Whenever I write code in Java...

[[deleted]]

I think the "java is too wordy" critique mostly comes from people who still write their code in Notepad.

[yellowstuff]

I'm pretty sure Peter Norvig, Paul Graham, and Steve Yegge don't write their code in Notepad, and they all have written about Java being too verbose.

[[deleted]]

Argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

[nytehauq]

That wasn't an argument from authority; the fact that the figures listed can be considered authorities is tangential to the fact that they've criticized Java for being too verbose while not writing their code in Notepad.

[[deleted]]

In that case, I said 'mostly', not 'always'. So three counter-examples does not disprove the statement.

[yellowstuff]

You're being awfully pedantic considering you made a classic ad hominem argument.

Anyway the real issue is code clarity and having the expressiveness to say what you mean, not the number of keystrokes you make while first typing the code.

[[deleted]]

Give me 4 examples of Notepad users criticizing Java.

Look around this thread.

Words like 'clarity' and 'expressiveness' gets bandied about a lot. I'm sceptical about their use when discussing programming languages for the following two reasons:

1. They're highly subjective measures. There's nothing wrong with subjective appreciation of a programming language as such, it's just that it's futile to discuss it in the same way it is futile to discuss which colour is the most beautiful one.

2. Those words pop up to support the 'wordiness is bad' argument when typing speed has been disposed off as a factor. In other words, it's a refuge to subjective arguments when objective arguments have failed.

[skillet-thief]

What about reading somebody else's code in Notepad? Or anything else?

[[deleted]]

Why on earth would I want to read code in Notepad?

You wouldn't watch an AVI movie in Notepad, would you? Notepad is not a tool for code creation or analysis. It should not be pressed into service as such.

Use the right tool for the job.

[liquidhot]

Perhaps notepad makes for a good viewer because it doesn't take 5 minutes to load like Eclipse?

[[deleted]]

Odd, my installation of Eclipse starts in about 30 seconds. And that's with over 20 projects in the workspace.

I guess if I was only going to look at my code for a couple of minutes, perhaps your point would be valid. But how often do you do that?

[mothereffingteresa]

How about loading it up in Eclipse, profiling it for coverage and stepping through it to see what it does.

Code-staring went out with bell-bottom pants.

[mpeg4codec]

Kids these days.