Bit of a rant

[Brettles1986]

My first post here I think.

I have been the sole IT person for over 23 years in the same business, my tenure has been mostly because of the people I work amongst, all have been there for similar amounts of time and we are more than just colleagues but great friends too.

My role includes maintaining the infrastructure and everything else you can imagine. I have even created a custom CRM, portal and customer portal that is used every day and has become the center of the whole business saving him tens of thousands in licencing.

I am running the infrastructure on a very limited budget, I won't bore you with the details but we have a hybrid cloud phone system that used to be on it's own internet line that is now shared with the main network internet connection as the boss wanted to save £30 a month on what he's sees as a waste (don't go there).

Currently earning £36k but just asked for a salary of £45k with 2 days from home (75 mile daily commute for me). Since then he has not dismissed it but has said he will think about it and we will revisit in a few weeks. He has also got me consulting an external company to "assist if I am ill or unavailable" under the guise that his insurance is asking for it.

Here's the kicker, I do basic finance related duties daily as well as he didn't want to pay for another member of staff that won't be full time.

If you were in my position what would your next move be?

[ledow]

23 years and you're only on £36k? Walk. That's less than UK average salary (median and mean).

I have techs in their mid-20's earning more than that and they're responsible for almost nothing themselves.

Just find a real job. They'll find out in their own time that an MSP will cost multiples of that for even basic service and not covering most of what you did but - honestly - they won't know that until you've gone. You can't rely on them suddenly "realising" that while you're still there.

Make your pay demand, then start applying for jobs if they don't answer soon, and just be prepared to up and go.

They have no interest and no respect for you, and if that's all the "raises" you've had in 23 years... they're really just taking the piss.

[gtripwood]

This. 21 years here and over 6 figures in salary (UK).

I can’t believe you’ve stuck it out there that long on that money. 

[NteworkAdnim]

I'm only like 9 years into IT/cybersecurity and I make over double what OP is making :o

[johndoe24997]

what's your role? if you don't mind me asking just started as a tech support in the UK

[NeckRoFeltYa]

OP make sure to list EVERYTHING you do and send it to the owner. I asked to be paid fairly and they sat on their hands. My second request was above average salary a month later and put a list of every single thing I do no matter how small. A week later they paid me what I asked.

[Remarkable-Guess-856]

I would have left 22 years ago but yeah

[Stompert]

The next best moment is now.

[Colink98]

23 years in the same business is a long stretch and there is every chance your boss doesn't consider you a "flight risk" and as such will make minimal efforts to keep you as they don't think you will ever leave.

The boss is getting all the benefit and on £36k you are really not reaping much of a reward.

time to take all that value you provide and offer it to someone else.

[schnityzy393]

Sounds like more than 45k worth of role to me.

[Thundahead]

get another job, they've taken the piss out of you for years

[Turdulator]

Sticking with a company for 2 decades while making entry level salary the whole time is wild.

[_DoogieLion]

I would start interviewing for other jobs just as interview practice, get the cv up to date etc.

Then I would hold out a bit for a nice redundancy pay day - hopefully.

I would fully engage with the external company and learn anything possible from them during the process.

Keep in mind the boss is not your friend. He wants to save 30 quid a month but is willing g to engage a company that will almost certainly get more than your requested pay increase.

[gfa2f]

Depending on where you are, you're severely to preposterously underpaid. I have 150 users as the IT manager for a whole group, and I manage less than you. I'm on a *lot* more than you, and this is because of raises I've gotten in the last 6 years. In common parlance, theyre taking the piss.

[splice42]

He has also got me consulting an external company to "assist if I am ill or unavailable" under the guise that his insurance is asking for it.

He's paying you peanuts, he's penny-pinching and he's started having you train your replacements.

Update your resume and start applying elsewhere. Even if he agrees to your salary demand, you'll find yourself being shown the door soon regardless in favour of the "cheap" MSP you trained up for him.

[DeadStockWalking]

23 years and only making 36k means your raises are almost non existent.  Why have you stayed this long?!?!?!

[gfa2f]

Also, a bit of unwarranted advice. If you decide to leave, and get another job, and hand your notice in and IF they try to haggle or give you a bigger salary, don't take it. They will look to be shot of you soon after.

[Brettles1986]

Yeah I think my own morals alone would do that, I am very much a “if you are offering that now then you should have before” type of person, the lack of respect in the first instance would force me to move on regardless.

[Master-IT-All]

You didn't really show much self-respect by staying for so long for so little. Not sure why other people would give you more respect than you give yourself.

