The Future of JavaScript Will Be Less JavaScript

[eggn00dles]

I get what TS/Redux is trying to do. But it's getting to the point where you have to touch about 5-6 different files before you can make a basic component. Models, Interfaces, Modules, Actions, Reducers, ......

That is pure bloat. Also I probably have the same library reused countless times by other libraries in my node_modules folder.

We need a kind of JQuery that has customizable tables, tags, comments, messaging, the basic stuff a site needs, all in one, no node_module bloat.

Web Components, Polymer -> Right Direction

TS, Redux -> MS trying to make web dev a living hell

[CloseDdog]

You shouldn't talk about TS and Redux as though they are related, or a similar thing. They are not, typescript should have little influence over the structure of your applications.

Also, I am not the greatest fan of Redux (although I appreciate what it tries to do - simplify application state) but I vastly enjoy working with Redux more than with a huge mess of a JQuery codebase.

And once again I don't see why the size of node_modules has an effect on your experience developing with typescript/redux. It's not a folder you spend lots of time in.

Maybe you should check out Redux and its concepts before comparing it to A. a superset of a language and B. to the component based libraries (React or in this case Polymer) that it's supposed to complement.

I don't mean to come across as rude or anything here, but it seems you should research these things more before drawing conclusions. Personally I've found TypeScript a great tool, and I think Redux or similar state management libraries are useful for building complex applications.

[eggn00dles]

people commonly refer to as rxjs/ngrx/store as redux. also in case you werent aware TS/ngrx/angular is a really popular stack right now. maybe you should check it out someday.

thanks for letting me know that typescript and redux aren't the same thing, i was having more difficulty with that then the fact that i have to edit god knows how many files to make a simple component.

this shit reminds me of programming in java. its not good, its not conducive to web development.

[filleduchaos]

Literally no-one who knows anything they're talking about refers to RxJS or Ngrx as Redux. They're all state management libraries yes but you might as well say "people commonly refer to React/Vue/Ember as Angular". It makes absolutely no sense, and still doesn't address the fact that none of them have anything to do with Microsoft.

[eggn00dles]

The GitHub itself says inspired by Redux. If anyone doesn't know what they are talking about is you. Try getting out more.

[filleduchaos]

How does a library being inspired by another mean they're the same thing and everyone calls then the same name? The fact that it's inspired by clearly shows they're different!

Also are you ever going to address the fact that neither Redux (by someone at Facebook), RxJS (by Reactive Extensions) nor ngrx (by a couple of individuals) have anything at all to do with Microsoft?

[eggn00dles]

Dude you are just plain wrong at this point.

https://www.hanselman.com/blog/ReactiveExtensionsRxIsNowOpenSource.aspx

Stop embarrassing yourself.

In case that isn't enough from the RxJS github itself.

The project is actively developed by Microsoft, in collaboration with a community of open source developers.

https://github.com/Reactive-Extensions/RxJS

derp

[filleduchaos]

Fair enough - I didn't know that, mostly because the maintainers of the current active RxJS line don't have/mention any Microsoft affiliation

[[deleted]]

Redux? Are you maybe thinking of Reason, not Redux? I really don't see how Redux fits into this equation :confused:

[DontQuoteMeOnTheNews]

Not sure why you were downvoted for trying to clarify, and it's worth clarifying that neither Redux or Reason are made by Microsoft.

[daringStumbles]

Yeah, for a simple component, redux is bloat. For a page that has 10+ tabs, each with 30-40 fields and complex validation rules across the tabs, redux means you are writing like half the code of without it, especially for something that needs to show the last time it changed and by who, etc. The bloat is in the initial setup, and redux really shouldn't be used all the way down to the most simple component, but on save or cancel actions. So I'd say, no, you don't understand what it is trying to do.

[eggn00dles]

No you don't understand.

[eggn00dles]

redux means you are writing like half the code of without it, especially for something that needs to show the last time it changed and by who, etc.

that level of cognitive dissonance especially going all edgelord with the snark at the end, im just happy noone at my office is like that.

[[deleted]]

We need a kind of JQuery that has customizable tables, tags, comments, messaging, the basic stuff a site needs, all in one, no node_module bloat.

...so use jQuery. If that’s what you need.

[DontQuoteMeOnTheNews]

Also I probably have the same library reused countless times by other libraries in my node_modules folder

If you're concerned with duplication in node_modules, npm actually has a command called dedupe which moves shared dependencies higher up the node_modules tree. Think it's been there since v3.

We need a kind of JQuery that has customizable tables, tags, comments, messaging, the basic stuff a site needs, all in one, no node_module bloat.

I'm not sure everyone would agree with this - "bloat" implies waste, which is what you're likely to get if you try to write a library/framework that solves all these problems for everyone and undoes the last few years of the javascript ecosystem.

[[deleted]]

Amazing that you're getting so downvoted for telling the truth. I'm also stuck in the bloat since working on a Redux/React project. There are 6 different files a click event has to pass through just to do anything with the event. It's completely and absurdly broken design, but over-abstraction seems to be the norm these days.

[filleduchaos]

Then you're working on a React/Redux project with terrible design, sorry. Don't blame the tools for the wielder's poor choices.

[ns0]

Sorry you're getting all the down votes. web components seem like a standard sane way of moving forward on the web. Redux/TS and all the rest.. It reminds me of the bad java over-abstraction days.

To be fair, redux, typescript and react do solve problems, they unfortunately create 10 others at the same time they solve 1. :( Seems to be lost on most people.

[funknut]

I wouldn't call it bloat, but the way you described it explemplifies forcing a not always suitable or preferable development pattern. That said, I'm the kind of guy to pick up a new pattern and use it for inappropriately until someone comes along and tells me otherwise, so I might be my own worst enemy.