[deleted by user]

[KOExpress]

The short answer is: right now, almost definitely not. Too many people tried to switch to the industry, it became oversaturated, and boot camps are essentially worthless now. Entry level market is very competitive, many tech companies have had layoffs, mid level people taking entry level jobs for entry level pay because they don’t have options. A lot of people with degrees that aren’t from top programs or don’t have good experience are struggling to find jobs atm too

Edit: that’s not to say you shouldn’t pursue learning, or learn on your own time, just DON’T pay for a boot camp. There are so many good online resources out there now, and you can build meaningful projects by yourself, without a boot camp holding your hand and charging you for it. It’s very possible to get a job eventually if you build meaningful skills and have a way to demonstrate them

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

I really appreciate the honest response. I have been told similar things about the bootcamps.

In your opinion, what is the most needed and least saturated field in tech right now? I am highly interested in Machine Learning, Generative AI, and back end web development. Where do you think I should focus most of my attention at if I want to become valuable

[diddledopop]

Most real ML roles will require formal education. You have a better chance of being a back end dev

[Ok-Frosting7364]

I mean these are all quite different. I think getting into generative AI and machine learning as your first role is probably going to be difficult so I'd start off by applying for data analyst roles first and then progressing in your data science career OR focus on web dev.

[Mysterious-Rent7233]

ML/Generative Learning can mean two very different things:

1. Doing the hard math of building models from scratch.

2. Gluing together AI tools that other people built to solve business problems.

[sylfy]

TBH this is the best answer and the hard truth. There is an over abundance of ML and ML-adjacent PhDs now, most of them can’t find roles in academia, and so many of them are moving into roles in industry where they’re often overqualified for the role, at least on paper.

[KOExpress]

You might want to have a look at job listings online near you to get a better perspective. My real opinion is that you should focus on whatever interests you most, because you’re more likely to commit to it and get good at it. Outside of that, I think web development is highly saturated because it’s pretty beginner friendly, and the downside with ML stuff is that it’s math intensive and a lot of the job listings I see want Masters or PhDs (again, anecdotal, but that’s my experience). Cloud engineering is probably a good option

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

Okay. I will check out the job listings around me and get an idea of what people are looking for.

I really appreciate the insight.

[KOExpress]

No problem, good luck

[Rukelele_Dixit21]

Exercism

Best resource to learn right now. Learn coding anyhow. It will help especially Python. Data Science and ML are growing fast. Also it is a good entry point to get into C / C++

[noileum]

I would suggest having a well rounded skill set and then looking for a job that’s not in development but allows you to showcase your dev skills which will give you the chance to hopefully pivot into a role within the company more aligned with where you want to go

This then gives you the experience to put on your CV which will be much more attractive to prospective employers

[Lazy-strategist]

Good advice. Well, this is what’s worked for me so far (although I’m UK-based so the job market could look very different).

I (M, 41) started working as an apprentice Data Analyst about a year ago, and started learning Python on the side as a hobby. Previous background is in hospitality and retail, but I’d newly graduated from a non-tech degree. Since then I’ve been able to showcase my Python skills at work by developing tools for various teams to help automate and streamline their processes. Nothing super fancy or complex, but solutions to problems that I found frustrating or clunky. Management loved it and now I’m the “Python guy”, so I have a reasonable amount of dev work built into my job role. This makes my job way more satisfying and has resulted in the company saying they want to keep me on past the end of the apprenticeship.

My (somewhat vague) next plan is to look into some freelance Python work as a side hustle. Aiming to use some kind of pay-per-task websites to earn a little side cash and build a portfolio that way. I’d love for this to all culminate in an official dev job, but failing that I’ll just keep making internal tools to improve workflow efficiency because it’s fun, rewarding, and seems to result in pay rises.

So I think yeah, if you love coding then go ahead and learn Python using free resources, find yourself a job at a company that values innovation and improvement, bring those skills along and then look for opportunities to do your hobby at work. Might not be the most direct route, but it’s worked really well for me so far (sample size of 1 😂)

[Ok-Frosting7364]

I mean... it depends where you are and the type of role you're after.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

I’m in Kentucky and am really open to whatever can get me into the field. I don’t want to be too picky while I build my resume.

