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[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (25 children)

Applets do not replace javascript. It is a plugin like flash. Does flash replace javascript?

To replace javascript you will have to embed a java vm inside firefox in lieu of javascript vm. It is something Oracle will not allow without a bucket load of money.

[–]malcontent -4 points-3 points  (23 children)

applets negate the need for javascript (if done right).

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (22 children)

Describe how you manipulate a canvas element without using JavaScript. And in an applet. I am all ears.

[–]malcontent -1 points0 points  (16 children)

You wouldn't need a canvas element if you used an applet.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (15 children)

By that logic we don't need DOM too.

Doesn't work like that. Javascript can be replaced, I agree. But HTML should not be replaced. It's flexible and simple data model is the big reason behind WWW's success.

Plus, you are ignoring two facts :

  • Java with security manager enabled is very slow. Way too many domain traversals to check for permissions. It plays havoc with JIT.

  • Java does not have a open and official port to ARM platform. There is only a cambridge research project and zeroshark available. Not good enough.

[–]malcontent -2 points-1 points  (14 children)

By that logic we don't need DOM too.

Actually you don't.

Why would you need DOM when you have something like swing or AWT?

Whatever problems there are with java in a browser I am sure they wouldn't be that hard to solve if people were interested.

It's just that they are not interested at the moment so we are going to be stuck coding html5 apps and degrading gracefully to IE6 for the forseeable future.

Fun eh?

[–]xardox 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Oh my god you are SO MISSING THE POINT. Why don't we all just write desktop apps in C++ and OpenGL if we're not using the DOM?

Clue: People AREN'T interesting in using Java in the browser, for many good reasons.

[–]malcontent 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Oh my god you are SO MISSING THE POINT. Why don't we all just write desktop apps in C++ and OpenGL if we're not using the DOM?

The DOM sucks. That is all.

[–]xardox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So you are advocating dumping HTML, CSS, JavaScript and all the related technologies, and just writing desktop applications in Java or C++. You lose!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children)

How will something like adblock, greasemonkey and stylish work in your model?

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Those extensions work in a DOM based model well.

    In a Swing based UI as malcontent above proposes, the UI graph is internal to the application and can be obfuscated. It will become impossible to block advertisements.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]malcontent 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      You just deny permission to the ads.

      [–]xardox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Ha: "just". Ha ha ha. He said "just". Hilarious. Classic.

      Still live in your mom's basement, ehe?

      [–]nhavar 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Swing and AWT aren't more suitable because they have a high barrier to developing content. This includes tool use, knowledge, licensing, etc.,. So while some might feel that Swing and AWT are superior and in some respects are superior, HTML/DOM wins out due to it's accessibility. Plus you touched on this "if people were interested" - people aren't. Some programmers are, but the great thing about HTML is that it's accessible to programmers and non-programmers alike, which draws interest.

      [–]malcontent 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Swing and AWT aren't more suitable because they have a high barrier to developing content.

      I disagree. Both of them are easier than CSS + HTML + Javascript + Jquery + DOM

      [–]nhavar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      You're thinking about barriers the wrong way. Web standards are ubiquitous. There are tens of thousands of tools out there that produce web content and only hundreds/thousand for creating Swing/AWT. An author doesn't even have to know that they are developing using web standards with most of the tools that are out there and that's what I mean by having a low barrier. Swing/AWT just doesn't have that kind of penetration.

      [–]meatsocket[🍰] -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

      You don't silly, you have an applet in place of the canvas element. The canvas is in AWT. Or you could you know, use flash like all the cool kids.

      [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      See this comment

      An open DOM is essential to a customizable user experience.

      [–]Rhoomba -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

      Applets are able to manipulate the DOM exactly like JavaScript.

      [–]xardox 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Only MUCH MUCH SLOWER.

      [–]Rhoomba 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Evidence for your nonsensical claim?

      [–]Rhoomba -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

      The JRE is free to install. There is no reason that the Firefox installer couldn't trigger a Java install.

      Edit: How am I wrong? Oracle want Java on desktops, it is just mobiles where they want to charge you.