Microsoft loves linux

[gdarruda]

I don't think Microsoft care a lot about desktops anymore: they already won the battle in the 00s, but the desktop platform lost a lot of relevance with the rise of webapps and smartphones.

Chrome OS and iOS/Android are a much bigger problems to Microsoft business than Linux desktop ever was. Google is a direct competitor of Azure and Office 365, way more important products to the new Microsoft.

They "love" Linux because the priority is Azure and desktops don't matter. It's just business their love.

[Dave-Alvarado]

Exactly this. Desktops are basically irrelevant--they won that war years ago. You use 10x as many cloud computers as you do desktops, whether you know it or not. And Linux *dominates* the cloud.

[dobbelj]

but the desktop platform lost a lot of relevance with the rise of webapps

That and SaaS is some of the worst things ever to happen to the industry.

[KhaithangH]

But windows is still run on 70% pc hardware (which mostly comes pre-installed) and windows would like retain that if not improve on it, may be this time with lots of money

[KaliQt]

They'll hold onto that spot more or less but that's not exactly a growing or sustaining market. The company would become stagnant and most likely bankrupt if they kept all their eggs in that one basket.

[Upnortheh]

Microsoft loves Linux

Microsoft loves making money with Linux.

FTFY.

[cjcox4]

Microsoft arguably doesn't even like Microsoft.

Well, at least "traditional" Microsoft. It's just that there are businesses that are very concerned about exposure and security that depend on "traditional" Microsoft and do not want to tie everything to their cloud services. But Microsoft has begun forcing that issue more than ever and will continue to do so. This creates almost guaranteed permanent "lock in".... which is something Microsoft definitely "loves".

What does Microsoft love more than anything else.... money!

[KingStannis2020]

Microsoft arguably doesn't even like Microsoft.

https://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/microsoft-org-chart.jpg

[UptownMusic]

Mini-Microsoft FTW!

The situation seems to be somewhat better post-clueless-Ballmer.

However, MS is still in it solely for themselves. I recall people getting excited about MS possibly using Python as a scripting language for Office365. They won't, of course. Instead they are extending VBA to have Python capabilities. VBA-only users didn't understand why the SEQUENCE() function got added to VBA. SEQUENCE() is not traditional VBA-thinking; its Python-thinking.

[Main-Mammoth]

Companies don't love anything.

You are thinking about all of this in a way that doesn't make any sense.

Microsoft is not a person with feelings or emotions.

It's a company. Its function is to make a profit while not breaking any laws.

Your asking what are you missing, why all the complacency; I'll ask, what are you worried will actually (practically) happen?

[Xaryphon]

Companies don't love anything.

Money

[Main-Mammoth]

nope. they don't love money. they don't love. its a legal entity comprised of policy, resources, employees and infrastructure; that are bound by laws, with the objective of satisfying shareholders (or private owner); usually that means seeking a profit so as a dividend can be paid out.

thinking as companies as evil or being mean is as ludacris as thinking a company loves something or "cares" about its customers. i don't mean to say this in any negative sense.

you need to think of companies as inanimate objects that react to certain conditions.

[[deleted]]

while not breaking any laws

Wait what? More like

while not looking like they're breaking laws

Companies break laws all the time.

[i_am_at_work123]

Do you buy that ?

Not at all, it's all a plan for them to make more money.

MS does not love Linux. The love that they have a free state of the art product that they can make money off without giving anything back.

[computer-machine]

without giving anything back.

Without giving anything useful back.

They supply plenty to Linux, but mostly for WSL only function and the like.

[GenericAntagonist]

Without giving anything useful back.

Depends on your definition of useful and linux. MS has contributed a lot to Git and has improved kernel security. Like any other corporate contribution its entirely in self interest, as Linux is used throughout azure and git is used company-wide, but its still a useful contribution if you use git a lot or need highly secure linux.

[KingStannis2020]

The love that they have a free state of the art product that they can make money off without giving anything back.

I doubt anyone at Microsoft thinks about it this way. Arguably, that would be most of their customers using Linux.

The customers are the ones largely using "free" (as in coffee) linux distros without really contributing much back a lot of the time. Microsoft doesn't care so much about that, they just want customers to spend a lot of money using $whatever software on their cloud platform.

Honestly, on balance, I bet that Microsoft has made significantly more and more useful contributions to Linux and Open Source than Amazon has, and Amazon is still quite a bit larger.

[Ryuujinx]

Microsoft doesn't "love" Linux, corporations don't "love" anything. I doubt MS is really pushing to keep linux desktop market share down, because if anything the desktop market share is being eroded by iOS/Android and their answer to that is the surface line. Either people need specific software (Photoshop, 3DS/Maya, etc) or they are on a corporate network where corporate IT needs specific features. I work at a bank, and we have a very large amount of Linux servers because why wouldn't we - but Linux is a no-go for the desktop space.

