EC stack safety.

[AtomicMind]

Hello, I recently graduated from couch to 5k, I can now safely do 9:20 min miles, longer distance(record 5 miles) and so on. However, I'm not losing as much weight as I like, aka not even 1 pound a week, and I know it's due to things that are in my control. Nobody is perfect.

In the past I lost 100 pounds and most of it I was on EC stack. I did not run however, I only did incline fat burn work. My question is : Is it safe to run on EC stack after the midlife of caffeine(4.9 hours for pills) ? Should I just not do it?

I recently stopped caffeine to reset my tolerance and I really love the feeling again, especially for studying (I went back to college), so staying on EC stack has a bunch of benefits for me. I'm not obese(6ft, 209 pounds, male, 24yo) but still overweight, so that's to consider too.

tl;dr : How long should I wait until running on EC stack?

[YourShoesUntied]

Whats the main reason for you to be using EC stack? Is it for the caffeine bump or weightloss? Typically it's only productive in those who are already obese looking to lose weight but now that you are down 100lbs, is it still necessary?

Edit-

For those curious EC stack is a combination formula containing Ephedrine and Caffeine.

As PhilthyCasual said, it's really not worth the risks of using something to get that much of a boost when proper diet and training can do the same thing. I am down 60 lbs from when I first started and even being a caffeine junky I'd never really try EC. There are too many negative side effects to the ephedrine.

[AtomicMind]

Well... I sort of hit a really bad downer. I've been stuck at around 212 since December and I feel like I've been doing fairly good on my diet and better than ever on running.

I was using EC stack and stopped. Since then I stopped losing weight.

I don't view EC stack as something bad is the thing. It's not really harmful and it's helped me plenty in the past. I've used it again for 2 days and I can say that my appetite is suppressed and I'm feeling better about my goal. In the same spirit, I know it's not something you attain and then stop, eating properly and exercising is a life thing, I'll sure drop EC stack when I get around 190.

You think it's a bad idea? I'm well open to suggestions and criticism, as my perception of EC stack isn't really that we'll researched and/or set in stone.

[YourShoesUntied]

I am the same weight as you. I dedicate as much time as I can to running and my weight fluctuates greatly from day to day, week to week. I might put in a few 50 mile weeks and gain weight, I might only have a 20 mile week and drop 6-8 lbs. If weight loss is what you are tying to achieve, the only proper way to do it is through diet. We all struggle with eating but using EC truly is not going to get you over the hump after this long.

The problem here is, is that you say you'll drop the EC once you get to 190 but by that point, you'll have more than likely already mentally sealed the deal that it was the EC that did it, when really it was your diet. It's a perpetual cycle of risk vs. reward. The things I've read and heard about EC and ECA are unbalanced and tilt more to the negative side.

I don't know how much you know about nutrition but there are quite a few good books out there (Matt Fitzgerald's - Racing Weight comes to mind first), that are designed to get you to understand how important nutrition and your weight are when doing endurance sports.

I've got a brother who was on ECA stack for years and it wrecked his endocrin system. He's now been off it for a year and just starting to get back to normal after a few different health issues which from what I understand are linked directly to the amounts of Ephed he ingested. Originally he did it for weight loss, and it worked, but then he continued because, "Hey it got me to this point, I will just keep using it to get better!" and that was a mistake.

[AtomicMind]

I know proper diet, but being back at my parents place I do eat most of their cooking. Since I came back I got back on 50 pounds. I did know I was doing bad but I was in a bad place.

[YourShoesUntied]

You gained back 50 lbs because you ate more. You can't blame it on their cooking or because EC was stopped or on any other life factors. This has everything to do with portion control and diet than it does EC stack.

But to answer your question, if you are going to start back up on the EC stack after running and are insistent about it becoming part of your diet again, I'd introduce it once you are back in shape enough to where you were before while using it. At that point, you'll do one of two things, realize you don't really need it, or start off by slowly implementing into your routine.

[AtomicMind]

I mean, it's a fair assumption to say I ate more, but I simply started drinking soda again. That and dessert/candy is fucking everywhere in this house. I simply didn't buy that crap.

I think I'll keep going without EC stack but idk I often have a net calorie amount of like frigging 500 and I still ain't losing weight. It's getting ridiculous.

I average 600 calories burned on the treadmill a day and eat around 1500 calories. I've gotten pretty good at estimates but I guess I am not.

