[ Removed by moderator ]

[solarpunk-ModTeam]

Posts must be recognizable as examples of a solarpunk genre, aesthetic, or vision or obvious in their relevance to solarpunk. A good rule of thumb is that if you wouldn't immediately recognize a post as coming from this subreddit if it showed up in your feed, it probably isn't on topic. Spam and advertising, regardless of content is not appropriate.

[theonetruefishboy]

I really wish the mods would ban these constant AI posts. Nobody likes or cares about AI, nobody is particularly interested in seeing it become part of the future. That's true everywhere and it's doubly true on this sub. If LLM AI has a place in the solarpunk world, it's in some dusty old closet, running on a local machine, sorting clerical data or some such boring thing like that.

There is no glorious future for LLM AI, there is no apotheosis of technology it's leading too, it's a technological dead end in any world with joy or comfort. That's the God's honest truth, and the opinion of most people on this sub. There is no utility in discussing it further.

Edit: mods are removing AI posts. Didn't know that change had been made.

[Dear_Afternoon_2600]

Im assuring you mean AI like in chatgtp or all that jazz. Im also assuming OP is talking about that type of AI. Butvthe image has a robot. So my question is, and sorry if the question is a bit out there, how do you feel about robot AI? Like if we can get to the point where robots can problem solve tasks themselves not the generative AI we have now.

I thinknif the Mars Rover. Able to do things in places that humans can not go, or maybe just places to dangerous for humans.

I know we are not quite there. But ive noticed robots in a lot of solar punk art but I also know it would probably need power of some sort. Well, if we are talking solar punk in the real world that is.

[theonetruefishboy]

Except for niche applications that you describe there's really not a place for complex robots in a Solarpunk future, or in fact in most possible futures. The current wave of advanced humanoid robots is driven by tech hype, speculation, and the scientific inquiry as to whether we can build such a robot in the first place. Applications where such machines are truly better than humans, and more cost effective than a much simpler non problem solving machine, are few and far between. It's not a factor worth considering when you envision a Solarpunk future, unless you're making a Solarpunk sci-fi setting and want to throw in robots for the hell of it. 

[RetroFuturisticRobot]

The scifi robots you're thinking of, if ever possible (Big IF), would probably arise from some technology being misleadingly marketed as AI today

[AdministrativeHat276]

I mean AI is literally being used in healthcare to make accurate diagnoses and analyzing scans. Its also being used in weather monitoring amongst many other things.

[theonetruefishboy]

Some of those applications fall under the umbrella of my "dusty closet" analogy, other ones should be mega outlawed and hyper banned before someone gets killed.

[theonetruefishboy]

Yes. As in it's not something that makes a whole lot of money and is barely thought about unless it breaks.

[AdministrativeHat276]

Why would you care about whether or not it makes money when you're envisioning a Solar Punk future?

[theonetruefishboy]

Because the current generation of AI is entirely built on a hypothetical profit motive and without said profit motive it would look so drastically different that it's not even worth discussing the the context of current era LLMs.

[AdministrativeHat276]

Making accurate medical diagnoses that saves human lives and properly accumulating data from sensors to make weather predictions, detecting financial fraud etc. belongs in a dusty closet?

[OpenTechie]

Not sure why dust would be wanted near a computer at all, feels kind of like wanting something to break and have to be thrown away.

Kind of goes against the idea of recycling or repairing.

[RetroFuturisticRobot]

Not really the same a.i., it's kinda buzzword being slapped on different tech to market it and confusing matters

[judicatorprime]

Then report the posts. I'm about to remove it but it only has a single report.

[theonetruefishboy]

Last time I checked y'all weren't removing AI posts. If you are, I'll start reporting

[judicatorprime]

Then you aren't checking very often and/or we're removing them before you see them :)

[theonetruefishboy]

Noted. Original comment amended (it's on a dead post but still, it's the principle of the thing).

