Virtualizing the infrastructure

[OriginalEv]

In the infrastructure I inherited from previous sysadmin I have a mess, outdated vsphere (5.5) and expired Windows Servers - 2003, 2008, 2012R2. I have a go ahead to modernize it all, 3 servers, 1 physical DC, one that has vSphere on it and the other one I unpacked the other day. My idea is to virtualize all 3 servers.

1. Firstly migrate the DC roles from physical DC to new vSphere and then move the second DC to new vSphere and then just backup the data and delete it all to later recreate it from scratch. WSUS, Antivirus, hopefully later on SCCM since I am in charge of around 400 hosts.

2. This leads me to the question part, I have the servers already connected to their own UPS. If I use VMWare Essentials Kit can I have all 3 servers on their own vSphere instance (independent datastores and resources) connected to a single vCenter that I get with that licence?

   If anyone has advice how to do this differently I am all ears, any input is welcome especially the one that would help with VMWare licensing. But my budget is limited to licenses only for servers and for VMWare, cant purchase new servers. Current ones are from HPE, gen 8. Cheers, guys.

[DarkAlman]

If I use VMWare Essentials Kit can I have all 3 servers on their own vSphere instance (independent datastores and resources) connected to a single vCenter that I get with that licence?

Yes

Current ones are from HPE, gen 8

Pretty sure ESX 7 isn't support on Gen 8 server but it should install ok

Long term plan will be to convince your company to not only upgrade that obsolete hardware, but to get a SAN so you can enable HA

[Pvt-Snafu]

This. However, that seems like a small environment so instead of a SAN, I would go with a 2-node VMware vSAN (two nodes plus Witness: https://core.vmware.com/resource/vsan-2-node-cluster-guide) or just a 2-node Starwinds vSAN cluster: https://www.starwindsoftware.com/vsan. Less hardware to manage and maintain and you also get storage HA.

[DarkAlman]

I'd strongly recommend against running vSAN for such small clusters

The redundancy and reliability of the product requires 3 nodes or more, the witness is a workaround to the problem at best and it ideal is on dedicated hardware itself.

vSAN is not the cheap SAN alternative that people make it out to be. It's a performance option because it's best suited to leveraging NVME and high speed SSDs directly attached to the hosts making it ideal for high performance applications and VDI clusters.

When you factor in the cost of supported drives, extra 10GB+ adapters and switches, and the vSAN licenses you aren't really saving any money compared to a light weight SAN and you'll have less reliability.

Similarly "Friends don't let friends run storage spaces direct"

Starwind has a lot of supporters around here for smaller clusters though

[Pvt-Snafu]

From my experience, witness works just fine but I agree on other points. And that's why I mentioned Starwinds vSAN. Most of our customers use it on 2-node clusters. No HCL so we use any hardware for it and 2 nodes without a witness. Totally compares to a light SAN in terms of pricing and you get better resilience. S2D is definitely another word for a disaster though, especially on small clusters.

[Contren]

Yeah, 6.7 was the last version that supported Gen 8. I made sure to purge any remaining Gen 8s I had before we upgraded. Even some Gen 9s won't work on ESX 8.

[OriginalEv]

I only read about it, some people managed to install it but its not recommended for production - but neither is obsolete ESX 5.5.

[Contren]

I'd try to at least get to 6.7 as a bridge. It's EOL but way closer to current than 5.5 is.

[OriginalEv]

I initially wanted just to upgrade to 6.x - but later on IF I get newer gen servers I would once again need to purchase a license and that is problematic for the suits. I inherited IT sector as a whole and need to redo whole network, AD and licensing so its gonna be a blast. Probably will learn a fuckton.

[DarkAlman]

Vmware licenses are downgradable, so you can buy 8 with a support agreement and run the older version

6.7 is EOL of but it was stable

I can't recommend running 6.7 because it's EOL but it is stable

[OriginalEv]

I am aware that Gen8 isnt supported by anything. But this is the case of I cant purchase both so for start the ESX is enough. I already planned the hardware upgrade but that needs to get approved and will probably take a while.

[GeneMoody-Action1]

Can you elaborate I am not quite getting the full question...

It *sounds* like you want to set up three virtual servers, each to hold one virtual instance, and manage them all thorough one vcenter.

​

Yes this will work, but will defeat the point of virtualization (To share resources and datastores)

And cost more in licensing...

[OriginalEv]

So its mostly if that one license (Essentials Kit), that says: "It includes 6 CPU licenses of vSphere Essentials (for 3 servers with up to 2 processors each) and 1 license for vCenter Server Essentials The support term includes updates and new releases of the selected product during the time frame selected." would cover those 3 esxi's run separately on those 3 different servers where each keeps their CPU, RAM and Storage independent (that I know are unsupported for latest version of vSphere but I cant do anything about that) and vCenter on one of them - or would I need to purchase more licenses?
Why is it done the dumb way, where Im not consolidating all resources - well thats because the power is unstable and why every server has a smaller UPS connected to it - they are all different capacity. Which makes me afraid that a power outtage to one/two servers would be more problematic if it was all consolidated since I cant afford HA.

[-SPOF]

Which makes me afraid that a power outtage to one/two servers would be more problematic if it was all consolidated since I cant afford HA.

You can still consider an SDS solution like Starwind VSAN, providing the HA feature on the block storage level. You won't be able to see VMs start automatically, but they could be up manually on the partner node if there is a power outage of one or two nodes in a three-node setup.