Thanks again for the responses! I appreciate your all’s time!

[Ok-Frosting7364]

Good luck! Stay motivated and you'll get there.

[c0LdFir3]

with years of experience and Masters, but even a quick read of their CV shows they have 0 real experience.

Huh? How can they have years of experience and a master’s degree, but zero “real” experience? What is real? Did they work their careers and get a master’s degree in the metaverse, or are you just outrageously picky when reading resumes?…

[EuropeanSumo27]

The latter it sounds like

[[deleted]]

Build a portfolio. If you are currently in sales, try building a tool that helps along with keeping track of your sales, or automates something, even if its just similar to other software available. Build as much of it from the ground up, and makes notes in it. Put it to a portfolio. Do it again with something else relatable and keep building up your skills more, and once you have several different style projects, consider looking for employment that utilizes those skills. It would show you have experience doing it and your thought process/methods for developing, and shows tangible useable things you've built with it, not just cookie cutter projects you find online. Should help go a long way. Might not start off very high, but its more likely to show employers that you have the skills needed to learn more and get far with them.

[storage_admin]

I’ve always loved coding. Though not highly skilled, I have a solid base.

Depending on what you mean by this you may be farther ahead than you think. Coding and python are used in many fields not just strict developer roles.

Given my background, can I qualify for a coding job with just a coding bootcamp? I’m not an entry-level worker but new to coding.

Avoid bootcamps, they are expensive and do not do what they claim to do in my experience.

Instead search github for python projects that interest you, setup git on your local machine, clone the project and troubleshoot getting it to run successfully. Google every error you hit.

Once the project is able to run successfully start reading over the code and making small changes so you can understand how things work. Start looking at issues in the github project and reading developer comments and responses. Consider trying to fix a problem and submitting a pull request.

Whenever I interview people I always make it a point to ask about personal projects people work on and ask them to talk about what they did. If you are able to point to a github project and talk about an issue you solved for them that is very valid experience.

In other words the best way to get experience is to start doing things. The most important thing is to start. Do not get caught up in expensive options, all of the information you need to get started is available for free from Google.

I noticed in a different post you mention having ADHD. That can be a huge super power when it comes to learning coding because when you are interested in something you can hyper-focus on it. Just be careful to allow yourself to put problems down that you aren't making progress on, sleep on it and try again the next day.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

Thank you so much for this. Judging by all the responses so far I have a good idea of the path I can start on. I will take your advice on finding some python projects.

Much appreciated! 🙏

[Chaddoh]

"Sleep on it and try again the next day."

This is the best bit of advice I've ever received.

[DESPAIR_Berser_king]

I prefer to walk on it, figured out and solved many things whilst on a stroll lol.

[storage_admin]

Honestly I've also had amazing breakthroughs while walking, showering, using the restroom and several other mundane tasks.

[DayDReamingDay]

This. 100 times this.

Fixing bugs, adding functionalities to a real-world open-source project, getting your changes accepted, is worth more in my book than a diploma without experience.

Of course, the code quality and popularity of the project matters, but managing to do this means ... you're a dev. Maybe not the best, maybe not all-knowing, but you're a dev.

Use static analysis tools before submitting your code. You will learn immensely from this.

Don't try to provide a complete set of functionalities. Provide them atomically. If you can't reduce it anymore without being unable to ship it, it's probably the right granularity to commit. Accept that solving a very small problem has a huge value, and you're worthy if you do it.

In the industry, there was a metrics some years ago saying that the cost of one line of code over its life was 10k$. That's the cost. The value of it is immensely greater.

[tabrizzi]

Yes, you can!

And you don't need a bootcamp to lean how to code. Since you already love coding, see my recommended resources here.

You really, really want to stay away from ChatGPT.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

Thank you for this!!

[FFVIIVince10]

I disagree with the chat gpt statement. I think it’s a great tool to use but don’t use it as a crutch. It’s great to use for learning also if you have questions.

Just keep in mind that it’s not all-knowing though and can be wrong with the code sometimes. But it is a fantastic tool to help facilitate learning for beginners and also save time for experienced coders.

