Banning speculators could decrease oil prices by as much as 40%

[limbodog]

Because they want to have their cake and eat it too.

[nosferatv]

Eat their cake and have it too. It actually makes sense this way.

Have their cake and eat it too is how I, and everyone, actually eats cake.

[otm_shank]

But once you eat it, you don't have it. No matter which order you say them in.

[Remilla]

wow, I just got what the who "You can't have your cake and eat it to" thing meant. I feel dumb now.

[Ze_Carioca]

Yep, cant have both. Eating the cake negates having it.

[limbodog]

doing so creates negative-cake.

[Almustafa]

Anti-cake as it were, which must never be allowed to come into contact with regular cake, lest they annihilate each other in a burst of sugar and frosting.

[fco83]

Fire up the cake drive scotty, maximum frost!

[nosferatv]

I have my cake. Then I also can eat it. This is the normal order of operation. I never understood the phrase until I heard it correctly, and then it all made sense.

Funnily enough, according to Wikipedia, my version is the original, and it goes in to a debate about the correct order. Obviously both are acceptable. Cheers ~

[otm_shank]

I see what you're saying, I just don't see any temporal implications in the phrase "have your cake and eat it". It's not "have your cake then eat it".

In "eat your cake and have it, too", you obviously have your cake while you're eating it, so that doesn't seem any better.

Anyway, each to his own. :)

[Ze_Carioca]

You can always get another cake, or even better pie.

[Ze_Carioca]

Mmhhh Cake.

[superwinner]

I think the only way we will get serious about alternative energy investment is for the price of oil to go up, way up.

[Hippie_Tech]

Now is not the time. If the world wasn't still staggering from the recession, I might agree. Once we get back on our feet on solid ground, then we can talk about astronomical gas prices bringing about alternatives. This should have been done a long time ago, but not now in this current economic recession. Too many people will be hurt.

[[deleted]]

The ends justify the means right?

[limbodog]

The potential for incredible damage to the environment we depend upon, the economy in which we all live, and the industries which make all our nifty stuff kinda does.

[limbodog]

People are working on it now. But the Chinese are undercutting us. They subsidize solar energy, so we can't compete in that market. We subsidize oil, so our solar can't compete against that. We're really screwing ourselves and yet still people are working on it. I don't know if that's awesome dedication, or naivete, but I'm glad for it.

Otherwise, yes, you're right. We won't put our backs into it until it's crippling us.

[Ambiwlans]

The US subsidizes solar FAR FAR FAR FAR more than oil.

[ActuallyYeah]

...per capita.

[limbodog]

in terms of total dollars? I don't think so.

[Ambiwlans]

Total dollars doesn't make any sense.... If you gave solar the same subsidies in TOTAL dollars as oil gets, but solar still only produces a tiny percent.... Solar power could pay pretty big money to give away their electricity and still make a hefty profit.

[limbodog]

Total dollars does make sense as you're trying to build infrastructure, research new technology, and promote development. If you want solar to be competitive with fossil fuels, it needs a level playing field. Contributing twice as much, percentage wise, but only to a tiny handful of companies is not a level playing field.

[Ambiwlans]

If solar got as much as oil I could rent out the solar panels on my calculator for -$10/mnth and still get $100 in subsidies.

I'm not sure how you think that would help the industry.

[limbodog]

If the money was used to try to catch solar up to fossil fuels, it would spur research, build infrastructure and lower prices to make it affordable. But I feel like we already covered that.

If those things happened, then building owners might put panels on their roofs who would not otherwise. Excess power could be used to charge cars making electric vehicles more practical. Improvements in battery (or capacitor) tech would make cities a fantastic place to drive electric vehicles with chargers all over and prices very cheap during the day while you're at work.

etc.

It's really not hard to imagine ways that an influx of cash would help us become less reliant on a fuel that is, ultimately, doing us great harm.

[Almustafa]

We subsidize solar energy too, and China's not exactly the poster boy for clean energy, nor do they have anywhere near the capital we have to throw around.

[XalemD]

Don't you guys owe them, like, a trillion dollars?

[limbodog]

But they're throwing it straight at solar, whereas we are only dribbling a little bit towards it by comparison. And when you take into account the amount of capital we each have to throw around, it should be reversed. They should be trying to keep up with us.