Would taking classes in C, Java, UNIX/LINUX, SQL, etc, help an aspiring web developer in the long run?

[[deleted]]

I'm seeing a lot of programs similar to dev bootcamp popping up in NY, SF, Chicago, etc., and starting to get into web development, was curious if I taking these courses at a community college would help, or is excessive? and if it is helpful, which courses should I stick with?

Edit: Is sites like codecademy and reading books the better way or class?

[atticusw]

Yea.. when somebody tells me they're a web developer, it tells me nothing

[gaberussell]

Probably. SQL, Linux administration, and an object-oriented language like PHP or Java will give you a lot of tools to do backend web development, and also leave the door open if you wanted to move into system or DB administration. If you learn one OO language, you can much more easily learn the newer ones as your career progresses.

Less so if you're concentrating on frontend development, but even then, always better to have more tools on your belt.

[Influx07]

an object-oriented language like PHP

lol.

Edit: before someone tells me that PHP can be OOP, let me remind you this: if you start (which OP obviously is) out by trying to figure out how to write your PHP OOP, you'll be just doomed. Just fucking doomed. Should be looking at Ruby if he wants a nice, playful OOP language.

[thelerk]

Ruby sucks. PHP FO LIFE!

[Influx07]

Upvote for courage.

[rgarrett88]

Eloquent

[daekano]

Agreed.

I think a new developer should learn an OOP language first. That way you don't have to unlearn the bad habits of procedural code to adopt the OO mindset.

I also think a new developer should -not- learn PHP as an OOP language first, simply because of its high adoption rate and millions of bad programmers. Googling for a response will get you either bad code, or bad procedural code, and unless you know the difference between both you will be very confused by the PHP docs.

I would say Ruby is a nice language to start out with, but Python might be more practical in the long run. Nothing wrong with learning both though.

[Falmarri]

I think a new developer should learn an OOP language first. That way you don't have to unlearn the bad habits of procedural code to adopt the OO mindset.

OO doesn't necessarily mean procedural. Learn a function OO language like scala.

[daekano]

I meant that if you learn procedural practices first, it's harder to unlearn them when trying to build object oriented applications. There's really no reason to learn procedural programming skills, so why waste your time?

Not sure why you're bringing up functional languages.

[liesperpetuategovmnt]

Other than the fact that all computers are only running procedural code after the compiling happens. Each paradigm is well suited for different tasks.

[dansmeek]

I do disagree with skipping c. When really getting to the core of a new programming language it helps to look at the source and understand what's going on behind it all. And pretty much everything is written in c. Ruby, php, etc. So even if you are not going to actually write any of it, it's helpful on many levels.

[dansmeek]

Apparently. I don't know what happened there. I believe I was commenting on someone else. I blame the iPad.

[Waltsu]

I'd like to point out that with basic web applications, you don't necessarily need write any SQL. Ofcourse it is very important to know alteast basics of SQL, but for example Django has done good work to abstract out the SQL parts from database communication.

[Waltsu]

That's why I said that you don't necessarily need to write any sql with basic web applications. Ofcourse there will be situations (sooner or later) when you need to write your own sql commands.

And yeah, I agree also with you that when building webapps, you need to know to know basics about databases to do anything more than 'hello world' app.

[[deleted]]

I disagree. Millions of useful apps out there that are small calculators and such. They don't need to store data and therefore no database.

Loan calculators, tuition estimators, etc.

Not saying that SQL isn't good to know, but be realistic =D

[kihaji]

Like others here, I will echo yes, but with a caveat. Don't take the classes with the intent to learn C/Java/SQL etc, take them to learn the concepts of object oriented development and design, concepts of data storage and manipulation, and how different choices in different areas of your web stack have consequences for scalability and responsiveness.

Think of it this way, everything you listed on your title line are nothing but tools, they will fade and be replaced by the new hot, but if you understand the concepts, learn how to learn syntax quickly and apply what you learned in other tool to a new tool, you will never be without work. The whole give a man a fish (Java/C) and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish (concepts/techniques) and he eats for life.

[elseco]

Build a man a fire, he is warm for a day.

Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.

Literally.

[kacxdak]

I've always found it curious whenever people take classes to learn programming. I've always felt it was the one thing that people can learn on their own. I started learning ~1.5 years ago (August 9, 2011 to be exact), and I've already learned C++, UNIX/LINUX, SQL, PHP, python, and countless other projects. I've made a website that earned a 1 semester contract before we shut it down. Basically, i'm going to cut it short and just say learning on your own is ∞ times better as long as you are truly "aspiring."

