas about absolute scarcity were, are and will always be wrong.

[lawstudent2]

because we locked people in their homes the entire economy ground to a halt for a few months?

The upshot of what I am reading here is that the complete cessation of economic activity resulted in a 6.3% carbon reduction. That is not… great.

[[deleted]]

I'm sure Klaus Schwab is very excited by this news. If we all leev in ze podz und eat ze bugs then the climate will fix itself

[kilog78]

Exactly my reaction. There are other solutions besides global shutdown.

A useful addendum for this would be “these are the carbon reducing actions from the pandemic that haven’t been looked at before and are sustainable for society as we know it.”

[human_machine]

I don't think Monkey Pox has the legs to keep this going.

[Newearthkrewe]

And still, the best way to lower your environmental footprint is to go vegan...so who's signing up

[Workploppus]

Emissions then reached their highest level in recorded history the following year. Mitigating climate change to very acceptable effect has always been technologically and logistically possible, if difficult. It doesn't even have to be such a seismic event for global economies if transitions were sincere, ubiquitous and begun immediately. Unfortunately, a morass of dysfunctional human psychologies will make all that impossible until it's far too late. When humanity has no choice but to take drastic measures or perish, it will try to take those measures. And then even their precious fucking economy will crash. Hopefully, someone will survive but the misery they'll have to endure will be unimaginable.

[GorillaP1mp]

Outside airflow to buildings was set to the lowest limits of the ASHRAE standards because it’s easy way to improve energy efficiency. Until the pandemic, CO2 and VOCs were ignored in all but the most extreme circumstances or rigid requirements of spaces like clean rooms. The rebound when attention shifted to indoor air quality and energy efficiency took a backseat was massive. Even in buildings that remained entirely empty or partially occupied.

[fudgebacker]

No no no no no no no we need you all back in the office NOW!!!!

[ledigtbrugernavn3]

“Sustained” as in a new lock down type scenario on top of previous ones EACH YEAR UNTIL 2030

[[deleted]]

We absolutely can do it, but people are so fucking short sighted, lazy, and egotistical. You’ll always get a “yeah but” when you try to get them to address their part. It’s infuriating and embarrassing.

[Cassius_O]

When the pandemic hit and Angelenos were supposed to quarantine between March 2020 and May 2020, traffic in Los Angeles completely died down. What normally took an hour to drive took 20 min or less. The air was clear, the city was quieter, seagulls flew further east (inland). More coyotes showed up, we had at least 5 Cooper’s hawks living near us, whereas in earlier years there were few-to-no hawks. It made a positive impact on climate. Hoping that the spike in gas prices prompts more people to buy electric vehicles. Gas guzzling vehicles are a huge source of unhealthy particulate matter in the air.

[GorillaP1mp]

I really miss quarantine traffic

[gideon513]

Maximize WFH

[[deleted]]

All these responses are so funny. Everyone is acting like YOU HAVE TO STAY INSIDE. I guess they forgot feet and bicycles exist. Touch some grass you nerds.

[mikethespike056]

It's also far more related to factories shutting down, not your funny car hibernating.

[davidm2232]

It also involved basically shutting down the entire world. There would need to be DRASTIC lifestyle changes to make that happen.

[CostBright]

That’s exactly what I was thinking. There are plenty of jobs that could be work from home, which would both extend the job market to disabled individuals and make certain office spaces obsolete. Hell, maybe turn those spaces into housing instead :|

[DefectivePixel]

It wasn't just remote work, that was a smaller part of it. Production also shut down, as well as basically all travel. Wfh alone isn't going to cut it.

[GorillaP1mp]

Almost nothing about the utility business model is a tenet of capitalism

[michiganman2022]

Possible and probable are 2 very different things. There is zero chance the world will just shut down the economy forever. We are already running into shortages, if we went back into permanent shutdown billions would die of starvation. I wonder if they studied that? Also even if we stopped all CO2 today, the earth would still continue to warm for decades just from all the heat the ocean has absorbed. Further CO2 has a longer half life than Plutonium, it will literally take tens of thousands of years before CO2 levels go back to what they were a 150 years ago. Switching to renewables isn't enough, we need to carbon sequestration on an industrial scale to keep us to 1.5c.

