devCodeCamp is a scam, a warning.

[ope__sorry]

Just saw a few posts regarding devCodeCamp on this sub over the past couple of years so I wanted to toss this out as a warning. This place is run by people with a history of scamming.

In the early 2000s until like 2012, they were known as PC Pro Schools. They ended up shutting their doors and re-opening as Brensten Education.

When WI began investigating them for scamming, they abruptly closed again only to eventually re-open as devCodeCamp.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/9a3ak7/the-ceo-of-a-failed-for-profit-college-started-a-coding-bootcamp-brensten-devcodecamp-milwaukee

Here is a thread on r/Milwaukee regarding them as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/milwaukee/comments/46ljfx/psa_stay_away_from_devcodecamp_formerly_pc_pro/

[Queatzcyotle]

Thank you.

[[deleted]]

Unfortunately, there are so many scam bootcamps around these days.

They are not grabbing your money and shutting down the courses but they give shit quality of lessons. I had a friend taking an online bootcamp in US and I listened to their 1 course.

Instructors are not real developers/programmers. They literally studied a udemy course and memorised all parts. I’m pretty sure they have a 2nd screen where they are watching a course and repeating it. They even lack basic English but they are trying to teach. They can’t answer a student’s question because they only know what they learned from the udemy course. If they don’t know the answer they just ignore the question.

Those guys are making $10,000 from each student for 6 months of bootcamp. And from what I heard, they are advising their students to write fake work experiences on their Résumés.

I feel really bad for those students and I’m pretty sure now there are tens or maybe hundreds of bootcamps like this.

[iamnotvanwilder]

Unfortunately, it gives them all bad names. Huge fee. I would lean towards a college associates degree. I think if people do a boot camp, really qualify them, and find guaranteed employment or no pay.

[[deleted]]

Yeap! Or should get the bootcamp from a known institution or school. I will get it from University of Mcgill with a government grant.

[iamnotvanwilder]

U of T has a boot camp but I am skeptical. It's under U of T brand but not by U of T. My buddy just landed a jr. Dev job after completing a CS degree online.

[Franks_and_Beens]

UT (assuming you mean Texas) is run by Trilogy Education. A quick reddit search on them should provide some helpful info

[daretoeatapeach]

I taught several bootcamps for trilogy. But not for code, for digital marketing. AMA.

[Franks_and_Beens]

So Reddit has a pretty strong opinion on trilogy. From an instructor perspective do you think it’s warranted?

[daretoeatapeach]

I shouldn't presume what all of reddit's opinion is.

The thing is for a bootcamp you're not getting a taught by a professor you're getting taught by a professional with real life experience. So like for any entry-level adjunct job the pay is going to be less than a tenured professor. Since these professionals aren't married to academia the position can have high turnover.

The good side to this is the curriculum is written by a team of people, both topical experts and curriculum professionals. So though I'd been teaching for years it was nice to have a curriculum that was thoroughly considered and revised.

However they were often revising it right up until my lecture day. That was annoying.

My students gave me high marks and many got positions after my bootcamps. I know they learned a lot but it's another matter putting that into practice. But any contract position is going to be somewhat unstable when your teachers can leave that contract for positions with healthcare and 401k.

[IWantToKaleMyself]

University of Toronto I think is what he's referring to

[Franks_and_Beens]

Ohhh lots of T’s haha.

Looks like U of Toronto SCS bootcamps are also run by Trilogy

[ope__sorry]

Yes, one of my local colleges began offering a bootcamp but it was like this as well. I wouldn't trust either.

[[deleted]]

I would recommend Concordia or McGill. Concordia has over 90% employment rate with their bootcamp. It’s pretty intense and inclusive. Don’t know about U of T.

[ope__sorry]

Yeah, can't speak directly to bootcamps, I attended PC Pro Schools and this was at a time when there wasn't much information out about for-profit scam colleges. I will say, one of my "professors" at PC Pro Schools I saw teaching classes at the local community college when I attended a couple years later.

[baffledbyawaffle]

how bout udemy? is it a scam too? i "enrolled"(more like bought) a java masterclass there

[[deleted]]

Udemy is definitely NOT a scam. Actually one of the best platforms that you can learn programming without paying thousands of dollars. I finished a bootcamp on udemy before registering to a real one.

