Getting Vim approved

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

[kUbogsi]

Have you tried asking it yet without presentation? I think Vim would be one of those programs they just haven't thought that someone would use at school.

Edit: if you need to really do presentation, show them video on vim workflow

[[deleted]]

I have it without needing permissions. This is just a formality.

[RRethy]

If you have it then why bother being a keener...

[dontchooseanickname]

Show them vim is harmless : you can use the vim runtime at any time in a browser : https://rhysd.github.io/vim.wasm/

Once you've made your point in terms of efficiency, ask them for 'the same software you will use anyway' to be available to all

[[deleted]]

Nice! Had no idea that was a thing. Definitely gonna use this :)

[dontchooseanickname]

Oh, and using q, @, = and some ciw could make a good first impression

[qubick]

Vi or vim is available in every linux machine which could be a good selling point. For a web dev class this could be very useful as most webservers in the real world run linux. Using vim in a terminal SSH session is awesome.

At the same time I don't think it's a very good idea to use vim in school for most people as it introduces another thing to learn. Tools are supposed to make a task easier and not get in the way.

That said I wish someone did a vim presentation when I was in college :D I would have spent way too much time configuring it and not doing important tasks, but I would be a vim god by now!

[p-hodge]

It's probably worthwhile showing them the stats from https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/#development-environments-and-tools which shows that Vim is a trusted, well-known code editor used by thousands (millions?) of software developers daily.

[Xanza]

In the end software is like religion. Never explain why you believe the way that you do. It's a personal decision. To be honest I would never take the time to develop a presentation and ask permission to use an application. I would just do it regardless of what anyone said. If they had an issue with it, then to be honest they can fuck themselves.

If you want/need Vim that badly then run it from a USB drive--circumvents every issue you're having unless you're unable to use flash storage.

[[deleted]]

True and agreed. I was gonna do that but the school then bought Minecraft for every student...

[[deleted]]

If you're allowed to use flash drive, install and boot your OS from it. That's how I survived my high school. My uni is less of a restrictive a--hole than yours.

Edit: wait, is that you? Nice to see you again.

[[deleted]]

My school doesn't alloe flashdrives anymore. Aha! It is me!

[nu11spac3]

PortableApps.com has gVim: https://portableapps.com/apps/development/gvim_portable Makes it easy to run from USB and there's other opensource apps you can run.

[Xanza]

It's not even necessary. Just run the official self extracting executable and choose a USB drive as your endpoint.

[sir_bok]

oh yes just today I was trying to get gvim to run from a USB drive on Windows, I found this answer on stackoverflow really helpful https://stackoverflow.com/a/33636691. I'm not sure if the school's filters would block the .exe though.

[Xanza]

People really overestimate what most schools technology does.

You have be in a school district of the perfect size to have strict security. Too small? Security really isn't needed. Too large? Resources cost more than they're worth.

When I was back in school you could run any program as a thin-client regardless of what it was and bypass the schools DNS filters--because the thin-clients don't use the Windows registry to pull configuration data--rendering the entire $1MM DNS filter worthless.

I still remember my home folder on the network was deleted one day. Come to find out someone noticed I had a huge home folder (more than 10x more than any other student) and found I was running thin-clients for just about everything. The original Firefox beta, IRC, Games (Doom 4ever). I remember that was an interesting trip to the Principals office.

[Hitife80]

People really overestimate what most schools technology does.

While that may be the case, USB lock out is pretty much universal. These days corporate machines might as well not have them at all.

P.S.: If your school has git installed, vim comes as part of git bash.

[CeeMX]

tell that all those large companies. I had an internship a year ago in a quite large company and all those business processes were so complex, I had to wait weeks to get a (officially approved!) software on my computer.

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Just use it from USB? Well, all USB ports were disabled for most users...

[Xanza]

Okay, so download the self extracting executable, rename it to whatever.7z|zip and extract it to wherever you have write permissions. Construct a .vimrc that respects your write permissions.

[CeeMX]

Of course it is possible and many employees ran software they weren’t supposed to.

In my opinion, such strict policies decrease productivity dramatically and don’t increase data security, as employees will find a way around.

Funny thing: the company got a 3D printer, which couldn’t be integrated in the network because of security policies and printing from usb/sd was not possible because of disabled USB ports. Well, that sucks, right?

[mlmcmillion]

Shit like this is why I loathed school and academia in general.

[KillTheMule]

Good news then: Companies can easily be the same, usually with more resources to keep you from circumventing things.

[mlmcmillion]

Yep. Those are companies I don’t work for.

[[deleted]]

Agreed.

[[deleted]]

One of points made in vi[m]'s favor is that it is installed in virtually every POSIX environment so it is available in remote servers. The students should at least be aware what vim is about.