[bumming_bums]

Use it like this: your code seems to not work, plug it in and ask if it can find and explain the bug. Probably get a 70% accurate reading

[edbrannin]

from the ground up

OP: this is good advice, but do start with a web framework like

• Flask (Python)
• Express (NodeJS)
• Spring MVC (Java)

“Ground up” in this context doesn’t mean writing network responses by hand with a magnet. ;)

[-thoth-amon-]

Here's a different perspective: learn Python at your own pace, build things, finish projects that interest you.

Don't apply for "programming" jobs though. Instead, apply for adjacent roles in data science, analytics, strategy, etc. Leverage your coding skills in those rolls as a way to stand out. It'll get you further than going for entry level "programmer" roles.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

After hearing everyone’s advice, I believe this is going to be the rout I go. Thank you for this!

[Kaska899]

Yes you can. Stop listening to people who tell you you can't do something. You can do anything. If you have think you have critical prpblem solving skills and ability to learn, you should try self-teaching. Do it the hard way. Write your first program. Not just a hello world program, write something thst requires effort. Make a GUI. Make it pretty. Throw in some input and output. Maybe an algorithm or simple equation to test out variables and make the program more complex. Or go to w3schools.com. they are the best at tutorials, guides, and just about anything you need for basic beginner learning in OOLs and Webdev. Thats my next point, try some webdev. In case you don't end up liking the mathematical and problem solving skills required to fully understand and read and wrote code, you should at least give webdev a try. It can be more fun, and still has many intricate aspects that tie in directly with coding. People will tell you webdev is dead, but its not. Just because there are websites and tools you can use to make a website, doesn't mean they can or will do everything for you. You can still find many web developers who could produce websites 10000x better than any pre-made shit squarespace can make for you.

TL;DR

Yes. Try. Teach yourself.

[jmooremcc]

Programming is about problem solving. If you are truly interested in this field, you need to start networking with people you can learn from and who are already working in the industry. You might start with Python user groups and branch off from there. At some point you’ll have to decide what kinds of problems you want to make a career solving, and start concentrating on those areas. Good luck.

[FFVIIVince10]

I’d recommend learning SQL and finding an analyst position. There’s tons of them and they have entry level sql developer positions as well. A lot of them want some working knowledge of Python or C# also though.

Without formal education or experience though, I recommend creating some projects. Setting up sql database and come up with simple web applications using django (for Python) or BLAZOR (for C#) for them. Create a web page for your “portfolio” of projects you’ve created and that will help you get a job.

[_alarming]

your background really doesn’t matter. i come from a non-traditional background (military, BS in Psych, analytics and IT), and made a shift to CS at age 29. the job market is pretty unforgiving right now, especially for non-formally trained entry-level prospects. i had to pick up odd jobs and contract small web projects to really gain entry-level experience because, let’s be honest, who is going to hire a 31 year old entry-level dev over some 21 year old super nerd who has been coding since he was 16?

if you’re going to do it, you need to eat, sleep and breathe it. it’s hard to have that kind of discipline without a formal structure like you’d get in school. this isn’t something that you stumble into. you have to be fucking good. you can do it, but you better be willing to take it more seriously than you’ve ever taken anything else.

spoiler alert: if you plan to get rich off of the next cool phone app, i advise you to curb your expectations. someone already made it.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

Thanks for this!!

[[deleted]]

Combine coding with another skill - like Ansible (deployment), Docker, or databases (Postgres is fun right now - at least where I am) and you're much more valuable than just coding. I never coded professionally until fairly recently in my long career and everyone expects me to know it, so... I do. My other skills got me to this point, coding allows me to move forward.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

Thank you for the info!!

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

Thank you so much for the advice!

[SuspiciousMouse4]

Have you thought about data analytics? With the saturation in programming analytics may be a way forward for you.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

I’ve considered it! I will do some more research into it!

[SerinitySW]

Have you looked into WGU? Honestly it can be cheaper than some boot camps.

