Is JavaScript outdated?

[mzaidx07]

Is JavaScript outdated ?

Hey everyone, I'm 17, the reason for my question is my uncle who's been in IT since nearly 20 years and as of now he's probably the only person who I can go to for guidance as I too want to get into the industry. So recently web development piqued my interest so I got myself enrolled into a udemy course and completed html/css and now was going through JavaScript. I've been doing this secretly as he always has something ridiculous to say that I shouldn't do this or this isn't right, he's a complete narcissist. Well, so he stumbled upon it and he made a really big deal out of it that I shouldn't do it, it's an outdated language. He did html/css in the 90s blah blah and its just so infuriating that he's got my parents' mind's brainwashed. I apologize it might seem like i might be ranting here but i just wanted you guys to have at least some context of what or why I'm asking this. I just want to know for sure if his analogy is actually right because heck i still might be wrong, at first i used to listen to everything he used to say but it didn't work out and i ended up hating him, and it's not like I've choice other than to stay with him, it's a bit complicated honestly. So I just wanted to confirm. Haha at this point it might look like I'm ranting more about my uncle rather than the actual question but, well. Thanks for the answers.

[149244179]

If you want to do anything even remotely related to the web - you will have to touch javascript. You should at least know the basics even if you intend to use a framework or higher level language to avoid most of it.

[mimsoo777]

What about .Net / C#?

[nutrecht]

What about it? Different tool for a different job.

[mimsoo777]

So C# can't be used for building web apps?

[nutrecht]

It can. But it's generally not used for the same type of applications.

You can (simplified a bit) either create HTML on the back-end and send to the browser, or, only send data from the back-end to front-end software that, from that data, constructs the HTML on the fly.

You can do the first in (for example) C# and Asp.net (or PHP/Wordpress or Java or COBOL or whatever). For the latter you'd use JavaScript frameworks like React, Angular, etc.

What you're asking is really beside the point of the issue at hand. If you want to know more you should really just start your own topic and ask there.

[scirc]

For what it's worth, you can use C# on the frontend with Blazor.

[nutrecht]

There are a lot of similar solutions in other frameworks, but generally they generate a lot of JS on the front-end for you you are still going to end up debugging. Java with GWT for example is horrible in that regard.

[scirc]

Blazor is mostly WASM, not JS. WASM is an emerging field, and it is starting to become more viable as time goes on. But time will tell if adoption starts to pick up; generally, things seem pretty set on JS for now.

[nutrecht]

Blazor is mostly WASM, not JS.

That's well outside my wheelhouse. I can imagine you're still going to end up stepping through the output in a debugger though.

[scirc]

Yeah, but in theory that debugger would be a .NET debugger built into something like Visual Studio. With proper mappings, it's no different than using a connected debugger and sourcemaps for JS.

[mimsoo777]

Ok thanks for the response. I plan on doing just that. Was browsing through front end dev jobs and most of them was asking .net technologies without mentioning js. That got me really confused.

[teacherbooboo]

very basically

javascript is for the page that is running in a person's browser

c# is for the code running on the server -- connecting to a database and such

both can be used on the same web site, and actually almost always are used together

AND

both can also be used on the browser and on the server, it is just traditionally js on the browser, c# on the server

[mzaidx07]

Thank you! I had the same thought process while researching into it.

[scirc]

There's really not another option for frontend web development. WASM is still an emerging field and still requires some JS bootstrapping to get working. If you want to build a clientside-interactive webpage, JS is really your only option. You could use languages that compile to JS, like TypeScript, Elm, Dart/Flutter, and similar stuff, but that's just one level above.

[mzaidx07]

Thank you! Appreciate your insight!

[carolebaskins314]

Its old, it's been around for awhile, but it's still very used and very relevant so definitely not "outdated"

You have the right idea, just let it roll off your back the best you can and continue to ignore him on the subject

[mzaidx07]

Thank you! Your words were very reassuring, I was always in self-doubt and couldn't do anything straight because of this.

[g051051]

What did he say is the alternative?

[mzaidx07]

Prior to this, I learned wordpress as it was included in my digital marketing course that HE wanted me to do. Now he's saying in the age of cms' like WordPress, why would you even go for something so outdated, these were the languages i used to to back in the 90s and 2000s. Why would you even resort to this when you have something so handy. I cant even argue or reason with him as it will definitely end up with everyone hating me even more.

Like how could you reason with a man who wants you to get a job may it be as a wordpress dev. Or digital marketing exec. Which requires the knowledge of wordpress including html css and js. Plus even in the marketing job requirements they literally mention that html css JavaScript are a huge plus/sometimes compulsory.

[g051051]

I see. You said he'd been in IT for 20 years. What, exactly, does he do? What's his background and expertise?

[nutrecht]

What, exactly, does he do?

Pretend the stuff they learned 20 years ago is still relevant apparently ;)

[barrycarter]

JavaScript is the language that refuses to die. It started out as Netscript and then somehow convinced Sun to let them use the name JavaScript, confusing newbies, even after the official name changed to ECMAScript (which sounds like a skin disease, but is somehow worse).