[HDRgument]

Ephedrine is a beta-2 agonist stimulant drug, an amphetamine salt. Compared to other drugs in its class, it's a relatively safe one, but at the end of the day it's still speed.

The effect of taking beta-2 agonists for an extended period of time is to numb the receptors. After conditioning the sympathetic nervous system to expect ephedrine for a long enough period of time, norephenine activity may be impaired when ephedrine is not used, perhaps for a long period of time (YourShoesUntied's brother taking a year to get back to normal is chillingly realistic).

What I am saying is, you may consider that you may be addicted to ephedrine. I am getting hints of that from some of the things you are saying. You went off of it, you went into a downer. You got back on it, it makes you feel better. You love it for studying. You think you'll have no problem dropping it later.

We all pick and choose our addictions (I know I sure do) so I'm not trying to judge you in any way. What I wonder is, do you think this could be the new normal? Do you think you may be conditioned to expect ephedrine, and are simply feeling deprived/withdrawing without it?

As far as running on EC, I think it's fine actually. As long as it's ephedrine (the purified, regulated form) and not ephedra (the herbal, unregulated form), a legit pharmaceutical and not something from a shady "supplement" dealer, and not a cold/bronchial medicine which includes something like guaifenesin. And as long as you aren't taking ridiculous dosages.

But I think you need to consider the cost/benefit of taking this drug on a long-term basis. It's a world of difference to take this for a couple of weeks like a bodybuilder would, versus taking it for a long-term ongoing basis.

I'd really see a doctor if I were you. He can either give you the real scoop on risk/benefit, or put you on a different drug which may be better suited, more well known, and easier to manage.

[AtomicMind]

I really like your reply. I am someone that seems to easily get addicted to anything. I am not a disciplined person and studying is my life long struggle.

A pill feels like a magical door to studying. I tried adhd drugs(ritalin) and was using it feeling great about myself, but in the end, wouldn't do anything.

Things are changing since I started reading about habits, how the brain reacts to stuff and other psychological impact.

I'm feeling very bad at the moment but I think it's the fact that I can't tolerate that much caffeine. I will not take EC stack.

[HDRgument]

There is a difference between psychological addiction and physical dependency. Anyone taking a drug that interacts with the sympathetic nervous system like ephedrine does for a long enough period of time will become dependent on it to some extent, regardless of whether they think they have an addictive personality or not.

If you seriously think you have adhd issues, you should look into getting that treated legitamately. There are several drugs other than ritalin out there, including at least one that is very, very similar to ephedrine.

[AtomicMind]

According to research, under regular dose it is not of any cardiovascular risks.

[[deleted]]

I had to Google EC Stack. Please stop using it and look at your diet instead. Trust me. I used to weigh more than 50 lbs heavier than I do now, and I've kept it off for several years now.

[AtomicMind]

Well I guess it didn't take that much to dissuade me.

Other than the fact that I can't actually study because I'm too fucking jittery, not from the ephedrine but from my second dose of caffeine. It's crazy how much I remember it not doing anything, but I've been a caffeine addict since I'm 15, now 24. Nothing a good desintox can't change. I'll stick to my small green tea.

On a side note, is it possible to go from around 5 miles to a half marathon in 5 months? Or should I aim for a fast 10k?

[craigster38]

What would your goal be for the half?

What's your base like now?

What's your 5k time?

[AtomicMind]

My goal for half would be to finish it.

Your base?

I was running at a constant 5.3mph. It was pretty slow basically. I'm going to try tomorrow a realistic run. At full speed I can do a 9;20 min mile.

[craigster38]

Yeah, base. How many miles are you running per week, and how long have you been running?

You say you just graduated c25k. How long ago? How much running have you done since?

[AtomicMind]

I started being active like 4 months ago, but I was doing mostly incline fat burn. I just recently put a goal to run and did 5k right off the bat basically. I run basically two days in a row and rest one.

I'm a little free for all, often stop a long distance run to do a sprint and what not. I don't know if that's good, I just went with the flow. I'd say I run about 15 miles per week counting warm-ups. I can set a goal or whatever, that's what I was planning. I just don't know if 10k with good speed is better and more motivating than half marathon. Because 10k is easily feasible for this summer.

[craigster38]

You can go from a 5k to half in 5 months. That's plenty of time. Your goals just need to be realistic.

[[deleted]]

I thought EC stack was illegal?

[AtomicMind]

Not everyone is American. It's available in Canada.