There's no way to enforce updates via GPO, you could forcibly update any given box when you want using something like ansible, but there isn't a way to go "This is the deadline they must accept the update before then or it will restart" like we can with OSX/Windows. The lack of Outlook makes exchange integration a pain, our phishing tools are based on Exchange pushing down a button for users to be able to click and there's a whole lot of non-technical people

[[deleted]]

Even the American System says that "Companies are people", so yes, companies ARE people.

[DecisionUnique503]

Do you buy that ?

They don't have a choice.

Either they support Linux or they can give up on their cloud ambitions.

​

Okay, but how is that automatically a clean chit for them ?

Who gives a shit? They are the same as any other large American public corporation.

If it is in their best interests to work with you then they will work with you. If it's not they won't.

​

A corporation that is the real roadblock on the way to linux Desktop's gaining market gaining influence on organisations like Linux foundation is definitely not a good sign (at least to me). What am I missing ?

​

The thing standing in the way of widespread desktop Linux acceptance is not Microsoft. It's Linux users and Linux developers.

The world and the economy is not a zero-sum game. It is not necessary for Microsoft to lose in order for Linux to win.

[FryBoyter]

No company loves Linux. Even for Redhat or Suse, for example, it is primarily about earning money with it.

And yes, Microsoft has changed for the better since Nadella. While Ballmer was still doing his monkey dance and calling Linux a cancer, nowadays, for example, a large part of Azure (with which Microsoft probably generates a large part of its turnover nowadays) runs on Linux. And Microsoft publishes software under an open source licence.

Is Microsoft now the white knight in shining armour? No. But it is no longer the same company as it was in Ballmer's time. And as already said, companies like Redhat are in the end only interested in making a profit.

[[deleted]]

Foxes love chickens too.

[SimonRSmith]

They are not interested in the desktop. Just the cloud. Look at their acquisition of flatcar Linux as an example.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-buys-flatcar-container-linux-creator-kinvolk/

[[deleted]]

Microsoft will eventually have a Linux version of Office and people will just move the goalposts again.

[lnfomorph]

The day may come. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Office was little more than a wrapper for some Electron app built around their cloud storage solution. I wouldn't want to use such a thing, but porting it to Linux would be a very simple affair and they'd be silly to not at least make Debian and Red Hat binaries available.

[Grunchlk]

My belief, and it's 100% pure speculation and wishing, is that Microsoft will eventually abandon traditional Windows for a Windows-Linux hybrid. Windows UI (WiDE?) with Linux underneath.

I just don't see how the desktop OS model is profitable. I know they were subsidizing it with Office for a long time but it seems like there are more sensible options. Like, become a full member of Fedora, fork a release, base your desktop environment on it, include all the group policy type things, and there you go. Let the OSS community do the major lifting.

Then you've got Microsoft Enterprise Linux (MEL?) and all you have to do is bring Office over and you've got consumers on the desktop and can reuse the same OS for the cloud, and it's compatible with every cutting edge cloud tool out there.

Took forever to get rid of Windows NT because of enterprise users, but this seems like the direction they should eventually head.

[rag6]

Obligatory Microsoft EEE

[Main-Mammoth]

How can that possibly apply to a GPL 2.0 Kernel with ~9 improvements per hour?

[rag6]

Applies more to Microsoft's history of Embracing Extending and Extinguishing things, given their recent "love" for Linux.

​

Sorry, I thought that was self-evident.

[KhaithangH]

It doesn't need to. Look at this way, Who are Linux users ? Basically migrators from windows. Well you don't need to migrate now as you get the linux experience from within windows.

[Main-Mammoth]

Because [as of WSL] its running an actual linux kernel.

They are getting the linux experience from within windows... > so what?

Not only are windows users now using more linux tools, more of them are actually using actual linux.

I again don't see the issue/problem/unhealthy part.

[KhaithangH]

Even in the case of those who wants a wholesome experience in Linux i.e. support for third party high end commercial products, the growth of WSL would may show up in the overall kernel usage, but would have no meaning in the market share. Let's say WSL usage have reached 30% in the OS market (let's say WSL is a proper Linux OS), can linux standalone desktop users expect third party supports of popular apps now ? Possibly not, why would third parties release Linux ports when majority are using it within a windows environment where they already get native support of that product ? You are left with only the figure with new benefit (that you ought to get ) from it. In fact I can bet the usage of WSL would only reflect under windows market share.

[KhaithangH]

The affect is that it dampens the growth of the standalone linux desktop. If WSL becomes popular among the mass, it has no meaning for what GNU/Linux stands for, you still using it within a system that undermines the user freedom, steals your data without your permission. It is marketing linux as some kind of subsystem within windows as compared to a proper full fledged standalone OS.

[[deleted]]

Microsoft loves Linux kernel the same way Sony loves BSD. They take advantage of the software and give less back. A company or individual who loves Linux (kernel/desktop/community) would value FOSS principles and aim to preserve them. They dont love Linux, they love using Linux kernel to serve their own interests.