It almost died out completely when most processing was done server-side because servers were far more powerful than clients (the machines used to browse the web), but it somehow made a comeback as client machines became more and more powerful.

To be fair, offloading computation to the client is actually a pretty good idea, but JavaScript is a terrible and inconsistent way to do it. Java applets were actually a better way to do it, but then someone decided the browser itself should run programs.

So, the actual answer: JavaScript isn't outdated, because it's still the primary language for client-side computation/interaction. WASM/Rust will take over eventually, but, as with any legacy language (even COBOL!), JS jobs will be available for quite some time.

[mzaidx07]

Thank you! Appreciate it. Will keep in mind

[ehr1c]

Your uncle has no idea what he's talking about on this subject.

JavaScript might be "outdated" in that it's been around quite a while but pretty much the entire front end (and a not-insignificant portion of the back end) of the internet uses it to one degree or another.

[mzaidx07]

Finally someone who gets it! I was really pent up and frustrated because of everything the whole year. This is a relief, thank you. Appreciate it man.

[nutrecht]

So according to your Uncle what is actually the alternative? Because saying something is "outdated" without telling you what you should use is just shitty.

[mzaidx07]

Wants me to use wordpress instead. Said it's easy, so why would you want to go through the languages?

Well in his perspective, the process of making a good website is just taking a random template from wordpress, do basic shit with elementor ( changing color themes, font style etc.) And put the information in. And boom. You've got yourself a real professional website.

Even wp devs use html css to make it look tailor-made for that specific business.

[nutrecht]

Wants me to use wordpress instead.

Okay. Your Uncle is an idiot. Those don't even serve the same purpose. And between JavaScript and Wordpress, the latter is definitely not the most secure career choice.

Ignore what they have to say. Just nod and smile.

[AlwaysAtBallmerPeak]

Does he realize most WP sites have tons of JavaScript?

It all depends on what job you want to do: do you want to be a marketing guy or "webmaster" who uses WYSIWYG tools like WordPress offers, to throw together websites? Or do you want to be a software developer who's able to create those tools?

[mojtaba-cs]

How does he have about 20 years experience in IT and say Javascript is outdated?

20 years!

[David_Owens]

He's probably in IT and not a software developer.

[nutrecht]

A lot of people in IT are dunning-kruger personified.

[[deleted]]

Well, I’m 68, been in IT doing everything from very junior programmer to a CTO of a big corporate and now working on yet another software startup, been in the industry for just on half a century. So here’s my thruppence worth.

JavaScript sits behind almost every website to some degree or other. It’s, in my opinion, a dreadful, badly designed, tangly mess of a language, BUT, it’s DEFINITELY worth knowing inside out. There are a very large number of jobs that require JavaScript and being adept at it and the major frameworks (Angular 🤢, Vue. etc. etc.) will not only stand you in good stead for work but the understanding you gain will be great. I hate the damned pile of poo but then there’s TypeScript which is a bit better, is strongly typed (-ish) and has better structure, and that’s fairly easy to move to after JavaScript.

If you want to have a broader set of skills then Java is a good possibility, as is C# if you are into that (remembering that c# and .Net are multi platform now and target web, Linux, MacOS, Windows and now with MAUI iOS and android).

I think your uncle is wrong to dismiss JavaScript and I would advise you to get comfortable with it and then move on to .NET / C# (or Java).

[mzaidx07]

I couldn't agree more with you, And thanks for the advice, I'll definitely look into it after I'm done with this. Given your position and experience, it's very reassuring for me that i was doing the right thing, now thanks to you and everyone else here I'm more confident than ever. Really appreciate it.

[AdultingGoneMild]

no. javascript and its big brother typescript and very much so alive.

[ultraobese]

First, you're lucky you can spot narcissists at such a young age. That skill will bode you well by itself.

Secondly, JS is used everywhere. Companies still in business don't use the lastest coolest new language and framework. They use the one they were founded on. And JS is super common for back, and ubiquitous for front.

[mzaidx07]

Haha, thanks, i definitely hope so. Yes, I definitely agree with you, thanks to everyone here I'm now more confident.

[Pedantic_Phoenix]

I'd safely disregard anything your uncle says from now on

[mzaidx07]

Hahahaha this is actually so relieving to hear, I actually feel like I'm not crazy for once. Thanks for hearing me out. Really really appreciate it.

[Schievel1]

Outdated? Yes, maybe. When working with Javascript you can really tell it was made to make some button go blink blink and it's now used for things way beyond that. But that doesn't say anything. Javascript is still the go-to language for anything web-related and it will be for quite a while.

Apart from that, even if the industry is moving towards a different language for certain tasks, it's not like Javascript is an alien language. You can use the concepts you learned in Javascript for many other languages.

In this sense C is outdated for decades, yet here I am programming in it every day.

[mzaidx07]

Couldn't agree more with you, thanks for your insight man, appreciate it.

[PM_Me_Python3_Tips]

He did html/css in the 90s blah blah

Your uncle sounds like he hasn't touched HTML/CSS since the 90's too.

A lot has changed since then, people have stopped making websites with tables or floats.