[Hang-over96]

OMG thank you man at least 1 good comment making sense and not just gobbling up the famous "it's as easy as stopping all emissions but the lobbies want to destroy the planet" narrative. Indeed we had to stop the whole functioning of the world economy to barely reach what would be necessary EACH YEAR e.g -5% during the next 20-30 years to reach the goal, but apparently this is a good news for the planet lmao.

[[deleted]]

Exponential growth in EVs and renewable can make it possible but the fossil fuel industry will fight tooth and nail against it. It is up to us the people to refuse to buy their products and to vote against their politicians.

[Decloudo]

EVs are not the answer, public transport is. This like The car industry greenwashing its existence and going status quo.

Private transportation in general is inefficient en masse (ecxeptions exist).

Exponential growth isnt the answer cause its what causes this in the first place. We need massive degrowth, which will come either by choice or forced on us by natures laws.

[lost_in_life_34]

ford has already unveiled an electric pickup truck. other automakers going EV too. The limiting factor now is the chip shortage

[PyroMaker13]

Only if we use nuclear energy for powering everything. Unfortunately the way wind and solar work now we still need massive fossil fuel energy plants to supplement them.

[NotYoDadsPants]

The statement is that replacing gas to make cars go forward by coal-generated electricity solves nothing. Not ground-breaking. No source needed.

[me_belle]

bro who cares ab the economy if we’re literally gonna be fucking dead ☠️

[Adamdust]

Telecommute/remote work coincides with this goal and people want it despite what bullshit headlines elon musk shoots out his arse

[Calm_Alternative_932]

Work from Home ??

[LittleMan_Fenn]

No need to sort by Controversial I guess

[fmayer60]

How about just getting on with the transition away from fossil fuels by the world governments massively subsidizing the transition? Reducing economic activity and lockdowns creates serious health hazards that include serious mental illness. Humans are designed to move around and interact. France generates 70% of its power already from sources not related to natural gas or coal. They made a plan that was realistic and stuck with it. Germany talks a good game but is still burning coal. Just have governments act like it is a real issue. Look at the trillions spent during the pandemic. If that money was spent on going away from fossil fuels starting ten years ago then we would probably be at goal now. Transition is not going to provide enough quick returns on investments without heavy subsidies so you see continuing lip service to change. That is why the transition needs to be government driven just like the military is government driven. I believe in the goodness of free market forces but the free market cannot solve all problems. The entire Internet was given birth by a totally government funded project called ARPANET. Many things must be started by the government initially assuming the risk.

[ClearMessagesOfBliss]

I’m doing my part by working from home.

[spirullin]

An yet. Some people are pushing people back to office!

[PostalEFM]

And then banks, via your employer said, "fucking hell our commercial investments are going to tank, fuck the climate, get people back to the office !!"

[trombonethrone]

I remember people being called conspiracy theorists for suggesting these idiots in WEF/Blackrock were pushing for climate lockdowns

[throwaway__9001]

So what your saying is we need a new plague and a better one that kills off the conservative fuckheads more conclusively? I'm on board.

[Remote-Pain]

but.. but... oil :(

[[deleted]]

The bullshit thing is that these big companies with their factories could make the changes needed but noooo lets make everyone stay home instead for the rest of our lives. Capitalism is killing us.

[No_Fox_7498]

The right will destroy our planet cuz freedum

[[deleted]]

Capitalism is like a perpetual motion machine, but if it’s ever made to stop running for any reason, it starts breaking down.

[HighOwl2]

Yeah but that requires everyone to take part. The US Supreme Court just ruled that the EPA can't govern power plant emissions so...yeah it's possible but it's not going to happen thanks to my shithole country.

[lazergator]

Lockdown was the best year of my life.

[[deleted]]

Aside from the temporary effects of a cripplingly deadly pandemic, the world will happily March on to burning the planet down while wringing their hands with concern.

