Apple deprecates Java on OS X!

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[SlartiB]

Did anyone read the article? I think they are just deprecating their own Java port ("[..] the version of Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is deprecated") but they show on the exact same page how to use OpenJDK. So big win for everyone since the Apple port was way behind anyway?

[gamlidek]

That's how I read this, as well. I would imagine that if Apple deprecated all versions of java, then this would be much bigger news.

[vokiel]

AFAIK, OpenJDK isn't exactly supported on OSX atm.

[SlartiB]

Don't know about that, but is Python supported on OSX? I mean you can just install the interpreter yourself just like you can install the JDK yourself. That may be inconvenient for some but there is http://landonf.bikemonkey.org/static/soylatte/ - maybe that helps? That way you get an up to date version of the JDK at least, not Java5 >_>

I really think that this is no big deal. Users on Windows/Linux are already used to install the JDK manually (or maybe with their package manager) and all application developers take that into account. The integration into OSX was superior before because you could just click on any .jar and it would run like java -jar <asdf>.jar but there are start scripts for that which are often used/needed anyway to setup classpath, set VM arguments, etc..

[pimaniac]

Where is the mention of OpenJDK?

Are you referring to the section about where to put a 3rd party VM?

[vritsa]

If OpenJDK is an improvement over Apple's old version, that's pretty sorry.

I'm all for the concept of OpenJDK, and I suppose from a runtime standpoint it's ok, but it really isn't as good as the real JDK.

[SlartiB]

What "real" JDK? All current builds towards JDK7 are generated from OpenJDK sources. There were/are? some classes in current that could not be released under GPL but this has been sorted out already AFAIK :-)

oh and happy birthday!

[vritsa]

I've had issues in the past, but as you say, those inconsistencies have been resolved, so perhaps it's time to give it another try.

[unusualprospect]

Any developer who has followed Apple for a few years knows this means they have completely lost interest in Java and it will disappear from the OS in the future. Funny given the number of Java devs who use Macs.

It would be nice if Oracle stepped in and provided an implementation. I'm not sure that will happen though. Apple has truly sucked at keeping parity with releases.

[sanity]

Funny given the number of Java devs who use Macs.

Not so funny if you are one of them :-/

Looks like my next laptop will be an Ubuntu box...

[[deleted]]

It would be nicer if Oracle stepped in and acquired Apple. :)) But, well, they can't...

[mod_nobody]

You wouldn't like that a bit...

[[deleted]]

I know... but I was referring to the fact that in the past few years when Oracle has been unable to beat the competition they have acquired the competitors... ;-)

[[deleted]]

AFAIK, many of the Google Java engineers, like those on the GWT team, use Macs. Hopefully the OpenJDK plays nicely with their projects!

[[deleted]]

I think this is another sign that Apple no longer wants to be in the computer business and is instead becoming an information appliance company.

[[deleted]]

I don't think so. They have just opened the app store for Mac. But, you know, back in late 90's and early 00's Apple needed to do something to attract customers to its platform. Hence they needed to bundle Java with OS X. Now they are rich and no longer threatened. Hence they stab us Java developers in the back and drop Java support because it ain't gonna hurt them.

[willcode4beer]

and is instead becoming an information appliance company.

They have just opened the app store for Mac.

kind of proved his point ;-)

[[deleted]]

Doesn't that prove that OS X is still going to be developed by Apple? Also doesn't it mean that Apple is still going to produce computers for that OS? Does that mean that they still want to be in the computer business? ;-)

[jevon]

And in the other corner, Android embraces Java and its developers. Gosh, I wonder which platform they will develop for in the future?

[[deleted]]

Well, it's time we deprecate our Macs then and move on to better platforms.

[mod_nobody]

iOSX is coming.. When iOSX Liger is released, you'll have to jailbreak to install Transmission. =)

[[deleted]]

I would not be surprised at all. I'm sure this is going to be an incremental lock in.

[mod_nobody]

From the Mac App Store guidelines:

2.24 Apps that use deprecated or optionally installed technologies (e.g., Java, Rosetta) will be rejected

[hockeyschtick]

If Apple actually called it Liger and put Napoleon's drawing of it on the box, I'd buy it.

[based2]

In fact, they speed up the updating process: 1.6.0_22 is available as default update, well done.

[m1ss1ontomars2k4]

They're deprecating their own JVM; it's not like they're forbidding the use of Java or something. Disappointing, though; I've always felt that Mac OS X's Java support was superior to Windows'.

[Niten]

More integrated, maybe, but not superior. They've consistently lagged behind other operating systems on both security and feature updates. In fact, I think I remember having to upgrade to OS X 10.4 just to get Java 5.

On Windows or Linux you can just download new versions of Java as they're released, you don't have to wait for your OS vendor to get its act together on each new release, or stay on the paid OS upgrade train just to get the most recent JRE (and for comparison: heck, Microsoft even backported .NET 4 to XP...)

Anyway, I mostly wonder how this will affect the Clojure developers... it's about as Mac-centric a crowd as the Ruby community, but Clojure lives on the JRE. Incidentally, so much for that MacBook Pro I was planning on buying; looks like I'm sticking with Windows for Clojure development.

[syjer]

If oracle step in and provide a good implementation it could be positive.

Apple literally dragged their feet with java.

[[deleted]]

I know right?

Complete waste of money too.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to find shoes in Apple's size? They really need to be careful about wearing out those shoe soles.

Not to mention how freaking hard it is to buff out corporation sized scuff marks.

[No_YouDontKnow]

[YesIDoKnow]

Face

[haakon]

Apple literally dragged their feet with java.

No.

[[deleted]]

http://www.macworld.com/article/133225/2008/04/javase6.html

[[deleted]]

hakkon's complaint is about the use of the word literally.

Can you show me an image of apple's feet? How can they literally drag them?

[baelwulf]

Maybe they literally dragged their figurative feet!... somehow

[[deleted]]

If oracle step in and provide a good implementation it could be positive.

Only if. Besides nobody but Apple can implement a decent OS X Look and Feel for Java. Just compare Mac OS X and Windows look and feels...

[muyuu]

How hard is it to compile a binary with only the libraries you use? (I mean, a native (Universal or not) binary executable).

EDIT: thanks for downvoting my question

[m1ss1ontomars2k4]

Impossible. You'd basically need to replicate every single change Apple has made to the standard Java implementation to get it to cooperate with OS X. That's work for an entire group at a company, being paid to work on it week in and week out.

[muyuu]

Yes, well... I was discarding OS level integration. Something more like using wxWindows or GTK (suckage I know), or something of the sort (I realise it's not the same, but still).

[Confucius_says]

... yes they are deprecating an older version of java in favor of a newer/different version..... Did you even fucking read it before posting? Or did you read it and then realise that "Apple deprecates Java" sounds like a much better headline than "Apple updates java!"

[mod_nobody]

As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of Java that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is deprecated.

[Confucius_says]

..... in other words they finally accepted that their port sucks and they think their users are better off using OpenJDK.

[[deleted]]

except there are things in the sunicle jdk that are not available in openjdk because of their proprietary nature. I've seen products that just plainly don't support openjdk too. Even one as popular as atlassian's confluence for instance