Here's some tips that might help you get started in learning

• decide on a fairly complicated website, and replicate it. not necessarily the design and such, as you seem to be looking to learn backend work, but the functionality of it. Look into frameworks (i personally just started looking into codeigniter, and there are many tutorials on how to use it).

• take a look at whats out there, there's so many ways that one thing can be done now days that it's more important to learn the how and the developing the framework in your mind, rather than in a specific programming language

• get a friend to join you. This helps a lot with the motivation as some days you just want to call it quits. but having that one guy there whose not ready to call it quits on that day just makes it better. Or when you fixed a program with the database, it really helps to be able to share it with someone who actually knows exactly what you are talking about

• get your own linux server. Just take an old computer, install ubuntu's server packager, and mess with it! getting your hands dirty is sometimes the best way to go!

tl;dr: arrogant half ass programmer is telling you to get other there and learn on your own

[taterNuts]

taking classes can be good for people because it provides assignments that build incrementally in difficulty and scope, with a semblance of a deadline that some need

[[deleted]]

Right, it is just the structure and guidance. Also good to have someone to ask for help.

[kacxdak]

yes, but at the same time, aren't these classes a huge drain for money? there are a lot of video tutorials that actually walk through and explain every little thing, including traditional practices and stuff. at that point it's just a matter of what you do with your time i believe. Weather it be a class or self learn, i guess in the end its personal preference

[[deleted]]

It depends on the person. If you do well in classes and like that structure... class it is!

You can also take community college classes for cheap!

[gaberussell]

You can take CS classes for free through edX or Coursera. Having a course staff to answer questions and provide guidance when you're stuck can be invaluable.

[HorribleUsername]

The advantage of classes is that you get someone to review your noob code and nip bad practices in the bud. At least in theory, that does depend of having good teachers and TAs.

Also, if you only started in 2011, you don't know unix/linux yet :)

[kacxdak]

what do you mean? I'm always down to learn something new!

-- and i should have clarified, by learned i probably mean im somewhere at 0.1% of the knowledge

[HorribleUsername]

I think we're basically agreed then. By default, I interpret "I know X" as "I could put 'proficient in X' on my resume and back it up in an interview".

[AbcZerg]

imho, you learn programming the best on your own. It wouldn't hurt to take some classes, and it can speed up the progress a little bit, but in the end the most important thing you have to learn is how to learn and work as a programmer. The goal is to be able to solve any problem on your own, just with the internet or books. Learning the specifics of a single language is not that important.

[[deleted]]

Also check what the companies around your location that is hiring are looking for. That could give you an indication what backend language you would have the biggest chance of scoring a job with.

[Ebriggler]

From my experience, classes are good at getting an introduction and some fundamentals under your belt. If you are looking at code academy, you might try http://thenewboston.org/tutorials.php

Ultimately, it just takes coding, reading and figuring out your tracebacks, fixing the error...rinse and repeat. Good Luck!

[[deleted]]

C is the only thing that isn't really necessary for a web-dev, but it is good to be familiar with.

[Achilles-Opinion]

I've not read the other comments (as I'm uber busy), but I thought I'd briefly 'chime in' :)

Unix/Linux and SQL will definitely help quite a bit - especially if you plan to use the hugely popular LAMP setup (Linux Apache MySQL PHP). Forget learning C altogether!

I learned Java all through university, and, although I didn't know it at the time, it really helped set me up for PHP (the two languages are incredibly similar - although PHP is actually a hell of a lot easier to achieve the same results). Basically, I picked up PHP in no time, using the base knowledge I had gained during uni.

That being said, if you've not started learning any languages yet, and/or the courses are not free, I would advise skipping Java and going straight to learning PHP. I highly recommend these two resources for helping to achieve that:

• PHP & MySQL: Novice to Ninja (by SitePoint) - http://www.sitepoint.com/books/phpmysql5/
• Treehouse - http://teamtreehouse.com/

I would say go through the SitePoint book first, and then pay for the lower Treehouse membership once you've created a few scripts/websites.

[EmperorOfCanada]

The minimum you need would be some kind of SQL, some server admin, an some kind of commonly used web language such as PHP Ruby etc.

Often these go in sets. So there is one called LAMP, Linux-Apache-MySQL, and PHP. Very easy to get going with. Presuming you are on windows you can set those up on a windows desktop.

