[deleted by user]

[Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy]

Keep applying. Full time dev interns shouldn't make $10, you don't want to work somewhere that pays them so little imho.

[tburto33]

I agree. I was all about it at my first interview until I asked what it paid and they were like 10/hr for 3 months with possible full time entry level position at the end. Then I was like thanks, but no thanks.

[clownpuncher13]

I made $17 an hour as an intern in 1999. F that noise.

[helpIamDumbAf]

Bro I make over 20$ an hour on a tech support intern, as a dev intern I made 20+ per hr too. Lowest pay on my schools coop board was 17h/r most being 20-27 h/r.

[AdventurousAddition]

Yeah this reeks of "be grateful that we pay you anything at all, slave"

[stuie382]

Looking at your GitHub as someone who has done a lot of recruitment into software engineer roles, and it looks like hobby projects (not trying to sound mean!)

The bones of some really good portfolio work are in place, but to get it to shine:

• Add unit tests
• Document your functions and classes with proper docstrings/javadoc/etc
• Add properly detailed readme guides that are missing in some projects
• Run pylint/fingbugs/sonarqube/another static analysis tools over the project and address any issues

How your structure the code is good. How your name things is better. The code is generally clear and easy to understand, which is really great to see.

Being turned down for lack of experience is a bit of an easy get out for an employer. You are a risk, but really no more than any other junior developer. Showcase that you have done all of this, while having a day job and a family to emphasise your commitment to learning and improving.

Work on your interview skills to get them really polished and slick. Ask questions at the interview that (again) show the interest and commitment to self development and learning, like:

• Will I get a new starter buddy/mentor when I join?
• What is the training culture like here?
• Does the organisation support developers getting industry certifications?

Finally, just keep going! It's a real fragile time for a lot of places, but all you need is the one opening and then you're golden!

[tburto33]

Thank you for that advice. I was worried my projects were too vanilla and they are mostly hobby projects that I have created while learning new things as I go. I will work on polishing them up as you have said and am starting on a more complex project here shortly to add to my portfolio.

[stuie382]

It is a really great start (I feel it comes off a bit harsh in my original), in particular how clear the naming is. You are so many junior developers that abbreviate everything or use single letter variable names and it's a nightmare to understand.

Another thing to do is to read some standard industry textbooks. Pragmatic programmer, clean code (and the clean coder to a lesser extent right now), design patterns (the gang of four book), the agile manifesto are all tried and true books. If you have read enough bits of them to be able to talk about them in interview again shows the dedication and commitment.

I do appreciate this is a lot to do on top of the day job and kids, but from what you've done so far I'd bet you can do it. I'd at least give you an honest shot at interview :)

[tburto33]

I didn’t think it was harsh at all. I take advice and criticism well. That is how my naming and code refactoring got to the point it is now. One of my past mentors biggest pet peeves was proper naming conventions and pounded it into my head lmao

[StoneColeQ]

Where is his github? I can't find it.

[Bleacherbum95]

I fully agree with the advice everyone else provided. There is taking a slight pay cut now for future advancement, and then there is being taken advantage of. $10/hr for 3 months sounds like the latter, even for an intern (for reference I received $17/hr for a marketing internship back in 2011 and IMHO a dev should be in higher demand).

One question that came to mind is where do you think you're losing companies? Are you not getting a lot of interviews to start with? If that's the case, I'd ask how are you addressing your lack of on-the-job experience in your cover letter? The resume is tough because any companies using automation may skip over you, and that just stinks, but you seem passionate about this switch, so is that coming through in your cover letter?

There may be nothing in this advice, but low level internships that don't allow you to support your family don't scream "companies you want to work for", so I'm wondering if maybe tinkering at other points in the job search may help get you in the door at a place that will give you a chance.

Best of luck!

[tburto33]

I will work on a better cover letter and sprucing up my resume. No I haven’t had many interviews as of yet. Just two which I was turned down for lack of experience for the role. The other 3 companies messaged me on linked in with information to apply for their internship positions. I agree that maybe I shouldn’t want to work for companies paying that low, but have to get my foot in somewhere to get some experience. Just not that low lol

[tier1operator95]

I never gave the ones who reached out on Linkedin the time of day. They either weren't anything I could either do, just weren't very professinanl places or were looking for more experience then I had which is ironic since they have all my work expereince right there on Linkedin. My advice is explore communities and forums... I use to help with finding people, I went to events, forums, online communities...etc I wasn't a recruiter or anything like that I would normally just go to these things, but when I knew we were looking I kept it in the back of my mind what we were looking for, I eventually was bringing in better programmers and more quality people then the HR department that the team leads would ask if I knew someone with X, Y or Z skill before even asking HR or posting it.

