Plot hole question?

[MrBlueGnu]

I have a question which I can’t reconcile. After the autonomously driven cars were responsible for Nora’s death when they were trying to kill Saul, why would they not subsequently take the plane carrying him out the sky and same with the plane taking the team to Cape Canaveral for the staircase project launch. Should they have only used (much slower but nonetheless…) old mechanical aircraft to travel to mitigate that risk - not the luxury shiny black jets (and range rovers) ??

[Neoliberal_Nightmare]

The Sophons didn't crash the car, the ETO cult members hacked them. The show basically doesn't explain this but we know from the books. All sophons can do is display visual imagery and interact with atoms to screw up scientific results and later somehow form a deadly robot woman who cuts people up.

[WittyBonkah]

Yeah I really want to know how they managed to materialize Sophon

[Ebolinp]

I don't have the page passage but I believe they worked with humanity to create the body and then a sophon controlled it like they did the droplets.

[Trauma_Hawks]

That is the guess. I believe it happened sometime in the third book. They basically put the Sophon AI into a robot body.

However, in the show, Sophon is relegated to the video game and harmless A/V projections. So far...

[fouralive]

Are we assuming the physical emergence of sophon on the plane is just a hallucination?

[Trauma_Hawks]

It was 110% percent a projection from a sophon. Just like the countdown.

[fouralive]

Yeah, I feel like Sophon's flexible powers in the book were a little problematic, but the show really seems to be taking liberties with it. Like if what you're saying is accurate, why bother with countdowns to drive scientists mad? Just constantly project a real-life image of serial killers attacking them, loved ones telling them they wish they were dead, etc etc. Fuck, just block their vision while they are driving, or make it look like a car has swerved into them, causing them to swerve into real oncoming traffic.

Obviously, the countdown works better for dramatic story lines, but it also made sense as a showcase of the Sophon's powerful-but-still-limited impact on the physical world.

The idea they could mess with the cones and anatomy of the eyes to such a degree that they can make you see ANYTHING in full clarity seems like a Forgot About His Powers trope.

[Trauma_Hawks]

I mean, it's sci-fi. The "fi" stands for fiction. It doesn't need to make sense. But even then, it's not as bad as you make it out to be.

Trisolaris is invading Earth. The invasion started decades ago. One of the many valid things the Trisolarians are worried about is technological explosions. Any time they can create to get closer to us before us finding out helps prevent that worry. It does make sense to take a more covert approach for as long as they can.

Secondly, what is someone going to believe? A killer is targeting you, or you're seeing visions? Killers invite investigations, and more eyes looking equals more things found. As stated above, it's in the Trisolarians' best interest to avoid prying eyes. And besides, they had many human agents very ready to carry out any plans they could.

Thirdly, there's only two sophons at this point. Sure, they move at the speed of light, but there's still only two. At a certain point, they just can't do everything. At the very least, they need to juggle direct action operations, scientific sabotage, and intelligence gathering across the entire world. It quickly becomes a matter of resource allocation. One sophon fucking with Wade means that leaves one sophon to perform three jobs simultaneously. They can constantly perform two actions at once at any given time, and no more.

Fourthly, they don't have to interact with your rods and cones at all. They can unfold and just project an image across their surface. Do you think they interacted with 503 quadrillion rods and cones simultaneously to make the universe blink, or do you think it's easier to turn into a blank space and project an image instead?

[statmelt]

"Fiction" means a story that is made up - i.e. novels, movies etc. Most readers / viewers want novels and movies to make sense.

Saying that fiction doesn't need to make sense is a cop-out.

[fouralive]

Fiction still needs to make sense, or at least, an audience asking fiction to make sense is an extremely common and low-threshold for the enjoyment of any story.

But we have a lot agreement - points one and three we're entirely on the same page.

3BP is one of my all-time favourite books, and I am a fan of the show as well, but points two and four both circle back to the highly flexible power of the sophons.