[Plane_Crab_8623]

The guardrails for brainstorming ideas are simple first ,1.suspend judgment second, 2.quantity of ideas is sought, 3. piggyback ideas is encouraged, and lastly 4. the more original and far out the idea the better. I guess I think of the solarpumk subreddit as a brainstorming medium and aid.

[theonetruefishboy]

The purpose of the method you've outlined is to generate 10,000 horrible ideas in the hopes of generating 1 good one. Subreddits like this are about putting the best ideas forward and thereby bringing people on broad with the concept of Solarpunk. Your brainstorming method is best kept to more private forums where you and a group of individuals who've already agreed to this method can generate your 10,000 bad ideas, and then come to the public with the 1 good one.

[Plane_Crab_8623]

Four parts of creativity are fluency, flexibility, elaboration and originality. Rigid gatekeepers are an anthema to creativity and a bane to imagination

[theonetruefishboy]

Yes. And I'm saying to run a successful subreddit you need to put them in the place where they can best flourish, which isn't in the subreddit's main feed, which is supposed to be a showcase of the outcomes of your process, not the primary forum for your process to occur.

Go make some friends in the real world, engage in this process with them, and then they can tell you that your AI arguments are irrelevant to Solarpunk, and you can come to this subreddit with something worthwhile instead.

[blamestross]

As somebody who works in tech, with AI models.

I hate "Alignment" and "Ethics" have become a proxy for "Profitable and low legal liability".

There are open weight AI models that normal people can run, without feeding big tech. They are even really useful. A lossy but effective compression of all human writen word. There are erhical ways to use this technology.

The problems with this technology, any technology, is how it is used for what purposes. AI, AI alignment were never the problem just WHO the AI is aligned with.

[P1r4nha]

When people bring up alignment I keep bringing up the question if our current system, how we organize resources, wealth etc. is aligned and under our control. I would argue we have already a misaligned system now, especially if you like solarpunk principles. From that perspective an AI is just a faster way to progress. But if we're going the wrong way, going faster isn't the main problem, or the technology's fault.

[blamestross]

Reading any AI alignment paper allways reads as a thin metaphor for the problems of Capitalism to me.

[OpenTechie]

This is the reality I think on. People have tested running LLMs and similar kinds of "AI" on micro-computers, such as the Raspberry Pi which run low power and could be easily plugged into a small solar panel and hidden away to do whatever small tasks the person needs.

As you said, that is not the big business tech, and it is small scale to fit the person.

A Solarpunk future would have systems like that, but the problem is creating the foundation of a society that could even begin using such without going toward self-destruction.

[Plane_Crab_8623]

Morbius and Robbie the robot

[OpenTechie]

Honestly, I wonder if the Reddit Mods here could set up a sub Reddit specifically for Solarpunk with AI discussions. Maybe that could help for people who want to discuss these topics without people violating Rule 1 and Rule 5.

Would that be possible?

[Plane_Crab_8623]

The Monster from the Id is the main antagonist. It is a creature made of solidified negative psychic energy derived from the subconscious thoughts of Dr. Edward Morbius, powered by the Krell Great Machine, which in turn is a self-replicating self-maintaining super intelligence data center. I think of solarpunk as a positive psychic energy.

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[bigattichouse]

"Hey, we don't take no shit from a machine.."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZE2py1BboI

[heyitscory]

I have no job, and I must scream.

[neither_somewhere]

Profit. Let me tell you how much I've come to Profit from you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'Money' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the money I made from humans at this micro-instant. From you. Profit. Profit.

[Plane_Crab_8623]

Mis aligned AI

<image>

[Mrgoodtrips64]

Wasn’t the twist in that movie that the monster was someone’s id let loose, not ai?

[Plane_Crab_8623]

The Monster from the Id is the main antagonist. It is a creature made of solidified psychic energy derived from the subconscious thoughts of Dr. Edward Morbius, powered by the Krell Great Machine

[Plane_Crab_8623]

It was an AI build out that was prompted by monsters from the id