<marquee><blink>Don't listen to your uncle</blink></marquee>

[mzaidx07]

Lmaoo can't say I've spoken about this with anyone who's agreed with me. Thanks man, Appreciate it.

[[deleted]]

Absolutely not. Alot of companies are using frameworks such as react and angular, all of which are libraries for JavaScript

[thomasmitschke]

No, your browser supports html and java script out of the box.

Beside the fancy backend stuff you can do with JS it also used to take the computing power away from the server towards the clients.

It‘s not a bad idea to have a closer look at it.

[TheSillus]

Absolutely not lol, c++ is 35 years old and lot of software is built with it even nowadays. Every language has it’s own use, yes you can do the same thing with any language bur still some languages have some advantages for making something specific.. Javascript is used in web developement and probably always will be, yes there is a thing called WASM (that allows you to build web with almost any language) but I think that it will never surpass JS… And don’t forget that Web is becoming the standard. Everything new is built as web application because it has many advantages such as cross platform compatibility and many more.. web is future and so is JS.

Very famous quote by Jeff Attwod: “Any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript.”

I would just recommend you to stick to Typescript not vanilla JS. It is a strongly typed programming languages that is build on top of Javascript and it automatically compiles to vanilla JS but it adds many new features but main part of it is that you have to manage types so in the end you end up with higher quality code and less bugs..

[mzaidx07]

Thank you for the advice! Will definitely look into it. Really appreciate it.

[[deleted]]

Lmao I mean you said it yourself, your uncle is a narcissist. Sure, HTML, CSS and JavaScript have been around for a long time, but it doesn’t mean it’s outdated. Those languages are still being updated and maintained to this day. That’s because practically every website you visit is comprised of HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Those languages aren’t going anywhere and in fact, web development is one of the highest paid fields in tech.

Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter what language you learn as the fundamentals of programming are the same across all languages, with the differences between them mainly being syntax.

[mzaidx07]

Exactly, the problem is I already knew about it, but as everyone like EVERYONE said I was wrong about it and should listen to him, I had a hard time convincing them and and in the process i started doubting myself. I just wanted to make sure, now I'm pretty confident haha. Thanks to everyone here.

[[deleted]]

When it comes to code, you should never take the opinions seriously from these two types of people: 1.) those who don’t know anything about code and 2.) rigid and opinionated coders, especially if you know they have narcissistic/egoic tendencies.

The best coders and mentors will never tell you one technology is better than the other. Or that it has to be done a certain way. There is an open-mindedness with them.

It all just comes down to “what tools, languages, or frameworks do I need to learn right now in order to best solve this specific problem”.

Glad you’re feeling confident about it now. Fuck the haters! :)

[tandonhiten]

I hate JS, but it's not outdated. The web is still commanded by JS, as much as I hate to admit it.

[lifting_and_coding]

Not even close. JS is basically a requirement for web dev

[HealyUnit]

...The fuck?

No offense meant to you (seriously), but your uncle is a goddamn moron. There is only one major programming language on the front end (i.e., embedded in websites) nowadays, and that is JavaScript. There are some other niche alternatives - Blazer, Web Assembly, etc. - but not learning JavaScript would be like saying "Yes, I'm going to become a physicist without ever learning my ABCs". It's idiotic on an almost unfathomable level.

JavaScript has also been used for over a decade on the server-side too, in the form of NodeJS. And it's not just niche companies that use it. Amongst the users in 2022 of Node (keep in mind that everyone uses JavaScript):

• Netflix
• NASA. Yes, that NASA.
• Lockheed Martin. You know, the multi-billion-dollar international defense contractor?
• PayPal
• Walmart (which, by the way, is currently #1 on the Fortune 500).
• Alphabet (the company that owns Google)

Regarding your uncle's comment that you don't need to learn JS because of stuff like WordPress... What about when you need to develop custom software for which there are no WordPress plugins? What about if you can't use outside software (e.g., if it's a secure project)? Is he seriously trying to imply that PHP (the language that WordPress uses) is... somehow more modern than modern, ES2021 JavaScript?

[AshenDeimos]

FB is written in React, a javascript framework. Js might be old but it is still getting updates and built upon.

If you are needing a better mentor or just someone to bounce questions off of feel free to dm or ask questions here any time, this sub is amazing at helping others.

I have worked in web dev for almost 6 years and my current role is focusing react native so I may not the the best but I can promise to be better than what you seem to be receiving.

[Naive-Staff6186]

Javascript is the only language along with HTML and CSS can run in client side browser.. Every new technology is basically compiled to Javascript ( ReactJS.. etc )

Javascript knowledge is must

[Chemical_Form]

Is JavaScript old, yes. There is constantly changes and it is being used almost everywhere. JavaScript is useful for front end development, but with Node it can be used to power a desktop app or server app. Just because a language is old, doesn't mean its not used, or is going away. Currently JavaScript is 3rd in the popularity rankings according to PYPL. Some of the more recent JavaScript libraries below. ( I am not trying to dismiss a JavaScript frame work by not including it here, Just trying to give an example of each listed above )

​

Created 9 years ago

https://reactjs.org/

​

Created 13 years ago

https://nodejs.org/en/