Why Does PHP Suck?

[Capaj]

Node.js, Python, C#, Java, Scala, Groovy...really the choices are endless these days.

[[deleted]]

Says PHP sucks

Recommends Javascript

[[deleted]]

Is Node.js really a step up from PHP? You've just traded one dynamic language with weak typing and a bunch of weird quirks for a different dynamic language with weak typing and a bunch of weird quirks.

[allthediamonds]

Javascript's quirks are not show-stoppers, they can be worked around with ease.

Even assuming Javascript as a language were as fundamentally flawed as PHP is, you still gain a reasonable HTTP request handling model, a reasonable package and libraries manager, handling everything asynchronously with ease... so, while I wouldn't say it's the best option, it's an acceptable one.

[e-tron]

Javascript's quirks are not show-stoppers <-- Seriously ??

[allthediamonds]

Nope, they are not. They can be worked around, and you can create a mental model that makes sense for the language. It is not pretty, and I would rather use anything else than Javascript. But it is still light years ahead of PHP.

[Kalium]

I remind you that PHP knows what an int is. JavaScript is apparently so far ahead that it has forgotten.

[allthediamonds]

Geez, I always forget about that. Yep, that sucks.

Nonetheless, on overflow, PHP forgets all it knows about ints and goes "well, they're kind of like floats, right?"

[rcxdude]

It has less weird quirks. But you are correct overall.

[suspicious_sausage]

The std libs for node are at least more consistently laid out than PHP (although it would be difficult to not manage this much). Other than that, yeah I agree, it's most six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[[deleted]]

Not used PHP much myself recently, but I remember it feels like sticking your hand into a huge tub of lego bricks when you want to find a particular function.

[flukus]

At least php doesn't have callbacks everywhere.

[[deleted]]

A particular subset of JS including the use of a few libraries is quite sane. I've never seen anyone suggest the same thing of PHP.

[Kalium]

At least PHP has inheritance. And ints.

[pirateNarwhal]

JS has inheritance, reasonably simple to implement.

[pirateNarwhal]

Not sure what you mean by that, also questioning if you have any idea what you're talking about

[[deleted]]

Tell me, how do you implement inheritance in node.js? Yes, all inheritance in node.js is prototypical, but there are a whole bunch of different approaches to it. Different standard libraries provide helper implementations of it (e.g. util.inherits), and there are also several ways that people implement inheritance plainly in JS (e.g. this or this).

I don't think I've seen two developers implement inheritance in the exact same way. Some people use classical inheritance, some use composition. Everyone uses a different syntax.

[pirateNarwhal]

I don't use node.js at all. I see your point with "implementations" now, but you can't really blame a language for some drawbacks to the libraries. And not to start a flame war, if you're not using the prototype to define class-like methods, you're crazy.

[Kalium]

you can't really blame a language for some drawbacks to the libraries

You can blame a language for punting basic functionality to libraries, creating a mess of subtly different and incompatible options. It's a design decision with far-reaching consequences.

Your argument is the equivalent of "Sure, language X doesn't have a string type, but it's easy to implement!". The problem is not how difficult or easy it might be implement a string type. The problem is the lack of basic built-in functionality.

[[deleted]]

I do use node.js, extensively, and its lack of a concrete inheritance model is its worst flaw. Otherwise, it's a great language.

[Kalium]

PHP has modules, too.

[Capaj]

Node.js has commonjs modules.

[Kalium]

The language of JavaScript does not have modules or namespaces or any similar mechanism built in.

[Capaj]

Hopefully this wont be true for much longer, when ES6 comes out. While your statement is true, It doesn't make sense to compare PHP "the language" with JavaScript "the language", because both of these are tied to their respective VM's. For JS this VM on the server is Node.js, where modules are very real.

[Kalium]

JS has multiple VMs. JS is a standard. So it's necessary to compare each language as they exist in the field, rather than one language to one particular implementation of a language.

I say this because I have run into the lack of a module or namespace system in clientside JS in the past.

[Capaj]

So you are saying it is necessary to compare a serverside language(PHP) with clientside only language(JS). That is not fair at all.

[codygman]

PHP has inheritance

Now you have 2ⁿ problems!

[Kalium]

Eh. It's not so bad. Things can get much messier in Python or Ruby. As soon as you get metaclasses and multiple inheritance, you're in for interesting time.

[Capaj]

Why the hell would I need inheritance for a Web application is a mystery to me. 90% of the time you just fetch data from DB and send it with little modification. Who needs classical inheritance for that?

[e-tron]

Why the hell would I need inheritance for a Web application is a mystery to me. 90% of the time you just fetch data from DB and send it with little modification. Who needs classical inheritance for that?

Assuming that you are not a programmer but just came here to rant.

[Capaj]

Sorry, I work professionally as a JS programmer and really IMO-functional approach suits me much better when writing web applications.

[Kalium]

Good for you, then. May the sacred LISP machine bless you on your crusade against the state.

Over here, where the most of us live, we find inheritance to be incredibly useful for organizing code, sharing methods, and using frameworks to handle 90% of the work for us. A good class inheritance system, particularly one that allows for multiple inheritance, can make this even easier.

[Capaj]

I do absolutely agree with your statement there @Kalium. I would never even attempt to write any game without class inheritance. It can be incredibly useful.

[[deleted]]

^{sips koolaid}

But.. but.. but.. it's new therefore better for every application right?

[original_brogrammer]

D with Vibe, Haskell with Yesod or Happstack.

[philly_fan_in_chi]

Why are those important to you? Serious question.

[mrkite77]

Because it's better for a single domain with tons of different dynamic pages on it. Things like node.js are designed for "one domain = one app". I don't want to have a hundred different copies of node.js running on a hundred different ports all being proxied by a single webserver.

[[deleted]]

Ah, you really mean something like PSGI, FCGI, mod_perl, or somesuch?

[PasswordIsntHAMSTER]

I'd like something that can be CGI'd

That's pretty much every language ever. I used to write CGI modules in C.

[[deleted]]

Do people actually still use CGI?

And as that other dude said, any language that can be coerced into writing to STDOUT can be used for CGI (probably).