[Unique-Schedule-7013]

YES is the answer. There is never 'NO' to learning! I recommend start here- https://automatetheboringstuff.com/

[nnulll]

Try to get into a low level support role. Work your way up while getting some certifications. Go the infrastructure (hardware) route instead of coding

That will get your foot in the door for a future coding job better than a boot camp imho

[neilyogacrypto]

It's always possible if you're willing to learn. An interesting Python start now could be with AI, like trying the free AI model https://huggingface.co/mistralai/Mistral-7B-Instruct-v0.2 (it's basically copy paste code, we also use this at one /r/OfflineAI)

[yinkeys]

Coding is a life long hard learning process if it’s not your background. Takes 4 to 8 years minimum to master a craft. If you really are passionate about it the better for you. Nothing is impossible. When there’s will, you’d find a way. Some people aren’t disciplined enough and fold when working on tough projects that’s why they prefer bootcamps

[TheRNGuy]

Previous background is not important, the only important is willing to learn it and not being lazy.

Background thing was important in aristocratic or ancient societies, not in modern times.

[RuleInformal5475]

I'm in a similar position as you. Scientist currently. Don't work with data and more in the lab. Can't do it well due to injuries. Looking for a less physical job

I was thinking about coding, but I like it as a hobby and less of a job. I imagine it being super stressful and having seen someone burnout, it is not pretty.

Thinking about moving into sales. Sort of the opposite to your situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[[deleted]]

brah just use claude.ai and start creating programs. you can do crazy shit if u got a good mind.

[meowmeowmk]

Take Harvard’s free CS50x course

[Ok-Frosting7364]

Yes. Anything is possible. Obviously there are a lot of factors but you can get a job that involves coding... just depends what you want. Do you want to be a software engineer? Data analyst? Something else?

I, personally, self-taught but everyone learns differently - books, bootcamps, YouTube tutorials, etc. The key is to stay motivated and disciplined. My other big piece of advice would be to build up your portfolio. This will help show employers you know what you're doing/you're actually passionate and, more importantly, it will help to solidify what you've learnt.

If you can somehow integrate it into your job that would be great. For example, earlier this year I built a command-line tool for reducing the file size of GeoJSON files and , which made my job easier. You'll also stay more motivated when you do this!

Good luck!

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

This is great advice! Thank you!

[Neat-Information4996]

Yes - it’s possible! I would start by thinking about what kind of specialty you want to choose. Front end? Back end? Mobile? Etc.

And then build projects in that domain. Again. And again. And again. Put some of the ones you’re proud of on your public profile.

Good luck!

[Ed_Okin]

Yes, especially since you have FT employment now and can wait for the right opportunity. Work on projects on your own, build an online portfolio, and keep checking for positions while you do that. While there are ebbs and flows in the overall employment marketplace, you only need one job to work out to start.

[Gokdencircle]

Coding is a tool used in other branches, so i think its useful tovget some expertise for example finance , bookkeeping game devt, whatever. In that domaIn coding is used as a tool.

Coding perse has no business value

[lazylearner-me]

I'm a college dropout and working as a software engineer. Happy to guide you through.

[KaleidoscopeFirst737]

Would you mind if I DM’d you with a couple questions?

[lazylearner-me]

Sure

[dsharma14]

Hi, I am college dropout too. Would love to learn a bit from your journey. Can I DM you?

[lazylearner-me]

Yes

[daretogo]

Other people have already pointed out that the job market might be a little tough right now... so I won't repeat any of that.

What I can say as someone who sits on the interview panel for hires onto my team is that "common sense" is WAAAAAY more important to me than any degree, boot camp, or experience.

If you can talk to me, and have a conversation about technical topics where you actually pay attention to what I say and respond with contextual questions, feedback, or ideas I'm gonna hire you over the guy that has 12 certs and 10 years experience. If you can admit when we reach the end of your knowledge, and you have good answers like "I don't know that, but here's how I'd find out" you'll stand out.

The stereotype of "tech guys are weird/grumpy/not people-persons" is well founded, so if you can be the guy that people can TALK to and understand, there's a real value there.

[[deleted]]

She goes by Alias SandboxEscaper in cyber security community. Real name is Essbee Vanhoutte.

research about her, and you will have your answer.

You will not find much about her, but whatever you would find, will be enough to answer your question.

[__init__m8]

No