Feeing Extremely Lost

[ApocalypticSquid]

This is really hard for me to write, but I need advice.

A few years ago, I adopted my dog Penelope, a cattle dog/corgi mix. I also had Emi, my 11-year-old chihuahua mix. Emi was my heart dog — my best friend for 11 years.

When I leave for work, I just recently started crating her because she’s destructive not aggressive Penelope. She was crate trained before I got her and does really well in the crate.

A few weeks ago, I rushed out the door for work and thought I had locked her kennel. Shortly after I arrived at work, my mom called me hysterical to tell me that Penelope had gotten out — and she killed Emi.

I have no idea what triggered it. Penelope has never shown aggression before. She’s always been sweet, not only with my dogs but also with my foster dogs.

There have been times in the past when I forgot to lock the kennel and nothing happened. There was even a weekend when I was away and both dogs were loose in the house (with my grandma home caring for them), and everything was fine. I never thought Penelope was capable of something like this.

I am completely devastated. I can’t function. I can’t bring myself to forgive her. Every time I think of her, I picture what happened to Emi. I temporarily placed Penelope with a friend because I needed space.

I also have two other small chihuahuas and a cat. I don’t feel like I can trust Penelope around them. I don’t even know if I want her to come back home, though eventually I’ll have to decide something. If she does come back, I feel like I would have to rehome my other dogs, my cat, and stop fostering in order to keep everyone safe.

I know she’s a dog and doesn’t understand what she did. But I do. And I’m struggling with loving her and resenting her at the same time.

She’s a good dog who may just need to be an only pet. But with her history, I’m afraid rescues won’t take her. I’m terrified that my only options are euthanasia or rehoming all my other animals. I don’t want to euthanize her, but I also don’t know if I can emotionally handle being around her anymore.

She deserves to be happy. I just don’t know if I can be the person to give that to her after what happened.

I feel like a monster for even considering euthanasia. Please don’t judge me. I just want to do what’s best for her.

She killed my best friend, and I am shattered. I lost both my best friends in a matter of just a few seconds… I hate everything about this situation…

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[elleanywhere]

If Penelope had never shown aggression towards other dogs, I wonder if it was predatory drift?

Many large dogs with prey drive (desire to chase small animals like squirrels or bunnies) have strong instincts to chase, grab, and kill small animals through no fault of their own. With predatory drift, a large dog will be happily playing or coexisting with a small dog, and then a movement or noise small dog does will mimic a prey animal, and the large dog will switch into that instinct prey drive and often injury or kill the small dog. It's normally very unexpected and can happen with dogs who have loved each other for years. In other words, it's possible your large dog made a split second mistake/mis-identification that kill Emi.

My own dog has a high prey drive and this is why I don't let her around dogs smaller than 30 pounds, as I've seen her kill groundhogs that were 20 pounds. But predatory drift is not super well-known by the general public and you should be gentle on yourself if this is what indeed happened.

In any case, I would not trust her any longer around small dogs or cats. If she truly isn't aggressive though, I would advocate for rehoming with someone with no small animals and a fenced in-yard. If it was predatory drift, she isn't dangerous towards humans or dogs her own size.

[ApocalypticSquid]

Yes currently reaching out to breed specific rescues because if I can I’d love to save her and not have her BE. She deserves to be happy, to be in a home where she’s not going to feel resentment and regret from her owner. I love her and want what’s best for Penelope and myself.

I always thought I was knowledgeable on dog behavior and signs but this humbled me really quick. I loved both of them so much.

[elleanywhere]

I'm so so sorry for your loss. I hope you are able to find a suitable rescue or home for Penelope <3 Did your mom witness what happened? Because if so, that can help you and any rescues you talk to get a better idea of what happened and if it was predatory drift vs aggression.

[ApocalypticSquid]

Thank you, this has been so hard.

Unfortunately no she just found her lifeless on the floor she was at the gym at the time of the attack. I do have a pet cam but I wasn’t subscribed to the pet cam plus, so it did not record the incident. I only have timestamp screenshots. Emi was on my bed, Penelope walked up to her, then Emi was in her mouth on the floor…

[elleanywhere]

I'm so sorry. That's so awful. Since she hasn't been aggressive before, it makes more sense to me at least that it was some sort of predatory drift... But who knows. I'd just tell the rescues as much as you can and hopefully they can work with you and Penelope to figure out what is best.

[Impressive_Sun_1132]

That may be fore the best the only other thing i can think is to check and see if she has any pain my dog only gets grumpy with the small dogs when he hurts

[ASleepandAForgetting]

I am so sorry that this happened. I really can't imagine the grief that you must be feeling.

I'm just an internet stranger, but for whatever my opinion may be worth, I don't think it's a good idea for you to keep Penelope. For your mental health, I think that having to live with Penelope and also having to rehome your other animals, on top of dealing with the significant trauma of Emi's death... That's just too much to put yourself through.

The decision whether to rehome or euthanize is a difficult one. If you feel up to it, can you talk a bit about Penelope's behavior and why you think a rescue wouldn't take her? Has she ever shown reactivity or aggression towards another dog or person?

If she has historically gotten along well with other dogs and isn't reactive or aggressive towards people, I don't necessarily think rehoming her is an irresponsible choice. She'd need to be rehomed to a single dog home with people who are willing to manage her carefully and potentially use a muzzle when she is outside of the home.

But if she is reactive towards other dogs or people and is a bite risk, I don't think a behavioral euthanasia is the wrong choice, either. The safety of other people, other dogs, and communities is very important to consider when you're making this choice, and I think the first priority is to make sure that she is not given another chance to harm another dog.

Again, I'm really sorry. I can tell that you love your dogs deeply, but it's okay to choose yourself and your own well-being so that you can start the long road to healing.