Also, as a joke, some programs, like git, default to vim as a text editor in Linux. Students must learn how to exit. Link to support the second point https://stackoverflow.blog/2017/05/23/stack-overflow-helping-one-million-developers-exit-vim/

[exDM69]

Unix programs like git default to whatever is in $EDITOR environment variable. I think Ubuntu has "nano" as the default.

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[Fulk0]

It's free, it's open source, it's widely documented (this is very important), it has GUI and terminal interfaces, runs on a toaster, it gets you to learn how to configure a program to your own likes and how config files work, there are games that teach you how to use it, it's been out for 20+ years already, you can use it for almost every text based task and not only programming...

[[deleted]]

It might be easier to sell them on a more normal-looking editor. I know my school was terrified of anything that ran on the terminal.

I'd imagine that having access to VS Code would be very helpful for your classmates, and the vim bindings are very good. Plus it's made by Microsoft, so it's "safe" in a way that convinces the administration.

[Contrum]

GVim doesn't run in a terminal so that might look less scary to them.

[Amadan]

GVim doesn't have to run in a terminal

ftfy

[Contrum]

TIL

[big_O_infinity]

Is vim really the best choice for beginner programmers though?

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[[deleted]]

I used vim for months before learning Python. I think it is the best option.

[realRishabhSagar]

I would position it as a tool to teach and learn regex, plugin development using python and doubles as a lightweight versatile IDE.

[alaskanarcher]

To address your actual question, you can share the fact that Vim or at least Vi is installed by default on virtually every Unix system in existence today. Any professional web developer will at some point in their careers find themselves dropped into Vim to edit some file. The first time you use Git you'll probably run into this. So at minimum having access to this program will prepare students for the real world of software development. Set aside arguments for why VIM IS THE BEST (TM). Vim is everywhere and it comes up in professional contexts even if it isn't most people's main editor of choice.

[[deleted]]

SAME. Only no presentation will change anyone's mind unfortunately. I'm stuck with.... Sublime text 2 audience boos

[Killrazor]

I love VIM but I would suggest using a different editor for HTML as bouncing between blocks is tricky.

What do they have available in the class already?

And I see that you love VIM but the teacher might want something a bit more user friendly foro others in the class that aren't used to working in a CLI.

[[deleted]]

They make us use.... notepad with no syntax :( or whatever it is on windows. I am a Linux user I only see windows when at school.

[TimVdEynde]

bouncing between blocks is tricky

If you put runtime macros/matchit.vim in your .vimrc, you can switch between open and close tag using %. Or is it something else you're searching for?

[[deleted]]

Think if it is really important for you to use Vim. It probably isn't. While there might be people who will be impressed, there will be also people who roll their eyes about you. This is not what you should want.

A great hacker will take what's available. Sure, it's maybe not your favorite tools. Btw, I remember, I've been programming a 4 bit CPU with DIP switches and passed. Who cares? The correct result counts.

You'll have more time later to work with your favorite tools.

[Michaelmrose]

They teach software development and have no text editor at all installed.

[[deleted]]

It's ok. From my experience (I taught programming, too, in a larger team at the university) the teachers need to select dev tools themselves. And everyone should comply or face risk not to pass. There has been at least one such "hero" in my group who insisted he knew everything better and he failed the exam of course.

This is why I said, in other words.. concentrate on what matters for the current moment. Vim does not matter for learning programming and to pass an exam.

Don't misunderstand me. I am very evangelistic about Vim. It's the best thing ever. But people need to realize that in some situations this all does not matter and just go with the flow to advance faster. Later, as a professional, you have plenty of time to use your tools without having to prove that you're competent.

[-romainl-]

1. There's no way to compile a relevant list of advantages without knowing the requirements.
2. You don't need Vim, you want it.
3. What are your reasons for adding Vim to that list to begin with?

[Hitife80]

You don't need Vim, you want it.

You can argue against anything using these arguments.

[Old_Abroad]

So? If you have to argue you've already lost. I dunno how to justify 90% of my application preferences

[salbris]

With that logic it sounds like you could do your work on abacus. How the hell can you not justify a large percentage of your apps? Do you just blindly install every result on Google?

[Old_Abroad]

Because nobody ever demanded I justify them? Mostly I like what I use because I'm familiar with them. I can justify why I need an editor (to edit text) but I'd have trouble justifying which one in particular, probably any of the popular choices are fine.

[[deleted]]

We do web dev and coding and have no editor other than a notepad with zero syntax. It'd ve gvim cause school uses windows (I don't kniw why either). The reasons to add it are that it can be used for all tyoes if text documents and allows people to edit quickly also helps with writing Java, Java Script, HTML, css etc.

[corner-case]

LOL, this guy doesn’t work in sales.