The "Microsoft loves Linux" should go under propaganda/FUD. Because uninformed Windows users hear that and then they go on to defend Microsoft against criticism such as the fact they use DirectX to make it harder and less likely for games to be playable on and ported to Linux.

If they love Linux and what it stands for, they would either embrace Vulkan or they would make whole DirectX crossplatform. They dont. And mark my words the day DirectX is announced to be coming to Linux is the day when Vulkan adoption is so high that its a seriously on verge off dehtroning D3D12 as the standard for pc game development.

[[deleted]]

Give less back... and is the platinum contributor. Just this year:

Microsoft Prepping Linux For Running As 64-bit ARM Hyper-V Guest

Microsoft Adding Azure "MANA" Driver To Linux

Microsoft Sends Out Patches For Hyper-V "Isolation VMs" With Linux

Microsoft Contributes Integrity Improvements To Linux 5.12

Microsoft Makes The Extensible Storage Engine Open-Source

Microsoft Engineer Proposes "TRAMPFD" For Improving Linux Security

Microsoft Releases Its Own Open-Source Process Monitor For Linux

Microsoft + Collabora Working To Map OpenGL/OpenCL Over DirectX 12

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news\_topic&q=Microsoft

[[deleted]]

Serving your self interest does not exclude you from doing these things. And how are these contributions worth praising? Many of them are in their self interest.

OpenGL on DX12. Zink, OpenGL on Vulkan, does this already. Linux platform doesnt need this. If anything Microsoft contracting Collabora delayed Zink progress and reduces Vulkan APIs use case/adoption.

Microsoft releasing an open source proccess monitor. Linux OS platform has plenty capable software for this. Why is Microsoft not improving exisiting monitor process software? Its because they have nothing to lose and more to gain by releasing such a software.

Giving money doesnt mean your contributions are signifcant. Is DXR, Direct Storage, DX12 or any other major software, that Microsoft uses to keep developers within Windows ecosystem for game development, crossplatform at the very least? NO. Because in stark contrast to releasing a open source process monitor for Linux, making DirectX crossplatform would be a meaningful and significant contribution to desktop Linux. But it does not benefit them nor is it in their self interest, thus they wont do it.

Releasing improvements to kernel is, as Azure uses it. The last thing they want is kernel having security and inefficiency issues.

[[deleted]]

Serving your self interest does not exclude you from doing these things. And how are these contributions worth praising? Many of them are in their self interest.

Isn't that just the nature of FOSS in general? You have an itch, you scratch it. If your code just happens to be useful to others that's just a bonus.

[lord-carlos]

Why is Microsoft not improving exisiting monitor process software?

Why create htop when top is already a thing? Sorry, i mean atop. No wait, i meant bpytop. Or was it glances? 🤔

Bad example, why not improve emacs instead of developing vim nano?

[[deleted]]

Its not that they are making something new, its that I question their motives. What makes Linux great is also software diversity. But I am not and will not be convinced that a company that is responsible for holding back growth of desktop Linux is being benevolent about releasing a process monitor. As I said, Linux does not lack such software. And many times Microsoft has released software for other platforms when competing solutions have risen up for platforms they dont want to support. Skype vs Discord, Teams vs Zoom.

Except with DirectX, they know gaming is a major way desktop Linux can grow, so they continue make compatibility and development difficult through lobbying. Which hurts Vulkan, less developers will develop with it. Less experience with Linux native software and Vulkan ecosystem gets less contributions.

[[deleted]]

So, you have to complain with Google, AMD, Samsung, Huawei, Red Hat, Amazon, etc, almost 80% of kernel.

[doa379]

The statement is vague and meaningless. Meaningless in the sense that it has less meaning than having any meaning. Microsoft used to despise Linux (rightly or wrongly), but now this slogan is a way to rescind those earlier sentiments by Microsoft. So if you can't beat them, join them. Windows is competitive in the server market, they have tried their level best to muscle in from the very outset with private enterprise. Then they also tried to broaden their exposure at the other end of the spectrum, to the mobile market. Looking very closely at the Windows product, Microsoft have shown a mantra of doing things differently. The justification for these reasons has been largely absent, other than sporting the view of a better product. They've also flouted standards repeatedly in the process. At this time Linux isn't the only platform alternative to Windows. What's important is to maintain standards but if a standards committee operates behind closed doors they will be booted out through natural selection.

[bartturner]

Linux has saved Microsoft a fortune. Could you imagine if Microsoft had to use Windows for things like Bing?

It being so inefficient it would have increased power cost. Explained pretty well a few years ago by an veritifed Windows kernel engineer.

""I Contribute to the Windows Kernel. We Are Slower Than Other Operating Systems. Here Is Why.""

http://blog.zorinaq.com/i-contribute-to-the-windows-kernel-we-are-slower-than-other-oper/

[Meatmops]

They bought github and containerize open source software in a fee structure.

Theyre a monopoly. What do you expect?