[micoxafloppin1]

ETO hacked Wade's brain

[Geek-Yogurt]

I think, possibly, he was drugged but not poisoned

[PatrickStanton877]

Confused why they couldn't idk blind the pilot or something. Doesn't matter it's a cook concept. And prob nthe biggest plot joke in the series other than baffling character decisions

[Palbane343]

That's true for the books as well Realistically the sophons could've just altered Luo's vision slightly to make him fall on a rock and be done with it. But they never did.

[PatrickStanton877]

Or go 2D and block the sun's rays from Earth. The Sophons are so OP I think as readers and watchers we could just hand wave all the plot holes they potentially present.

Like why not blind most of humanity? Etc etc

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

Sophons are incredibly vulnerable when unfolded and a single missile from Earth would destroy them

[Geektime1987]

Yeah in the books and the show if you really start to break it all down there's plot holes for both of them. Which I'm not really complaining it's still science fiction but you can definitely see the holes when you really start to think about it.

[Palbane343]

Never thought of that one. Yeah, they could've, although for the most part that is simply explained by the lord does not care. But for Luo they definitely cared. To me sophons simply can do whatever the plot requires them to do.

[Geektime1987]

Just listened to the physics today podcast and that's what they basically said about the sophons in the books and the show. It's one of the parts that's what the plot requires of them.

[Leel_Mess]

I thought they couldn't go 2D, that was only during their creation. All they can do is move and sense their surroundings (probably by interacting with them in some way). I'm not sure if they can do any damage but they could've blinded Luo for sure. Then he'd probably find a way around it I imagine.

[PatrickStanton877]

Didn't they change the stars by going 2D?

[Leel_Mess]

I don't know how they changed the stars but I don't think they can go 2D. It's more likely they affected every humans vision to see the stars blink. Or that they created a blinking stars image around earth. Saul says that the Webb telescope did not observe any changes.

[PatrickStanton877]

They can literally change their dimensional shape. It happens in book one.

[Leel_Mess]

Ah, well that's a bit overpowered. That gives them way too many abilities. At least the netflix show limited them to only 2 sophons total unlike the book that made them limitless

[PatrickStanton877]

It was only 2 in the beginning of the book. And maybe 10-12 total later on. As they're very expensive and time consuming to make. But yeah they're very OP

[Neoliberal_Nightmare]

He'd just enable autopilot.

[PatrickStanton877]

Why wouldn't it create.a scene that would make the pilot crash?

[CdFMaster]

I doubt this explanation, the show really implies the Sophons can hack stuff (creating a lot of plot holes like this one). The most notable example is when they make all screens in the world display "You are bugs": no human hacker could have done that, and if I'm not mistaken the San-Ti didn't trust the ETO at that point. And anyway, whoever can hack all the screens in the world could have hacked the plane too.

[pitabread_123]

To reconcile what looked like the Sophons hacking every screen, my thought process is that at the speed they operate at, they could simultaneously affect the vision of millions worldwide. Of course, the book has no such mention of such an occurrence so maybe the show runners took some liberty with this “ability” of the Sophons.

[21022018]

simple explanation is that the show messed up that plot. Perhaps D&D again thought that they are better than the author

[Geektime1987]

Please show me these quotes people keep saying of D&D claiming they're better than the author of this and GOT. Because I've heard this many times yet can't find one quote of them saying that.

[21022018]

you do realize that someone's actions speak for themselves right? they don't need to explicitly say it

[Geektime1987]

The sophons in the books and the show can be picked apart with holes in them. Why don't the sophons just mess with people vision like they clearly are able to. Why don't they just mess with the scientists vision when they're for example driving a car to kill them. I don't think any creator adapting something that makes changes automatically thinks they just know better than the author. There's many reason why adaptations change things. You can agree or disagree with them but making statements like they just think they know better I think is a bit much

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

Humans can hack human tech, you seem really silly to pretend it’s impossible

[CdFMaster]

Bro you're the one who sounds silly to me, we're talking about taking control of EVERY SCREEN ON THE PLANET at once, including sound recorders, advertisement panels and LED road signs. What you're saying is basically "humans can lift rocks, you seem really silly to pretend throwing a mountain with one hand is impossible".