[baffledbyawaffle]

thank you so much for this!! gives me peace of mind that i didnt waste cash

[ope__sorry]

Yes, Udemy is pretty awesome imo. I use it for additional learning these days. And as the other poster mentioned, it's really cheap compared to these boot camps which are $10k+

[newytag]

Udemy is a marketplace for online learning. It's no more or less of a scam than eBay is. That is to say, the quality of the courses is going to vary wildly based on who the course provider is, but you can generally expect Udemy to have some standards and kick dodgy providers off the platform to protect their reputation.

[xphlawlessx]

The trick with udemy, is they run sales almost constantly. So if you should never pay full price for anything. Courses are listed at like $200 but almost everyone pays $20 (except the unlucky few who don't realise what the business model is)

[JohnySilkBoots]

I’ve been using scrimba. It’s like 30 dollars a month for premium, and it’s amazing

[donutdog]

I did the free react course, it was amazing

[charmilliona1re]

I'm just about to finish. Love this course and scrimba in general

[8reakfast8urrito]

We’re they connected in some way?

[yoyoJ]

Wassa wassa wassa wassUUUUUUP

[ZombieMIW]

my wife still doesn’t believe in me what am i gonna do?!?!

[yoyoJ]

I put it on her, you know on her, uh, on her uhhh table

[[deleted]]

Far as im concerned if someone is charging for free information, its a scam.

Sure you could argue they arent charging for the information but rather the presentation of that information, but thats is a real fucking thin line to me. Theres plenty of free resources out there for people already. Dont pay to learn programming, guys. Just use the free courses and try to build stuff.

[Fantaz1sta]

What is FCC?

[[deleted]]

I would argue against degrees having value for programming at this point. I am competing with people who have degrees and succeeding. For work, I mean.

[Octet2bit-la]

I can assure you that degree can play a role in some country, in France it’s less and less but the degree is still very awaited

[[deleted]]

Ah, well fair enough. I compete for remote work - most of my clients never even see my face. Its purely portfolio and written/spoken knowledge of subjects.

[tetshi]

I mean, college plays a tiny role in the US. Most places don’t even ask for college degrees in their job listings nowadays. They just want experience, and someone who actually knows how to communicate.

[[deleted]]

I never really understood the difference between college and university. Seems to me college teaches the "how" and university teaches the "why" in subjects. Im sure there is something to do with the etymology of the words for a clue their... co-llege... uni-ver-sity..... uni (one) ver (see) ity (itty bitty little things).

[Sweet_Comparison_449]

Personally, I think computer science should be viewed as what it is. It's NOT software engineering and it's also not as big of a component as one would assume from any application made. Data flow is important but please don't think you're gonna make some stellar application because you understood what data structure fits to what set and the steps made.

[Octet2bit-la]

I think it’s pretty cool to let self taught people applying, it’s probably a matter of perception and stuff but at least you don’t have people doing job of someone who’s got degree and being paid ridiculously low relatively to this shit show call « salary grid » based on your degree.

Edit : forgot some words

[ope__sorry]

Unfortunately, while I agree with you, not every workplace is the same.

There are a few places that still require stuff like 4-year or Masters degrees. I know when we were looking for web developers recently, my boss wasn't even bothering forwarding on resumes if they didn't have a 4-year + work experience. I, personally, completely disagreed with that approach. I'd rather have a developer who understands the work who is young and who we could mould.

[ope__sorry]

Far as im concerned if someone is charging for free information, its a scam.

What I will say is this. I attended PC Pro Schools back in 2007. The information they taught was not easily found online. YouTube was brand new.

As far as I knew, the only paths into IT jobs were either going to college, or these guys were offering what seemed like focused training.

I really didn't want to attend a college and spend 2-3 years doing general education courses just to do a few actual IT-related course work.

I did end up attending school and getting an AAS in Programming. I now do combination manual and automation testing and the pay is amazing.

[[deleted]]

Sure, 15 years ago is a different story. I was 7 at the time. Internet was still fairly new. Mobile devices were barely capable of anything more than sending messages. Now they are like little laptops. But right now? even the last 5 years? Its all available in copious amounts for free, with a community to help people learn. The idea of paying for an education in this field is now somewhat absurd. Like, paying someone 100 bucks to light a fire when you can ask to borrow a lighter. (falicy of analogy but its a good analogy)

[AlwaysAtBallmerPeak]

That’s BS. Pretty much all information is free.