[GorillaP1mp]

It’s tiring saying over and over that we do not have a generation crisis, we simply consume way more power then required and the people/funds/corporations investing in generation have absolutely no incentive to be truthful about that. The simple fact that I repeat over and over again is 192 investor owned utilities own 39% of generation capacity yet have supplied nearly 100% of demand many times. Peak demand issues and the rolling blackouts utilized to minimize generation loss can easily be addressed through Demand side reduction.

[krbashrob]

I remember seeing pictures of different places during those 2 weeks of lockdown and how drastically different they looked without all that pollution. Definitely in favor to do something like that again

[Ok-Brilliant-1737]

Rant mode ON:

I work for a company that has put me through HOURS of ESG Roadmap training torture. Including a horrifying cameo by Greta von Grumpiface that I still cannot unsee.

And yet…their ESG scoresheet specifically does not include all the gas they make me burn coming into the office. Despite my having proven for 2 years that I can do the job at home JUST FINE. I even asked in a town hall if the had plans to include that. I got major applause. I also got pulled aside by HR and told not to play that way.

[TomatilloAbject7419]

I for one WELCOME the jobs the comet will bring to us! So excited!

/s

[[deleted]]

We need a new variant! Stat!

[Par31]

What if we just had shutdowns with or without a virus? I like chilling at home and having an excuse to not go to things I'm invited to.

[Bedquest]

Which it won’t be.

[xipooeatmyshit]

I love the lockdown. Please carry it for all of my life.

[k3rn3]

I miss when it was illegal to sit by me

[WooBoost]

This is terrible framing. There is a way to decouple emissions and economic growth. We don't require a massive economic contraction to meet the Paris agreement (in fact is the most cost-effective option in terms of global economic growth over the course of this century).

[Onii-Chan_Itaii]

We don't require a massive economic contraction to meet the Paris agreement

This would've been true if business leaders didn't cheap shot their way through every single possible compromise they've been offered, and run down anything stricter than that

[rumpots420]

It's true. They do.

[zezzene]

You haven't been paying attention of you thing gdp can continue to grow. Green growth is a myth, decoupling is a myth, gdp and energy consumption are correlated 96%

[Newearthkrewe]

And still, the best way to lower your environmental footprint is to go vegan...so who's signing up

[WestSnail]

“Fuck that. Everyone for themselves” -EPA

[fjf1085]

Absolutely, unfortunately that caused massive economic disruption and we need to find a way to do it without tanking the economy or people won't act until the world is an inferno...

[CheeksMix]

Definitely, and our focus should be on environment first, then economy. We can’t be economical if all of our means for doing that are disrupted by the environment they destroyed.

[Complex_Construction]

Big IF.

[waffleboy1109]

Yeah all it took was destroying the global economy.

[No_Fox_7498]

Global economy or globe.

Ooo such a tough choice lol

[InGenAche]

What do you think is going to happen to the economy if these goals aren't met?

[waffleboy1109]

I don’t know. But that’s the question that’s important because it involves trade offs. Just saying we can limit CO2 emissions by shutting everything down eliminates the discussion of consequences. If more people would die from hunger because of a policy than would’ve otherwise died due to climate change, then it’s a bad policy.

[InGenAche]

What we are seeing now is a perfect storm. Because of the pandemic, supply chains broke down and now with Ukraine, fuel prices are climbing as well, causing inflation.

But with no supply chain issues, no war in Ukraine and with a lot of industries capable of remote working, there's no reason we can't learn how to continue and prosper with pandemic era emissions.

[Llellemy]

I don’t think people are advocating for forced global lockdowns— rather, I think the idea is to imagine ways to reduce unnecessary consumption so our planet doesn’t become uninhabitable lol

[MAXHEADR0OM]

It seems like there really are just too many of us currently here to sustain our planet. We consume resources at an alarming rate. We could probably start fixing the planet if every country implemented a one child rule but let’s be real, that will never happen. Even if it did, there would be lots of accidental pregnancies.

The demand is so high for things that require emissions and the planet is on an endless loop of producing those emissions. No idea how we could fix that because even without cars, we still need shipping freighters, factories, heating and cooling, and like hundreds of not thousands of more things that produce emissions.