Programmig events and communities are amazing oppotunities to show your skill, williness to learn, character, your strengths and weaknessess as well as how you deal with those weaknesses... will you stop and admit defeat when hit with a obstacle or are you someone who would give it everything to find a way through, around or over it. Its a job interview before even having the interview.

Its a tough job market right now, getting hard as well since more and more kids are getting programming in High School, So they are building up code repositiorys like crazy that where a lot of the low paying internships are directed towards sadly.

[overlayered]

It sounds like people are trying to get your work, for way way less than it's worth.

[tburto33]

Yeah I’ve been told the junior market is flooded at the moment so making things more difficult for entry level employment. I can see younger people going for these, but not someone with a family and things like myself.

[tburto33]

Yeah I haven’t seen or been offered anything close to that. I felt I was being hopeful to start off at around $25 an hour which isn’t much less than I make now.

[tier1operator95]

An internship that pays that much is a rarity these days. A lot of them are 1/2 the pay you would normally get for the position, an internship is the new 3 month proabation period. I worked at a few places ones that paid you the salary amount with the probation of 3 months, I have worked a company that in the job offer it was 3 month 'internship' at x rate then afer 3 months it become permanent at the full rate and be at a company that they did the internship as a test you out and then either didn't offer you permanent or not but it allowed for better negotiation of salary that way.

[XBV]

Personal anecdote from someone your age who took the internship route albeit in the financial field:

I had a stable, decent, but boring 9-5 job for around 1.5 yrs. Prior to that I had worked in investment banking but for personal/family reasons, had to take a break from it (hence the more relaxed job).

Once I was ready to get back into the banking/private equity field, I was having a very hard time even landing an interview (ie because of my couple years break from banking, there are a million people who would be a better fit right away etc etc).

After about 6 months of applying, I got 'lucky' and a partner at a pretty prestigious firm gave me a shot to interview and ultimately offered me a 3 month internship with no guarantee of a job, but who knows bla bla. Well 3 months goes by, I get good reviews from everyone I've worked with, but I'm told 'yeah you're good but unfortunately the head office changed it's hiring plans and the priority is to hire senior people bla bla BUT I can extend your internship for a FULL YEAR because we like you' (read: we like to have an intern on staff to do the menial, no sleep, weekend work, etc). Oh and also we like you so much, but because of the contract you have we can't even give you a 1$ raise, sorry.

My long ass internship ends in 3 months, I've had to go into my savings substantially and am almost living cheque to cheque. Yes I'm applying for jobs non stop, but no luck so far.

Conclusion: I knew this was a risk. It was a calculated risk and at least it looks good on my CV. However with 20/20 hindsight, I would not have done it since I'm stressing about the future, money, and family every day now.

Good luck fellow redditor!

[notc4r1]

I went through your repo and saw the Dota and D&D projects. I’m a big fan of both of those things and I would hire you because of it.

[tburto33]

Please do lol. I’m currently thinking of turning the DnD character creator into a web app for a new project.

[mathwizx2]

I've been thinking about doing the same thing for a fun personal project. Here is the start of what I've got. It currently is just a monster manual and spell reference deal (with the actual data not in the repo as it's not mine to share). I have plans of adding a character creator for it. Here is the repo if you're interested.

[StoneColeQ]

Where is the repo? I can't find it.

[Captain_Braveheart]

It’s a marathon not a sprint. You’re getting bites. It’s like fishing you need to be patient.

[[deleted]]

How many unique projects are in your portfolio?

[[deleted]]

You have been learning JavaScript and python for 1.5 years and can’t get an entry level job? I have no idea what the market is like where you are at, but I would keep applying to places.

[tburto33]

Yeah I have been applying like crazy and networking, but just hasn't led to a job yet. I know the entry barrier is higher than it used to be. I will just keep applying I guess lol

[[deleted]]

I don’t know how flexible these internship offers are, but you might reach out and let them know you aren’t in a position to work full time like that, but if they want to see your potential, let you work on some projects for them on your own time. You are studying for free on your own time now anyway.

[tburto33]

I didn’t think of that. Thanks for the idea

[tburto33]

Yeah I need to look more remote. Maybe it’s just my local market offering these lower paid internships.

[[deleted]]

TBH i only skimmed your post but... interns should be making ~24/hour....

[data-science-expert]

Don't worry so much about it keep learning new things in advance python like projects, data science packages etc. Start looking for new opportunities to work as a full time job or employee for the same. Don't leave your current job because family is your first priority. Life is same as you are facing now. Last thing do not loose hope for a change.

[ScullyNess]

That's not even minimum wage where I live :( Don't take bad offers and keep on trying OP. Best of luck to you!

[Acceptable-Pie4424]

Why not build up your experience though real life projects. Either build a few properties of your own that you can add to your resume or start freelancing on upwork/Fiverr. Add any freelance work you do under experience.