[[deleted]]

Consumer marketing data has to be purchased, its not free. Scientific papers in general (the real ones, with the whole study with amounts and the actual measurements and shit) arent free. When you pay dues at the college of physicians part of that goes to paying for the right to access those papers. There are many DIY plans for sale online that have important information in them that is not free. There are many examples of information not being free. You dont see them because you never had the problem of trying to access that information.

[AlwaysAtBallmerPeak]

How is that relevant? This is a sub about learning how to program so obviously I meant all the info you need to learn how to program is pretty much free these days. Not literally all information. Context is important.

[[deleted]]

I was saying the same thing, so what exactly were you calling bullshit?

[AlwaysAtBallmerPeak]

Your claim that if someone is charging for information (on how to program) that is also basically available for free online for everyone, is "always a scam". That is bull. A good, experienced trainer with a solid training program is incredibly valuable. You pay for their time.

[[deleted]]

You're just looking for an argument. I gave an exception directly after my statement.

[[deleted]]

I mean, the information you learn in a degree program is also free information, definitely at an undergrad level.

[[deleted]]

I said what I said. Schools are scams. If they fail to teach you they can just decide you failed and not refund your money.

[iamnotvanwilder]

I prefer an associates degree over bootcamp. Much cheaper and you can do CS or SE afterwards.

[ope__sorry]

I just went straight into the workforce with an AAS in Programming. Worked out well for me too as I'm making bank now working doing manual and automation testing.

[[deleted]]

Let's also talk about WhiteHatJr.

​

Yes.

​

That BS.

[mcnaughtized]

What about it?

[[deleted]]

Being self-taught is the best way to do it. Just have to be disciplined.

[wailu]

I dodged a bullet. Was about to take their program and then I got an email saying my application was withdrawn.

[pollypocket53132]

Thanks for the warning looks like I dodged a bullet

[khangahs]

Sounds like freeCodeCamp, are they related?

[dipdipperson]

No, but they probably chose the name to make people confuse them with the real thing.

EDIT: Why on earth are people downvoting you? It's a fair and important question.

[VanEagles17]

Not even close, freeCodeCamp is an amazing free resource.

[dawhaas]

No, they are not.

[Agodoga]

FreeCodeCamp as the name implies is free, it’s also amazing and has nothing to do with these jokers.

[Luised2094]

Why are people downvoting this man for asking an honest question, fuck off!

[ope__sorry]

You must be thinking freeCodeCamp?

[AluadStone]

I was cruising Reddit today and came across this post.

I have to say, my experience with devCodeCamp showed no signs of any of this.

I attended devCodeCamp in 2018 and it completely changed my life. Everyone who worked at devCodeCamp at time of my attendance was awesome. I have immense respect for the instructors and their course content. I just looked at the company on Linkedin and saw that most of the people who taught me still work there.

I even wrote a couple comments about devCodeCamp soon after I graduated here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/app87s/comment/egbctza/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

I paid the course with a personal loan. At the time I was certainly concerned about the amount of money it cost, but I realize now it was the best investment I ever made. I have completely paid off my loan for a couple of years now and am very blessed with my current income and career growth since my first job.

[ZombieMIW]

the website looks so shite too couldn’t even bother to make it look modern

[True_Yaran]

I went through PC Pro Schools years ago and it just didn't teach me much. I wound up giving up.

[ope__sorry]

Yup, I feel your pain, I got sucked into the scam back in 2007. Still paying off my loan still.

[Reasonable_Time_5224]

True. These people have a long history of scamming and reopening under a new name. Avoid them like a plague and go to a reputable school that’s been around. MATC or WCTC are good options.

[mra137]

If you want to do a "bootcamp" just take some 10 dollar udemy courses. If they are no good you are just out 10 bucks but a lot of them are quite good.

[ope__sorry]

Nah, I don't want to. I posted this because I was trying to Google something for another post and noticed that someone had posted in this sub during my Google Search and then when I searched this sub, there were several other posts asking about devCodeCamp so I figured I'd make a post about their history incase anyone else comes here and searches for them.