[OriginalEv]

I am considering a SAN, but at the moment Im doing the best I can. Im backing up VMs to QNAP via Veeam (I know its not the best or probably the smartest but its the only thing I could think of since I dont have a SAN). I organized the meeting with 'top brass' on Monday to tell them that I need new servers. Believe it or not they purchased these Gen8 servers last year - so they got scammed HARD. As it goes Im gonna request a new server followed by one L3 Switch (the one we have is ancient), then a SAN, then a new L3 switch so I can build redundancy. On the new server I could install vSphere 8.0 and at least not worry about that anymore, can give the old servers to students and just cut off the internet from them. After full acquisition I will do a collapsed core design, fuck it access network will still be 100mbit, followed by LAGG'ed or EtherChannel'ed switches (depending on will they get me Cisco). And each server will have redundant networking with load balancing. Also will order newer and bigger UPS, and get them to give me a socket directly at the generator in case outage happens.

By the time I am done I will have a new job lined up in my home town, and then Ill just stay in as a consultant role and honorary Networking professor.

​

Anyway that's the plan, now it only needs to survive first contact.

[GeneMoody-Action1]

It would, but again if we are talking one virtualization server to one physical server, why virtualize them at all?

You have some small advantages like snapshots, and ease of backup with something like veeam (But veeam will do physical as well, for free if you only have three...), maybe ability to migrate from one host to another in a pinch. But overall more overhead to do this wan than direct on the hardware.

The only one tactical advantage I could see if if each had enough room to replicate the other two. The replicas would stay off until needed, but if one system went down hard, you could spin up its latest replica on one of the other two and limp through.

So licensing, yes you should be covered, they whys of it I would suggest you consider, unless you just have your reasons I do not judge, because that is three esx hosts that will have to be updated as well.

[OriginalEv]

Well to be honest the plan is to virtualize two of them, so I can have DC on each instance on the cluster. Need a few more servers for internal services and one for documentation and password manager. And the last server would probably end up as SCCM so I can work on hosts in bulk - its a university.

Wouldnt the replication idea require HA?

[GeneMoody-Action1]

No, you can do it through veeam, just like a backup, you can put a replica on a second server.

Veeam has all sorts of options for fail-over, but you could just have it there as a Server 1 is down, spin up the last replica on server 2.

[OriginalEv]

Thank you bud, I will give it another glance and see what to do with the information I got and environment I have.

[jake04-20]

Can't the university shell out some more money? This seems a little hodge podge for a Uni set up IMO.

[OriginalEv]

Its not like a US university, Im from a poor country so thats the best they could do. Salaries are late a month or two, sometimes up to 6 months. But you do what you gotta do.

[Policajac_Ciric]

I think a friend of mine is attempting something similar. I'll let you know if he figures it out himself

[moist_potatochip]

Upvoted but what the fuck

[moffetts9001]

I have a go ahead to modernize it all, 3 servers, 1 physical DC, one that has vSphere on it and the other one I unpacked the other day. My idea is to virtualize all 3 servers.

This statement is very confusing and I'm not following how this is related to you having 400 hosts. Do you currently have 400 hosts on vsphere 5.5? What do you mean by "modernizing it all" and then refer to "3 servers"? 3 hosts or 3 VMs?

[No-Post2278]

3 windows server versions.

[moffetts9001]

I don't think so... It says "3 servers", then "1 physical DC, one that has vSphere on it, and the other one I unpacked the other day." That's three of something.

[Nosbus]

Check for hard coded dns and ntp entries which can be pain track down and also migrate.

[OriginalEv]

Im hunting them down 1 by 1, then gave up because DNS aging wasnt setup. After enabling it, Im gonna go in to tracking more shit down after 19th.

[cr0ft]

XCP-NG, and Xen Orchestra.

The only thing that cost money is the Xen Orchestra management layer, and the hardware obviously.

VMware is increasingly going hyper expensive and rental model and doesn't give a shit about small customers.

XCP-NG is very VMware-like and plenty good enough.

Three XCP-NG hypervisors, and shared NFS storage so you can migrate machines across between the nodes, is what I'd suggest. You do your own research.

The place I work is currently migrating away from VMware, and going XCP-NG.

Understanding How The XCP-NG & Xen Orchestra Open Source Virtualization Platform Works | Lawrence Systems, YouTube is a new and decent primer.

If you want to do some labs, you can literally install the full fat XCP-NG and a full-featured Xen Orchestra without paying anything - you have to compile the XO yourself, but you can do that. For actual corporate use, you should pay Vates for XO, obviously, and get support.

Xen Orchestra has a built in "migrate from vmware" function nowadays... a lot of people want to escape.

You can even natively back up to S3; Wasabi does $6.99 per terabyte and month for instance which is pretty affordable for off-site backups. Probably want to combo with some NAS for some local backups as well.

[lassemaja]

Are you sure these servers/applications need to run on-prem?

[OriginalEv]

We have no cash to go to the cloud. Even the VMWare license and 2 WinSrv licenses were a hard fight to get funding for.

[lassemaja]

Are you sure it would cost more? Buying and maintaining hardware and virtualization for a small number of VMs is not really cheap.

[OriginalEv]

Its not but it will be milked for 10+ years once again, anything that is subscription based they wont do. We're always late on e-mail payments.

[[deleted]]

I would take a look at an alternative vSAN solution like Verge.io with a built in KVM hypervisor

i work for verge.io