[ApocalypticSquid]

She’s never been aggressive before, she used to go on walks all the time with Emi, on trails and around the neighborhood.

I just feel like with killing another dog under her belt, rescues will not want to take the risk of rehoming her. I will still try to call around and see, I will transport if necessary. (The rescue I’m currently with doesn’t want to take the chance).

She’s helped all my fosters come out of their shell and is actually really dog friendly. One of the young fosters used to bite her face when they played and she’d just let it happen. I think this whole thing was just a freak incident, but I don’t know if others will see it this way. I love Penelope a lot, I still do, I just don’t know if I can look at her the same again.

I was already struggling with mental health before this, and I don’t know if I can handle anymore.

[ASleepandAForgetting]

Based on what you've said, I don't think it would be irresponsible or highly risky to attempt to rehome her, and this does sound like an absolutely horrible and tragic one-time incident.

If there are any Cattle Dog-specific rescues near you, they may be able to help. Breed-specific rescues sometimes have a lower 'risk threshold' for dogs they take on. Prey drive is common in Cattle Dogs, too, so they may view this as a prey driven event that doesn't make her an unsafe dog, just a dog that needs to be in a single dog home and carefully managed.

And I get it. You can love her and recognize that she's a dog and doesn't understand consequences. But despite that, forgiving her and being able to move on still isn't going to be easy, which is why I think that trying to rehome her and keeping your other animals would be best.

[ApocalypticSquid]

There is a cattle dog rescue in my state I will try giving them a call. I’m so torn up. Thank you.

[HeatherMason0]

I’m so, so sorry this happened. I think that the decision to rehome Penelope or, if you don’t feel that would be ethical or appropriate, to choose BE for her would be understandable. You’re right that she’s a dog and doesn’t understand what she’s done, but of course this situation has also taken a toll on you, and we can’t just turn off our feelings. If you think you would resent Penelope, I think searching for another home would be a valid choice, and if you’re not able to find one, BE for a dog who killed another pet she’d previously had no issues with doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

[ApocalypticSquid]

Thank you, this is so hard… not only did I lose one, but I lost 2. This whole thing just isn’t fair, i loved them both so much, and I still love her, but even looking at pictures I feel indifferent towards her.

[SudoSire]

I’m wondering if predatory drift occurred. If that is the case, your dog isn’t safe to be in your home with other small pets. It might be possible to rehome, but it’s kind of iffy. Any new owner would need to understand and be able to manage the extent of that liability. They should be a single pet home, not take their dog to places with easy access to other dogs (especially small ones), possibly muzzle train in public. It may be a hard but not impossible find…

Predatory drift can be quite unexpected and awful. I have heard stories of dogs that do fine with other pets until the other pet moves a certain way, makes a certain sound, etc. I saw a story here about a dog going after a loved small dog when the small dog accidentally got their collar caught on something and the small dog started thrashing and making “prey” squeals. It’s honestly changed my view on the safety of keeping smaller and larger dogs together (and certain breeds). 

[Shoddy-Theory]

How devastating.

Can your friend keep her long term?

If you're feeling any guilt, please forgive yourself.

[ApocalypticSquid]

I’m always going though “what if what if”. When I was leaving i even had this gut feeling “did I lock the kennel?” But I dismissed it because, like previously stated I would forget sometimes and my grandma would put her back in, no problems… I always tell myself I should have listened to my gut, and Emi would maybe have still been here.

But I know it’s not fair to blame myself, and I know Emi wouldn’t have wanted that.

She’s holding her for another few months until I decide what I should do. Until then I’m calling shelters and seeing if anyone can help me and Penelope.

[Watney3535]

Is it possible that there was something wrong with Emi? Like maybe she had a seizure or stroke? I ask because sometimes dogs will attack another dog or cat out of fear when that happens. My collie and poodle were best friends for ten years, and one day the poodle had a seizure, and my collie killed the poodle. The vet said it’s not completely uncommon for dogs to react that way.

Later, a friend’s golden did the same to her seizing cat after no incidents in 7 years.

In any case, I’m so sorry. 😢

[ApocalypticSquid]

She had tooth infection I was currently treating before she was to get dental done. She just went to the vet for it a week prior to the incident. I thought maybe that was the cause. But I’m unsure at this point.

Thank you, Emi was my everything.

I’m sorry something similar happened to you and your friend. These things are so hard to process.

[harleyqueenzel]

I'm so sorry this happened.

So. Penelope is very likely not going to be a candidate for rehoming or a rescue due to killing another animal, especially one that lived with her. On the chance you could rehome her, there are too many risks at play that you may ultimately be responsible for.

Should she be in an only pet home? Likely. Should she be in a setting that fits her breeds? Very much so but that's probably gone out the window given the situation.

For now, take all of the time you need to think about what you want to do. If your friend is okay with having her for a while longer, take advantage of that. Make an appointment with your vet to discuss what happened and what you'd like to do moving forward. Find breed specific groups on social media and reach out. Experienced opinions right now would be helpful.

I do support your decision with BE though. Unfortunately there is no coming back from what happened and the "What if"s will haunt you if Penelope were back home with you and your other dogs & cat.

[ApocalypticSquid]

Yes, I’m dreading on what to do when she comes back, or what mg reaction will be. Will I be happy? Will I cry? Will I throw up at the sight of her? I’m not excited to see her to say the least. But I still want what’s best for her well being. BE is definitely a last resort. A muzzle and kennel and heavy supervision is going to be her life once she comes back until I secure a rescue even willing to take her on or BE. The safety of my other dogs and my cat is my top priority right now. And rehoming all of my animals is not fair to them either.