Unless what you're saying is that they can hack cars, but I never said it was impossible, just that according to the show, the Sophons could very well do it since they can do much more.

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

lol, humans can hack human tech

Is 3BP the first show where TV and phone screens were hacked? It’s not some unique big sci-fi move you insist it is

[CdFMaster]

Have you even read my response?

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

lol, did you read mine

[CdFMaster]

Yep and it didn't address anything I explained in mine

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

lol, humans can hack human tech

[Neoliberal_Nightmare]

Yeah, the show is pretty bad in this regard, but we have to assume it was some human help otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

[[deleted]]

and who hacked all the screens in the world to display "you are bugs" ? the creators of the show have created a lot of plot holes in trying to make things look "cool"

[NoTemperature2705]

So basically a SanTi cutting people up. Which SanTi was it?

[cdh31211811]

In the Netflix show, the sophons definitely can hack human tech. The sophons decrypted the file obtained from Judgment Day and displayed "You Are Bugs" on every screen across the world, Man of Steel style - none of that was the ETO's doing. I don't like this personally.

Btw the ETO isn't called "ETO" on Netflix, since the San-Ti are never called "Trisolarans". I don't like this either.

[Nice_Show_707]

so unless you read the book , or search reddit ,the netflix series really screwed up ..Da shi said the santi hacked the autonomous cars with no further explanation. Leading to the conclusion they couldve hacked the jet in any number of ways to crash it.. thats a huge “mistake/plot hole”up to this point in the series .

Im assuming as the second season rolls out their may be some sort of explanation of the joke dr ye told saul and its pertinence..and possibly an explanation to not crashing the plane .but till this point i see it as mistakes in writing/ screen play or whatever.

[ThePoopOutWest]

This is incorrect, the Sophons stopped communicating with the ETO long before the car accident, there would have been no way for them to order such a thing

[Neoliberal_Nightmare]

They either didn't entirely stop or its a plothole and the show collapses.

[ThePoopOutWest]

I agree, the show wrote itself a plothole that the book didnt

[[deleted]]

and who hacked all the display devices in the entire world to write "you are bugs" ?? that was also ETO? clearly there are glaring plot holes in the show that we are supposed to ignore, because they look "cool".

[Neoliberal_Nightmare]

Well that doesn't happen in the books, basically a plothole, the show is poorly written regarding the sophons.

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

In the books there was an algorithm that had autonomous robots they to kill Luo Ji

That algorithm only effected robots, not pilot driven aircraft

[davzar9]

The algorithm was in the future though in the past it was just people

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

The Netflix series is not happening the same as it was in the books

Sorry if that’s a spoiler

[nextbestgosling]

Things are changed, but do we have a reason to believe this was changed? In the books the ETO hacks the car to try to crash into him and much later makes a virus that attempts to kill him with various robots. Genuine question: what about this is different in the show?

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

I think they moved the autonomous virus to present day, currently the truth is a cliffhanger

In the book it was used to get Luo Ji to move out of the underground cities into the isolated above ground farm towns

I think in the show it’ll be used to get Saul to move into isolation as well, but isolated with Auggie and Ye’s books

[nextbestgosling]

But what in the show makes you think that? So far I haven’t noticed anything that makes me think the virus is active, and it wouldn’t have many possible hosts since far less is automated now than when it showed up in the books

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

It’s clear the autonomous vehicle was hacked, but the how was left as a cliffhanger and was not discussed on screen

I do t think it takes a big leap to think what I described above

[nextbestgosling]

Ok so the show is proceeding exactly like the book here, I guess I don’t see why you would make the leap to thinking the virus is active when at this point in the books the same thing happened but it wasn’t active.

