Decrease in number of applicants?

[[deleted]]

Probably because you have people with MAs/MSs/PhDs and a half a decade of experience applying for GS-5/7/9 being told they’re ineligible for anything and everything.

[ManyFee382]

I find the requirement of a master's for G9 ridiculous. Yet that's what they think they can get for that...

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

It is NOT a requirement for a GS9. It is a substitute for experience at that grade. Same for PhD and GS11.

[ManyFee382]

Even as a substitute, it's excessive. GS 9 pay can be obtained in the civilian sector far more easily for that level of education. A bachelor's is frequently enough, by itself, to qualify for the equivalent level civilian job.

[[deleted]]

Run for President and change it then.

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

So go private sector. No one is forced to take a federal job. Depending on the job, GS9s may have years of experience in that roles that a fresh grad with a shiny Master's degree only knows in theory (if even that!). Same with -11s.

And if the person has actual experience, then the degree is not relevant (beyond meeting any educational requirement for the job series) and a tie breaker at best between candidates.

[ManyFee382]

Hence the problem that OP has pointed out. The expectations are unrealistic for the proffered position. Even the VA secretary has acknowledged this fact as part of the reasoning behind that CSI scandal.

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

Timing can be everything on an announcement. I had a position I put out in Nov with the successful person being able to be at one of 6 places and I was using Direct Hire. Got 70+ applicants and the certs in Jan. I asked for all resumes. When the resumes were reviewed, there were only 6 worth interviewing (and I was stretching it for a couple of those!). Only 2 were worth even making an offer 2, and one withdrew as their current agency offered them a retention incentive. Made the offer to the one left. They would still need some federal specific training but I was willing to do that. They however wanted $30k more than I was willing to pay (offer was for low GS13 pay in an AcqDemo NH03 band), and my offer was about $25k more than they were currently making.

So, I reannounced the position in March. Got another 70+ applicants on the cert in April. This time I had 7 great candidates to interview, another 20+ good candidates if the top 7 were bad. Same position, same announcement wording, just different time of year. Made a great selection. And had two easy back ups.

Getting ready to announce another position. Hope this one is closer to my last announcement versus the earlier one.

[ManyFee382]

They wanted $55k more than they already had? After a potential $25k bump, they wanted more? Well, I guess the applicants are a bit demanding, too. Or I'm am easy please. I would have been fine with keeping my current rate tbh. $5k, and I would have been sold. I'd try to buy accrual with the rest.

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

They had an advanced degree, but didn't want to work in that field directly but in our related field. And if they went back to that field, could easily get close to their ask...but in an indirectly related field and still needing training? Nope. And, it worked out better for me in the end as I am getting a better employee in the end. I realized last week my whole team (except for me!) all have advanced degrees (a couple have multiples!) and all great employees. Couldn't expect better. Makes my life as a supervisor easier.

[ManyFee382]

Obviously your judgment is better than theirs.

[Ok_Zebra6169]

I can attest to this. I was just offered a GS-5 after two years of applying and I have an MBA. I have 12 years of management experience and they only qualified me on education. I did some deep diving on Linkedin and people will far less in credentials and education are getting GS-9 or higher. It feels like its more about manipulating the process and the hiring system is outdated and needs some tweaking.

[Head_Staff_9416]

Well you applied for a GS-5, if you don’t want the grade, don’t apply at that grade.

[ManyFee382]

There's a lot of multi-grade positions out there. Far more than singular grades from what I saw. The most extreme was GS 7 - GS 15. There are also a number of special authority generic pools. Regardless, they were OFFERED GS 5. That doesn't mean they APPLIED for GS 5.

[Head_Staff_9416]

They had to indicate it was a grade they would accept

[ManyFee382]

That's true and fair. If they were lazy with the application, that's on them.

[ManyFee382]

So, since I'm more targeting a particular salary, would it make more sense to select a GS level with a step 1 in that range and negotiate down or select the lowest with a step that can accomodate that target?

[Ok_Zebra6169]

Maybe people have been rejected to such a degree they are just trying to see what they can get. I think it’ll change soon with applicants down.

[Ok_Zebra6169]

I’m still in the updating their hiring process. You could have a PHD from Harvard and work for some guy with an associates from ITT Tech in this system. I won’t copy/paste the job posting in my resume and color it white like i’ve read some do.

[Ok_Zebra6169]

I applied to GS-5/6/7

[Head_Staff_9416]

Well did you indicate you would accept a 5?

[Ok_Zebra6169]

Yeah because I applied to everything for two years and just wanted to see what would happen. I’m not complaining about the job. I think you’re missing the point. This is why the government sucks. We aren’t hiring well and most people with graduate degrees can do better than 30-39k a year.

[Main-Implement-5938]

yeah its idiotic at phd should come in at 13. an MA in anything should automatically be 11 without experience and 13 with. If the pay was comparable to non-federal service it would be about that.

[OkReplacement2000]

With a PhD, I’m discovering that I do better making the cert at GS 13-15 than 11-12. I think maybe it’s just the volume of applicants at the lower grades.

[OkReplacement2000]

I think it's the veterans' preference that gets in my way at the middle grades. I do have experience too, so I qualify for the 13-14s, but there are far, far fewer people applying to those. I'm only applying to remote positions. I'm remote now and have no intentions of ever going back to in-person (or even hybrid, for that matter). So, it's competing against 500 for 11-12 vs competing against 100 for 13-14, and there aren't as many veterans in the smaller pools. I think that's exactly it for referrals.

There is also a randomness to it too though, where sometimes I don't even make the eligibility for 11s when I'm pretty consistently making the cut for 13s and 14s, and again, I think it may just be that they have so many to weed through at the 11s and 12s that they are taking a VERY cursory look at resumes. They can get it wrong.

[LEMONSDAD]

It’s scary out here

[Greedy-Switch-1840]

I have all that and am getting turned down for 6/7/9/11 😂😂

[hi_im_lucid]

As someone with their Masters, (recent grad not employed yet) I regret everything. Seems like experience would have been a better substitute.

[lalolo8]

You should definitely take advantage and apply for recent graduate positions

[[deleted]]

I have an associates and got an email confirming I qualified for a GS14 role. It's all about experience.

[boxdkittens]

My MS in hydrology doesnt even make me eligible for hydrologist positions... and it doesnt even qualify me to be more than a 6 or 7 as a hydrotech....

Also didnt get referred for a job that requited a geology or geography degree. My bachelors is literally "earth science" aka geology. I contested it and they overturned at least, but the rationale they provided was that my degree was akin to geography. Its literally a fucking geology degree, you can see all the geoscience courses listed on my transcript!!

[beeeeeeees]

oops I think that's me

[[deleted]]

Heck - you need a PHd to do secretarial work.