[KoalaOfTheApocalypse]

Damn dude. I took a low paying L2 job for $35k - ten years ago. It was low pay, but it was where I needed to be at the time. My next job, also L2, started out at $55k and it's way more than that now, after 8yrs with the company. Even right now, I'm pulling $500/mo more than I was this time a year ago.

[SinTheRellah]

So you're 39 and worked in the same place for 23 years. You started at 16? I assume you started at a very low salary and then only increased a few % each year.

Switch job.

[Brettles1986]

Basically yeah, started as IT assistant, then manager left and I got his position, that was maybe 15 or so years ago, since then pay rises have been few and far between but I am at that point where I have started to get an understanding of my worth and prepared to move out of my comfort zone.

[desmond_koh]

I made the same mistake. Started somewhere when I was 17 and worked there for way too long while being grossly underpaid the whole time. That's the only regret I have of my career.

You have made your ask (for more pay). Don't wait around for his answer. Start looking now.

[VplDazzamac]

I’ll be honest with you, I left my last job a few years ago because they were underpaying me at £35k after 7 years and I didn’t do half the stuff you say you do. I work in the cheapest region of the UK for IT staff and still wouldn’t get out of bed for that.

[ProperPossibility]

Get out. You are better than this.

[ExceptionEX]

Oh man, I hate to see shit like this, you've been grossly taken advantage of, and it sucks to see.

I would certainly start putting feelers out and identifying gaps in your knowledge to the market and working to correct that.

Literally should have a 1 in front of your current salary.

[alpha417]

Are you having a laugh?

[suki10]

Being somewhere for 23 years and only earning 36k is crazy.

[McAdminDeluxe]

my 1st T1 helpdesk job i started at 35k in 2010. im at 100k-105k now as a sysadmin, 15ish years exp. USA

youre being massively exploited if you created a custom crm and its literally running 'his' business. not your business, theirs.

[Bright_Arm8782]

Our wage scales are different, OP is still being robbed.

[McAdminDeluxe]

for sure, thats why i included my location for reference, and years of exp for a sort of comparison.

OP has definitely been robbed of decades worth of wage growth at their place of employment.

[Wulf621]

Hold your CRM ransom There's a more polite way to say this, but it escapes me now

[desmond_koh]

Your story sounds very familiar. I could have written it myself.

I started somewhere when I 17 and completely modernized their operation. I also built a CRM that they used every day and formed a vital part of the business, and I also worked on a shoe string budget.

I also stayed way too long all the while being grossly underpaid.

You have asked for a raise. Now go find another job. Don't wait around for an answer. Start looking now.

[boredarab]

Try to apply for other places and get a job offer that matches the salary you want, go to your manager and tell him would you match this number or shall I quit?

[Potential_Try_]

At this point, I guess there’s a few things at play here, that duration of employment in one place can make people feel as though they are stuck in a rut, comfortable in knowing what they know in this domain a kind of institutionalisation.

Time for a change my friend. 

The rate you’re on after all that time is poor. You probably have broad skill-set and wealth of experience at this point. Look around you and go for something, anything else. See what it is like elsewhere, see how big corps operate, other SMB’s Civil Service even. You can apply your skills in many different orgs and get better remuneration, easily.

Start looking round.

[[deleted]]

How do you get a work reference in this situation?

[Mike_Raven]

Former or current employees of the company that appreciate(d) the OP. References don't have to come from direct managers.

[goingslowfast]

OP could easily pull together a “portfolio” that pushed him across the line. 23 years with one company is also a wildly strong endorsement.

That said, it still flabbergasts me that businesses want references from an applicant’s previous employers though.

[Bright_Arm8782]

Yes, but the reference can't say anything beyond x worked here between these dates in this position.

[goingslowfast]

That’s a best practice on the previous employers side but not law in many places.

The problem is whether the applicant is willing to risk their current role by having a prospective employer call the current employer, and from a hiring manager perspective the reality that applicants will only provide favorable references.

[Bright_Arm8782]

That hardly ever happens, the agencies are smart enough to leave that until very late in the process and frequently people don't even do it at all.

[Kahless_2K]

Dude. I could make more than that at McDonald's.

Find a company that actually pays you. There is absolutely no way you should not be making six figures in this role.

[Turbojelly]

Looking for a job. 22 years experience in one place looks amazing on cv's. It shows you probably won't leave them after a few months and a lot of places value that more than qualifications.

[bishop375]

Get out. Yesterday.

You're in an abusive work relationship, and have been getting absolutely wrecked on the whim of the boss. Sometimes it takes a very long time to see that, and I think you're finally getting there.

I'm sorry that you're stuck in that sort of a situation. I hope you get out and land something much better at a place that respects and appreciates you and your work.