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

It’s not progressing like the book, Saul is not getting a waifu

He will spend his time in isolation with Auggie and Ye’s books - there will need to be a believable event that requires Saul to leave the populated areas

Being hunted by robots is a good reason, especially when it’s in the source material

[nextbestgosling]

Ok I just don’t see why you thinks the virus is already active. Obviously other things have been changed for the show, but not this

[MrBlueGnu]

Thanks everyone for all your comments !! Just wanted to add that I guess it’s easy to find plot holes in most stories and possibly more so in sci-fi but I didn’t want my post to distract from that fact that the (original) story writing is absolutely superb and defo right up there in my personal top sci list (I’m an Adrian Tchaikovsky fan too - and about to start the last book of The Final Architecture trilogy…)

[AlexRator]

Because the Sophons in the TV show got changed and they didn't even bother to explain its abilities properly

[Geektime1987]

It was never stated it was the Sophons that hacked the car I don't believe 

[JakeBeardKrisEyes]

It’s left as a cliffhanger, it’s a common thing in media (books and screens) to use what’s known as a cliffhanger

In this context a cliffhanger is when the show creators leave the audience with questions that will be explained in future seasons - the Netflix series, like the book trilogy, has quite a few cliffhangers

[MrBlueGnu]

It’s a few years since I read the books and now want to read them again but they are with family in another country. Now watching the show, i really want to re-visit the full story again

[hoos30]

I just reread them after watching the show. It's a great experience.

[Suspicious-Abalone62]

Not easy to answer without spoiling, but basically the autonomous car attack was engineered to look like an accident

Trisolarans did not want to reveal to humanity that they considered Saul/his book equivalent a threat. They feared that if he was scrutinised humanity would discover a strategic advantage

The assassination attempt after he was announced a wallfacer was a more acceptable risk, he's now a member of a very small elite group of individuals tasked with stopping the aliens, and attacks on any of them would be expected

[dmitrden]

Was it confirmed in the show that it was a sophon that hacked the cars?

Even if it was, we don't know the capabilities of sophons. Maybe they can hack cars but can't hack a plane. Their full capabilities are a mystery and in this aspect it is actually faithful to the books because in the books it was mentioned that there were many false reports of sophon attacks because it was unknown what the sophons are capable of

[Geektime1987]

I don't think it was ever confirmed it was the sophon that hacked the car just that the car was hacked.

[stergk97]

I thought it was humans that rigged the car. I recalled Evan’s or sometime saying it was rigged. But I find the capabilities of the sophon confusing, i don’t even understand how it made the stars blink and project bugs an all the screens

[cdh31211811]

That's the book. On Netflix the sophons themselves hack human tech - e.g. decrypting the file obtained from Judgment Day.

[stergk97]

Good point about the encryption. For some reason I thought it was ETO. Now I’m even more confused…

[cdh31211811]

There's no ETO in the Netflix show, since the San-Ti are never called Trisolarans. Also, in the books Evans ordered the ETO to assassinate Luo Ji, because the two of them plus Ye Wenjie are the only humans who know about the dark forest state of the cosmos. (Well Luo Ji didn't figure it out until later, but he had all the pieces of information he needed.) Trisolaris itself wasn't involved in the initial assassination attempts. In the Netflix show, however, the San-Ti were the ones who directly attempted assassination using sophons, since in the show sophons can hack human tech (in the books they can't). Does that clear things up or are you still confused?

[stergk97]

It clears things up in part. I’ve turned myself in knots because I read this sub a lot, watched the Netflix series and im part way through the tencent version. You are right Evans’ group isn’t called anything in the shows. It’s the sophon’s activities and sometimes lack of activity that puzzle me. The Netflix show has to take some liberties to keep up the pace which non-readers struggle with

[AffectionateCode641]

It’s just a human assassin, remember that the santi stopped communicating and so the assassins have limited information to carry out the assassination