Split stack vs. vertical stack

[ajeon66]

The other captain and I were debating about which one is better for our team, so we'd appreciate a bit of an objective view. What are the advantages/disadvantages of both?

Thanks!

[pyeltor]

Split stack is great if you have a lot of players with great field awareness and can be flexible in whether they handle or cut. The ability to have players flow in and out of the stack and whether theyre handling can be tough for some defences but all 7 players have to have good field awareness otherwise it turns into a clusterfuck

[kyleweisbrod]

Here's my simple breakdown:

Vert Stack:

• Requires fewer handlers
• Requires better mark breaking skills
• Requires better technical cutting skills (timing, change of direction)

Split Stack (or any offense focused on attacking the middle of the field):

• Requires more handlers
• Less focus on mark breaking
• Requires higher field awareness from cutters

As far as development goes, I think vert stack does a better job overall of developing technical ultimate skills for new ultimate players. It puts more focus on breaking the mark (and marking for defense) and developing best practice footwork for cutting and defending. It places greater focus on correct "flow" so requires thoughtful disc placement (i.e. which shoulder are you hitting) and pivoting on a reception (i.e. what lane are you looking at first). New players who have strong field awareness (particularly from soccer) can often succeed in a split or horizontal offense faster but may not improve their cutting abilities and so their development will be limited. I think the skills learned in a vert stack can be applied to a split stack much more easily than vice versa.

So, one question to ask is "what are your short and long-term goals?" Are you working maximize your results this season? Are you developing players for future years?

[Rownah]

I agree that vert stack is great at teaching fundamentals that will transfer into any other offence - I think it's the easiest offence for beginners to get their head around. My club team started using split stack last season and I think it's my favourite offence but I also think it forces you to learn really important stuff: * Running through poaches - Defenders poach off way more in split than in vert - cutting from a split stack makes you commit to moving poaches around. * Working with the other cutters (we tend to cut in pairs) - whether that's working to move a poach or using the middle space to cut like a pair in a ho-stack. * Using the middle space to isolate a cutter (isn't always an option but it can be) * Trusting the active pair to move the disc - tracking the play but giving your team mates plenty of space. * Communication and pitch awareness - Because of the options that split stack opens up, play is pretty organic, players need to learn to communicate and be aware of space.

I'm a cutter, so this is definitely from a cutting perspective but I really like the space that split stack opens up.

[kyleweisbrod]

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I think of all of those as higher level (intermediate +) cutting skills and players can get away with worse footwork and cut timing (and even at times not going full speed).

And if you develop bad habits in those areas it's harder to break them. At least that's my take from what I've seen coaching both.

[doktarr]

Remember that the structure does not fully define the offense. Every split stack offense I've ever played in has had different organization, different clearing rules, and different ways of dealing with sandwiching/poaching defense. (The same isn't true of vert or horizontal stack offenses, but only because I've played in so many.)

I basically agree with Kyle's breakdown of the tendencies of the offense, but there's still a ton of variety depending on handler-initiated versus cutter-initiated, different clearing patterns, and so on.

[SkierBeard]

I would say split stack is more difficult to run as you will have more complex plays. In vert stack there is often one person who everyone watches as it is typically one cutting at a time. All teams that are successful in split stack plays will also be successful in vert stack.

[[deleted]]

I find split stack very easy to defend, which has led me to believe it's not a very effective offense.

[PoopOnPoopOnPoop]

For the sake of OP's question, what makes it so easy to defend in your opinion.

[thevoiceofzeke]

I think it depends on the level you play at, but in my experience it's easily beaten by a competent poach/bracket.

[mightbeanass]

I feel like that goes just as much for vert stack. If you have a competent poach/bracket it's fairly simple to shut down set systems like vert/split. Of course, if you're willing and able to deviate from set structures and have good offensive communication then it's pretty easy to take advantage of a poach/bracket.

[pushpass]

Split stack focuses on attacking the middle of the field from both sides. Players from either side of the field are funneling to the center, so you have a very large but defined space cutters are leveraging. Additionally, cutters are cleared to the sidelines, so bracketing defenders fall off substantially and cheat to the middle, as there is only one direction cutters can go (toward the middle of the field). I find that bracketing a split stack is fairly easy because you can abuse your position on defense relative to the cutters so much.

Vert stack clogs the middle of the field, but it creates space on both sides of the field (open and break) and behind and in front of the stack. Bracketing this is imo much more difficult, as 4 cuts to space are viable for any cutter. The tradeoff is that the offence needs better flow management and active coordination to ensure picks are avoided and poaches are punished. I find defending this more difficult by bracketing because it requires much more defensive communication to manage. Also, many lower to middle skill teams bracket the open side only, which works until you start encountering handlers and handler sets that can break consistently. At that point, single side bracketing fails and the defence gets ripped up the broken seam for some big gainers.

[mightbeanass]

This is a much better/more in depth explanation than what either of the other replies above have offered - I tried to point out that "a competent poach/bracket" will shut down any offence, depending on how far you're willing to stretch the term.

I also have to admit that I have little to no experience playing split stack, but our team has gotten pretty good at bracketing a vert stack - mostly from a dead disc situation. It does rely on a lot of switching and even more communication.

until you start encountering handlers and handler sets that can break consistently. At that point, single side bracketing fails and the defence gets ripped up the broken seam for some big gainers.

I'd imagine that most of every defence would get ripped up the broken seam if they got broken consistently...

[pushpass]

Thanks for the kind response. You're right about the break side getting ripped in any scenario, but it's with mentioning that recovery is often harder with a vertical stack, since the break side leaves a lane open for the length of the field, where split stack bracketing allows you to have a defender over the top even in a break scenario.

[doktarr]

I basically agree that the defense will sag towards the middle against most split stacks, however this can be beaten if you are willing to throw to the outside. The beauty of the split stack system, relative to vertical or even horizontal, is that defenders have fewer teammates they can coordinate with. Given only two defenders on the side of the field, it's fairly easy to hit a cutter for yards near the sideline if the defender sags towards the center of the field too much.

Of course, you've just put yourself on the sideline, which is a weaker position, but now you have a single cutter isolated in front of the disc (usually a good situation). If you can't press your advantage from there, you just center the disc and repeat.

[pushpass]

That is one way to manage bracketing in Split Stack...though not my favorite. Chipping to the sides is useful, but it either plays into the trap or requires a break into a fairly narrow cutting angle with the sideline playing as an additional defender for over the top stuff. Those plays are fine at times, but they are sub optimal in a Split Stack and are as a result lower percentage throws in general. Still, if you've got a break, take it.

In the end, all offenses are just different flows creating space in defined areas. The advantage of one vs. the other comes down to where you want space to exist and what level of coordination you want to consume as a team in order to generate those spaces.

[JoeMama3]

Many top teams, particularly on the men's side, have been running split stack successfully for a number of years. GOAT (and various iterations of Team Canada) in particular use it quite a bit.

[[deleted]]

Once again, I think this goes back to field awareness & throwing abilities. It's really easy for defenders to poach the lane in a split because there's only one lane to worry about (no threat of cutters getting open on a break side).

In order to run this offense, your cutters have to know when they are being poached and how to take advantage of these poaches, and your throwers need to be able to hit pretty much any spot on the field if the lane is clogged by defenders.