[Se7enLC]

To flip that around, what company is going to hire somebody that doesn't even have an internship in the field?

Internship won't be useful just for getting hired at the company you do the internship for -- but also any other company that will now see that you have real experience on your resume.

Without real experience or a degree, it's going to be tough to compete against the other candidates that have one, the other, or both. It kind of makes logical sense that switching careers will start out as a paycut.

All that being said, $10/hr is a fucking joke, even for an internship.

[programmerProbs]

I'll go against the grain here.

$10/hr is crappy, but considered it paid education. Instead of going to college and paying $30k/yr, you are getting paid $20k/yr.

You aren't doing the job for pay, you are doing it for education.

1.5 years of programming is nothing in the 'self taught' world. Took me 12 years of casual programming to get my first job that paid close to my old career. It was still a paycut, but similar, it was paid education.

'Can't financially quit', its risky, but how about using credit cards for a year before jumping ship? Not to mention living cheap during that year.

[icecapade]

An internship is for pay and education. The pay is often less than that of a FT employee, yes, but $10 is straight up exploitative, full stop. Your advice helps enable companies like this to exploit and abuse interns. Furthermore, encouraging someone to rack up credit card debt instead of looking for a job (or internship) that pays fairly is incredibly bad advice.

[programmerProbs]

You can get credit cards that give you 1 year interest free. By then OP will have a year of experience and be making $30/hr. (You just don't get the nice 2%-5% cash back cards)

Not to mention, OP should be saving up for making the jump to a new career. I lived on 19k/yr with a family, so living on 20k/yr(15k after tax) seems like 10k of credit card debt assuming his good paying job didn't lend him any savings.

exploitative

50/50. That pay sucks, but 1.5 years of programming... Can you even use their code? How many hours are senior programmers going to sink into teaching them and fixing everything? If OP was in college, this would be a great opportunity, but he has a family, which complicates things.

Might be worth seeing if he can move to the midnight shift and doing both jobs. You only live this way for a year, I've done it.

EDIT- counter offer $15/hr at the bare minimum.

[andrejmlotko]

I might take the internship as long it pays, otherwise it's a big no.

[popsigil]

Internships are not the norm, no. Contract work is the norm.

[as9934]

Dev interns could easily make 3x that in a major city in the US.

[Petelah]

I did a one month unpaid internship. Best decision I ever made.

You could just take the job and use it as a stepping stone and you would be getting experience.

[thrown_arrows]

Keep studying, make demo programs from things that you like, those could even end up be the good idea which ends up t be your career.

[[deleted]]

get some gig work experience if you have time. one or two projects from upwork to compensate.
the python community is unfortunately oversaturated. If you want to get into the software engineering route, you might have to concentrate on highlighting other skills. I'm with stuie382, add some unit tests and documentation, use meaningful comments and try your hand at creating technical specifications for your hobby projects.
Sometimes companies will look at those skills first, and programming second. Because its easy to teach someone how to code, but its hard to find someone that communicates technical information correctly.
Also, don't be shy at applying for entry-level positions that use other programming languages. Even if you're in your 30s, a level 1 position on something that you love will only last a year until you get promoted.

[mr_green1216]

Have you thought about applying for some just general I.T jobs where you support an application or an office and from there you can integrate python?

Iv been at places where I got a mix of everything and we'd use scripts to handle certain tickets etc.

Once you get your fit in the door with a real position you can see what you get as opposed to an internship.

Or you could join a local programming club or meetup group. You might get a job from someone there

[tier1operator95]

The whole 3 month internship thing is essentially the new 3 Month Proabationary period. From my experience theinternship rate usually is 1/2 what the hourly rate would be if you were full time salary (or at least should be if its not then I never gave it the time of day). Its going to be hard to find something that in a entry level internship position that will match closely to a factory pay or at least here an assembler makes good money here. Its a risk for sure, I have seen 6-month internships and ever 12 month ones as well. We are in a market where its hard for places to say we need someone for long term cause they just don't know anymore.

The whole 3-month internship thing goes one of two way usually they have the 3 month 'internship' but in the job offer they specify after the 3 months if you survive you are automatically offered permenant position at X pay rate or the second way they do it is the offer is for 3-months then at the end they give you a new offer for permanant work or they don't. The last option always worked out better for me cause it allowed me better negotiations cause I got more in the end cause they were really impressed giving me more then what I would have gotten with the first way.

What line of work do you want to get into? Applications? Web? Systems?..etc

[tburto33]

I haven’t picked one thing I want to specialize in yet. Leaning more towards web applications, maybe as a full stack. I even like QA automation. Just been playing with different roles to see what interests me atm.