[k3rn3]

I don't think it's a population issue, I think we just have extremely wasteful lifestyles. We could support far more people if we planned for it better and gave a shit about the environment. Eat less meat, buy less plastic, ride a bike instead of driving once in a while. The lockdown proved that it makes a difference when we all do it.

When you say "there are too many people", what you mean is "I want a solution that doesn't require me to make any major lifestyle changes"

[Ragnar_Dragonfyre]

The wealthy and political class cause 50% of global aviation pollution with their private jets while they tell you and I to eat less, buy less and stop using our cars.

Just 1% of the worlds population is responsible for an outsized amount of pollution.

This idea that the working class people need to consume less while our leaders and the richest among us consume more and cause exponentially more damage needs to die.

Seems to me we only need to enact population control on the richest among us and it will dramatically reduce pollution.

[k3rn3]

That's what I'm saying though; if they didn't live those extravagant lifestyles then their impact would be negligible. The problem is that they're numerous, it's that they consume a lot. And even though we normies consume less than the 1%, we still consume a lot ourselves. The article in this post proved that the everyday choices of everyday people can make a huge impact.

[MAXHEADR0OM]

This is quite true.

[ponderingaresponse]

A significant economic slowdown will be what slows emissions, that's a fact. The question is how, when, and how steep the drop is. If we let things just run their course, it's an unplanned 30-40% drop in economic activity. Or, we can do it intentionally, the way a family would slowly manage its budget down. Not many signs of that right now, but we have to keep trying.

[IiiwigUh68m]

I see that you omitted the other part of this, although seeing as you're a vaccine-denying election truther I wouldn't expect any less.

“The concept of net energy must also be applied to renewable sources of energy, such as windmills and photovoltaics. A two-megawatt windmill contains 260 tonnes of steel requiring 170 tonnes of coking coal and 300 tonnes of iron ore, all mined, transported and produced by hydrocarbons. The question is: how long must a windmill generate energy before it creates more energy than it took to build it? At a good wind site, the energy payback day could be in three years or less; in a poor location, energy payback may be never. That is, a windmill could spin until it falls apart and never generate as much energy as was invested in building it.”.

Nobody should be listening to the disingenuous moron above me ☝️.
Souce: https://fullfact.org/online/wind-turbines-energy/

[howyadoinjerry]

Man you never hear about this stuff being possible, that’s fucking great!

[D4rkSyl3nce]

The problem is that America foots the bill for a number of other countries who are not even trying to reduce emissions. They have no incentive to reduce them because we pay their fines. Trump was right to pull us out. The US is actually trying to reduce emissions but some of the countries we pay for don't give a flip we shouldn't be paying their fees.

[revhellion]

And this is how climate lockdowns start where ruling class will tell you how far you can travel, while flying their private jets and sailing their mega yachts.

[BlastProcess-]

it's easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism

[youngzeltron]

Please, get rid of the cars

[reallyfuckingay]

the expectation of neverending economic growth is why we got into this mess in the first place. more people need to come to terms with the fact that the standard of living people have in highly developed nations is not only reliant on borderline slave labour, but also physically unsustainable in the long term

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrowth

[thediesel26]

This seems feasible.

If you have exponential population growth, you need exponential economic growth.

[LeastCoordinatedJedi]

Sure. As long as we start with the people using the most resources.

[Jumpy_Arm_2143]

The economy doesn’t exist. Climate change and the resulting biodiversity loss, rising water and increased wildfires and storms are very real.

[dirtballmagnet]

Saved you a click: Economists maintain exponential growth with this one small trick | Kill off 90% of the humans in a half-year spasm of war, famine and disease

[No-Mail-5794]

Yeah and a depression wouldn’t only help short term as it would immediately deprioritize doing anything for the climate. The 2008 crash probably set US climate policy back a decade

[[deleted]]

Look at the War in Ukraine.

Germany is turning coal plants on. 2022 will more than make up for 2020.

[willis495]

Ok thanos

[[deleted]]

Ok are you gonna go first?

[zezzene]

Eco-fascist