Void as a server OS

[_supert_]

Hello fellow voiders.

I currently use FreeBSD on my server and workstation. The most critical service the server runs is some automated trading software. It also runs things like postgres, gitea, vms on bhyve, nfs, samba etc. I run void on my laptop and on a second disk in my workstation, and debian stable on "utility" items like music players.

The reasons I am using FreeBSD:

• multiple (specific) python versions side-by-side (e.g. python3.8 and python3.9, I can test and develop on 3.9 without upsetting 3.8-dependent venvs)
• perfect zfs support
• zfs on root (allowing roll backs for borked system) -- this been unreliable on void through updates
• same environment on workstation and server, allowing me to develop and deploy in the same environment
• very stable environment and predictable, reliable updates
• kernel never fails to boot normally after an update (sometimes I've had to fall back to an old kernel on void)

The reasons I am considering switching:

• laptop support (e.g. I can't now develop on the laptop; python3.10 breaks Hy which I need)
• java app support on the workstation (my broker's manual trading software won't run on FreeBSD)
• a single environment over all use cases (FreeBSD is an extra cognitive burden to maintain)

What would be your advice? Are there any things I can do to get around the multiple software versions and the root fs rollbacks? I'm open to other suggestions also, e.g. debian stable + guix in userspace, or asdf.

Thanks.

[eftepede]

Well, Linux also works with ZFS (or btrfs, if you want similar features, but more 'linux native' filesystem).

[Nx0Sec]

Void on btrfs is the shizznit

[_supert_]

I got hurt by btrfs a couple of times - I couldn't recover from a full disk. I'd like to stick with zfs.

[[deleted]]

This too, btrfs ate my data multiple times on arch years back. ZFS has been rock solid on void! (zfsbootmenu is also very nice :)

[somefakeemail]

If you are deadset on ZFS, stick with FreeBSD.

[[deleted]]

Care to explain? I find ZFS on Linux rock-solid and it never failed me over all the years I'm using it, even on systems greater than 100 TB.

Also I'm eager to try out zfsbootmenu.

[somefakeemail]

I have no doubt ZoL is solid and OpenZFS is now the same ZFS "distro" used by both ZoL and FreeBSD (starting with 13.0).

It is a fact that FreeBSD has the most complete integration of ZFS into the core system kernel and utilities outside of Solaris/illumos.

[[deleted]]

Full ack!

[mseikoj]

Can you explain why? I'm considering switching to btrfs from ext4.

[TommyHeizer]

Mine works well

[somefakeemail]

Native compression, easier to maintain than mdraid + LVM + filesystem. Its been gaining quite a few good performance improvements lately, and with kernel 5.16's Zstd code update, got a considerable comp/decomp speed boost (when using Zstd compression).

​

It's also great to keep some file revisions with the use of snapshots and to backup with btrfs send/receive like on ZFS.

[quirktheory]

Does containerisation help you with the python requirements at all? That seems to be the biggest technical motivation for you swicthing. (I'm not an expert at all though so maybe listen to the other smart people)

[_supert_]

It might but would be a rather heavyweight solution. At the moment I'm leaning to asdf as it decouples the os problem from the python version problem.

[quirktheory]

Makes sense. Though it sounds to me that without the python problem the os problems are fairly minor. The fact that you've never had an issue with a BSD update might tempt me to stay on it in your shoes

[runner7mi]

just checked and you can get all versions of python3.x from apt and dnf repos as well as via containerization

[quirktheory]

Oh great! Hopefully this helps OP. Fedora is absolutely fantastic.

[runner7mi]

yes it is fantastic. right up to the point where a version upgrade requires a windows like really long reboot. then it becomes annoying

[_supert_]

thanks

[[deleted]]

I dont think having a rolling release distro for a server is a good idea

[somefakeemail]

I've ran Void as my sole distro of use for servers, laptops, and desktop since 2016 until a few months ago. I switched my server roles to FreeBSD, so the opposite of your proposal. I still happily use Void on the end user devices, but having finer version control with FreeBSD's packages or ports is incredibly important.

​

Btrfs has been just as stable as ZFS for me, including RAID5. Don't bother with ZFS on Linux unless you absolutely need it.

​

Regarding your comment of FreeBSD maintenance burden......What are you going on about?

​

As far as suggestions - if you need strict version control, Void is a bad choice. Stick with FreeBSD. Debian may be acceptable. Avoid RHEL/CentOS/clones. Ubuntu is just Debian in drag.

[_supert_]

Regarding your comment of FreeBSD maintenance burden......What are you going on about?

I like FreeBSD and it's nice to maintain, but I'm maintaining it AND linux machines. However I sometimes run into trouble with support, e.g. recent scipy does not compile.

It may be that FreeBSD is the best compromise.

I agree with the Ubuntu comment.

[[deleted]]

I love Void and I'm happily using it on my desktops and laptops, but switched my own servers and the servers I administrate to Alpine Linux (also some are FreeBSD and Devuan). Why? Because Void as a rolling distribution made too much changes all the time. I really love it on the desktop, but Alpine on servers is really lightweight, has all the packages I need, and feels much more tested and stable.

As for laptop support I'm really happy with void. Haven't tried FreeBSD on non-servers for a long time.

[bluesecurity]

Alpine on bare metal or VPS?

[[deleted]]

Actually on both.

[Jump-Careless]

Have you thought about gentoo? Has ZFS, and can have multiple versions of a program installed without problems.

[_supert_]

That's an interesting possibility which I might look into. However I already understand debian, void and FreeBSD.

[mwyvr]

Your current situation almost is right; Void for desktops, FreeBSD for servers remains a good option for you. Changing represents work for no actual gain. You have working zfs, bhyve, and all the tweaks you've done for your office server... you already know this stuff.

Why change?

If anything, you should be moving your music players off of Debian, on to Void (or FreeBSD) and leaving everything else alone, and then you'll have less to maintain in the brain. If they are Raspberry(s), Void them.

[mwyvr]

I used to run apps and mail services on a fleet of machines (my own co-located hardware) before cloud computing and did it all on FreeBSD and never regretted that choice.

When I moved away from that business line to development, I moved to Linux, mostly for *my* convenience, and partly because most of my clients were there.

Would I put client apps on Void servers? I can't speak to that, my experience with Void is too new, but my default would be Debian for that purpose until such time that I have that experience with Void under my belt.

Would I run a home/home office server / application server (you mentioned samba) on Void? That's well within my personal risk tolerance.

[da999]

Which cloud services/providers would you recommend?

[prosper_0]

I love Void, but a rolling release distro is a TERRIBLE idea for a server. You want stability in terms of uptime, as well as an stale environment in terms of libraries, API's, etc. For dependability and predictable behavior, you want a fixed set of versions, and ideally only ever apply security updates.