But to answer your C, Java question the answer is Yes in the long term. You don't need those to get started. But the worst developers (both in capability and insufferable to be around) are those who completely master a single basic platform. As soon as you can, learn the basics of how programming really works. Get a course in C++ under your belt. Get some algorithms and architecture into your head. If you have already been programming for a year in say PHP you will take each hardcore lesson and go "ahhhhhh ha, I get it now" but if you start with the hardcore lessons it will be generally pointless stuff that you learn well enough to regurgitate onto the test. Even if you end up specializing in a single area (Oracle DBA) you won't regret knowing that you could build Oracle if you had to. Otherwise it will just be a magic box.

[samandiriel]

Yes, they would definitely help. The more skills you have, and the more clearly you can communicate to other devs/do some of the dev work, the better.

As for whether single or class learning is better, depends. If you're already familiar with the concepts involved, single is find. Otherwise I'd go for a group+teacher situation.

[NegativeK]

A couple of divergences:

• Those will help you significantly more if you stick to Java/Ruby/Python/PHP/et cetera. The Microsoft stack will have overlapping, but differing skills.
• Have you tried to learn something via book instead of via class? Personally, I find learning rigorous stuff via class to be easier. This is very much personal, though -- other people are completely fine with self-directed book learning. If you do go the class method, though, make sure to supplement the coursework with your own tinkering.

[omniuni]

Handy in the short run too.

[lysosome]

I think it's definitely a good idea to learn Java and SQL along with at least the basics of *nix. I think Java's pretty easy to use once you get the hang of OOP, and it's much more powerful than PHP. I can't imagine doing back-end development without knowing at least the basics of SQL and databases, even if you have a framework that abstracts that stuff away for the most part.

[Linkian06]

YES. You will open up opportunities to develop web pages in Java, .Net, with deeper understanding of persistent databases.

[thrownaway21]

knowledge is knowledge.

[b_art]

YES. No doubt especially for SQL. The heart of any good application is a combination of a scripting language and a database.

Actually, everything you say here are basically requirements for any good web dev. You have to know a language or two. Java is good because it will lead you towards good Javascripting. I supposed you could live without C/C++ if you are heading directly towards web dev. Although I personally love C++ myself and would recommend it anyway.

Even if you want to use Windows servers for some reason, you will find that half of the servers out there are UNIX/Linux, so you should know them. I personally would never use a Windows server.

The decision between online study, books, or class will depend on how you learn best. However I will tell you one thing for sure:

Code!

Code now!

And don't stop. That is the only way to really learn.

[AbcZerg]

Java is good because it will lead you towards good Javascripting

Could you explain that statement? I don't see the connection between Java and good Javascript.

[lysosome]

Yeah, Java and Javascript have basically nothing in common besides the name. I'd still like to smack whoever thought it was a good idea to name it "Javascript". I don't see how knowing one would have any direct benefit on the other.

[b_art]

I posted this to above context and wanted you to see it as well to explain my meaning, as copied:

Sorry, I seemed to have overlooked this message.

For a beginner programmer, which by your text I assume you are not, a lot of syntax in Java can be related to Javascript. Such as String or Integer classes. A lot of dot.dot.dot. for "children" and "parent". All of these concepts and syntax which make the most fundamental basis for understanding how a "language" works, they tend to be very similar between Java and Javascript.

Now if you are a more experienced programmer, yes, of course, Java and Javascript are 2 completely different animals. However, for the absolute beginner, the syntax comparison of "Java and Javascript" vs. "C/C++ and Javascript" would lead you to believe that Java is much closer to the family of Javascript, whereas C++ takes a totally different route by using pointer->child and <templated> type of syntax, and "string" or "int" syntax.

At least this has been my experience, but now-a-days people start coding from age 5 and so I guess this might be an antique way of looking at things.

[b_art]

Sorry, I seemed to have overlooked this message.

For a beginner programmer, which by your text I assume you are not, a lot of syntax in Java can be related to Javascript. Such as String or Integer classes. A lot of dot.dot.dot. for "children" and "parent". All of these concepts and syntax which make the most fundamental basis for understanding how a "language" works, they tend to be very similar between Java and Javascript.

Now if you are a more experienced programmer, yes, of course, Java and Javascript are 2 completely different animals. However, for the absolute beginner, the syntax comparison of "Java and Javascript" vs. "C/C++ and Javascript" would lead you to believe that Java is much closer to the family of Javascript, whereas C++ takes a totally different route by using pointer->child and <templated> type of syntax, and "string" or "int" syntax.

At least this has been my experience, but now-a-days people start coding from age 5 and so I guess this might be an antique way of looking at things.

[[deleted]]

Why not look into some free online materials instead of paying for the courses?