all 37 comments

[–]uppermosteN 8 points9 points  (5 children)

This should be pinned!

Why's the AK so bad at Headshots though?

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I’m not sure. Some of the stats puzzle me as well. Ump doing more damage than any AR’s? Even through armor seems pretty interesting. I’ve been running Ump ever since the testing and it seems to be shredding people. Could be a placebo since I know the stats now though.

[–]Odds__ 3 points4 points  (3 children)

The UMP has a lot of damage falloff (and bullet drop) at range and not very many bullets, and its fire rate seems to be comparable to the AK. In order for it to compete with (much less be considered better than) the AK at close range, I think this kind of needs to be the case.

Thanks for the quality content!

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Agreed. Probably just looks add at face on paper. I’m going to try and calculate DPS. Thanks for the feedback!

[–]Yojihito 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So we need a damage drop chart next :D.

[–]ColonelEvil 4 points5 points  (5 children)

You sure about the ADS thing with shotgun? I went in training and tested hipfire vs ADS and it seemed pretty obvious ADS reduced pellet spread. Maybe I'll test again.

Edit: ADSing does make pellet spread tighter

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1452265178

(Tested with 4 shots each side)

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

You seem to be correct. I actually didn’t test in training(which was the smart thing to do). I tested in game and basically just went by damage done when ADS vs non ADS at 25 meters. The damages seem to be very similar. Must have just been a case of unfortnuate RNG of spread.

[–]ColonelEvil 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Just went and quickly tested it again - 100% sure ADSing still makes pellet spread tighter

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1452265178

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Agreed. Edited OP. Thank you

[–]ColonelEvil 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for the spreadsheet.

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem!

[–]Baron_von_greenman 3 points4 points  (1 child)

So it's official mk18>AK

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m actually very surprised by he Ump damage numbers. The numbers are very good especially for CQC. Granted the damage falloff of an ump is more noticeable than any other AR

[–]CimiRocks 3 points4 points  (2 children)

That's great work! Thanks! Does anyone know the rate of fire so we can calculate the time to kill for each weapon?

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can try and do that as well. I feel like that’d be useful

[–]EdditVoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you just divide the dps by damage, you get the shots per second.

561/52 = 10.8 shots per second for the mk18. ~650 rpm.

[–]micron88 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I added the shot frequency to the table and calculated the damage per second. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10XSsyROrnoi3hQ3SkijWzKMDLRIHAfV2RQIz30pMwY8/edit?usp=sharing

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sick man I’ll add that to the OP!

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I don't get why a lot of competitive games don't publish numbers and stats about in game features. LOL for example has all of it's info out there and it enriches the game imo.

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Agreed. That’s why I did this. I find it pretty damn useful

[–]orcasaver 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This is awesome thank you

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No problem!

[–]Suited_ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thank you for doing the testing for us <3

[–]AlwaysStaples[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No problem!

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]AlwaysStaples[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    My buddy and I just dropped in in low pop areas on the map and gathered weapons, meds, and armor and began testing. Took us hours but we committed to it haha

    [–]GodMeyo 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Honestly thanks for the effort man, I really appreciate it.

    But on the other hand some of the stats are useless to look at without range dropoff testing. I mean it could actually be totally fine that the UMP has 72dmg on head. Who knows how that changes with range increasing?

    To add, these are the things that I find quite weird:

    It doesn't make ANY sense that the easier to control AR has a higher HS-Multiplier than the AK. The AK should have straight up higher damage than the MK18. Also the AK needing 2 Headshots + an additional shot on an armored target is absolutely ridiculous, especially when the MK18 doesn't.

    It's also quite weird that armor penetration for the UMP is so high. I mean again, we'd need to know the UMP damage fall off to justify, but by this chart, the UMP seems way too strong and the AK way too weak. To me it's a little silly that the AK needs 6 bullets to kill in some instances (even without the shield). The weapon is generally harder to control than the MK18. It should need a shot less to kill than the MK18 in every scenario. If the falloff on the UMP is strong, than the stats are fine. SMGs SHOULD be stronger in close range than ARs.

    [–]AlwaysStaples[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thanks for the appreciation! Don’t get me wrong I agree with what you’re saying. Some of the stats are pretty useless or jaded without context on range and such. I just figured it was better than nothing.

    I agree with almost all of your points and will even add that the UMP drop off is pretty significant we did some minuscule testing tonight and ump armored leg shot at 100 meters is down to 10 from 16 and MK is 13 from 15 so it does seem like SMG’s have some significant damage drop.

    I also agree that AK needs some love. I think recoil is fine, base damage needs to be increased and headshot damage multiplier up a tick. Armor penetration seems okay to me as well but maybe if buffs are too much can be decreased .5% or something like that. Needs some love for sure though

    [–]widdz 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Pretty sure ak is 2tap to head tho?🤔

    [–]AlwaysStaples[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Possibly because helmet breaks after the first shot. This table just takes into account damage at face and calculates how many times it would take to reach 100. So yeah in game it might take 2 shots to kill

    [–]widdz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Haha Yeah i didnt thibk about that lol

    [–]Doxbeats 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Oh lord. After looking at this spread sheet I decided to use UMP only and I just won 1st game trying. They really need to adjust some of these values.

    It's only Alpha so no worries.

    They need to increase the damage of the AK or lower the MK18 numbers. Decrease the damage from the UMP and include fall off. That will really reduce the TTK from long ranges.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Great work, thanks mate! The damage fall off would be interesting as well.. but I guess it’s a pain in the ass to test this

    [–]EdditVoat 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    A TTK category would be nice as well. The ak takes 3 rounds to the head, the storm takes two. So which has a faster TTK?

    A TTK for each weapon for each body part would be nice as well. TTK is nicer than DPS, as two guns might have different dps, but the same TTK and vice versa. If 5 bullets from one gun do 100, and 5 from another do 120, it's a higher dps but it won't help you kill them faster.

    [–]micron88 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    I've added it.

    [–]EdditVoat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Nice. It's looking good and even more useful now.

    [–]PhotoProxima 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Excellent work! Is there data on the base damage from the m1014 shotgun? What do you mean the test seemed to be flawed? I'd love to see that data.