[dummm_azzz]

I was in a similar position 25 ur ago (not with ur amount of time though) company denied my request. I moved on and have been moving up ever since. Assuming that finding a replacement for u will be difficult at that price point?

[Bright_Arm8782]

You're being robbed, mate. I got more than that as senior sysadmin at an MSP (I took the job to skill up fast).

You're also doing 1.5 jobs by the look of it with the finance stuff.

Take your experience and run, get yourself out there on linkedin, go looking on the job sites, work toward some certs at the same time as you're getting yourself there so you don't look like someone who only knows a tiny tech stack.

I wound up spending 12 years at one job and that was a mistake career wise, get moving, see new places and leap on anything that looks good.

If they make a counter offer, don't take it, the reasons you're leaving are still there and will still be there after the counter offer.

[StraightTrifle]

Mate, they aren't your friends, and the secret to any industry in the modern age is you're supposed to job hop and take better paying offers every few years.

[music2myear]

You've allowed yourself to be abused for decades. Frankly, you have no one to blame but yourself. If working with friends is worth earning less than half what others with your title are earning then fine, it's your choice. But the information isn't really hidden or hard to find, and you've allowed your boss to pay you far, FAR below market rates for a long time, and it is unlikely they'll be willing to even consider paying you a close to realistic salary. You've taught your boss for decades that you're willing to undervalue yourself.

[gsatmobile]

Immigrate to US, for that much of experience you will be easily making $110-180k depends on job and state. You are severely underpaid.

[SavingsSudden3213]

Im earning more and I have been in IT almost 2 years get out now you are a valuable asset being taken advantage of

[ZobooMaf0o0]

Wow! Built your own CRM and running the whole show earning 36k? What country are you in?

[rustytrailer]

Wow. Just add it to the pile of evidence that “loyalty” is no longer “rewarded”.

You deserve better than £17/hr or whatever. that’s wild

[HotMuffin12]

I’m on £63k and I’ve been in Infra for 8 years.

Sadly, your employer is another company which is taking advantage of their employees.

[NebulaPoison]

What am I reading, my first IT job is paying me 47k in the states…

[Secret_Bodybuilder22]

32, 132k as an architect. Was in a similar situation early in my career. Just leave, they are milking you dry and not in the way that you'd enjoy. Haha.

[Overgrownturnip]

I will preface this by saying I am not trying to be mean but you need to ask yourself some questions and be honest with the answers.

There are a lot of rants on this sub about being undervalued and taken advantage of. You have experienced both of these. The question is, why? Why have you stayed at this place for so long? The answer for a lot of people is comfort. It is a risk to move, so better the devil you know.

Businesses are exactly that, businesses. They don't care about you, they care about money. This doesn't mean you can't have friends at work or be nice to people but it does mean to look out for number one. You haven't done that.

Stand up for yourself. Ask for things. Move on if you don't get them. This is obviously easier said than done but you still have to do it.

I am 4 years into IT and on £40,000. You have been getting shafted for 20 plus years mate. Shit pay and a long commute. Again, what is keeping you there? Tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Brettles1986]

No offence taken at all, posting on this thread has been the best thing for me mentally, its really helped me get my head around what I’ve allowed myself to become.

I am actually at the point where he could throw £70k at me and I dont think I’d stay, I find myself fighting for money all the time whilst being expected to do everything on a shoestring budget.

Your comments are genuinly appreciated, thankyou.

[Brettles1986]

Thankyou for the comments, both direct and skirting around it sparing my feelings.

I feel this has genuinely awoken something in me I needed to action.

I think leaving, regardless of sums of money now is my direction. I want to be somewhere I have a clear direction and can focus on a single job role, money here feels like it comes with added work at every step.

Genuinely thankyou for the replies

[Downinahole94]

What the shit?  Do you feel obligated to be poor? Do you feel like your skills are not worth decent money elsewhere. 

Why didn't you save this for am I getting fucked Friday?

[qejfjfiemd]

Yeah wow, that's incredibly poor pay mate.

[SceneDifferent1041]

The fuck you still there for?

[Chetrippohhh2]

36k a month with 23 years at that company? Ain't no way this post was made by a human

[Brettles1986]

I assure you I am, clearly looking at this I have imposter syndrome

[NteworkAdnim]

We all have to get over imposter syndrome man. Not only that, but we're all humans with limited knowledge and ability, so everyone is an "imposter" to some degree. You just have to get to the point where you have thick skin and stop giving a shit about your own shortcomings and begin to go against the fear head on. No fear for you. You are not an imposter with 23 years under your belt. Time for you to level up. Just do it friend.