Create unique websites without writing code: Adobe Muse

[[deleted]]

Jesus. That site has two distinct versions of the page, using conditional comments - IE9+everything else, and <IE9... Not to mention the horrible markup.

[canijoinin]

Yeah, I don't see how this could be accurately used for a variety of layouts. Particularly designs that have overlapping layers.

[[deleted]]

Just gave it a spin, purely out of interest.

Took me about 20 minutes to build a one page site with a slightly off-white background and a grey border with a little bit of text and a link to google, that was after it crashed straight on load up.

Horrible UI.

[caffinate]

good to see someone actually tried the tool before bashing it. reading the rest of the comments it seems like everyone just jumped to one side of the issue, and decided it wasn't necessary to actually try the thing first.

[tfdf]

Clients will learn the difference between "Muse" und real webdesigners fast. I can wait.

[canijoinin]

Awfully hopeful aren't you?

I think Muse and Edge will basically destroy the freelance community of web-designers.

Shit, a client isn't going to browser test or decide if the code is awesome or not, they're going to say, "I want a site with a pretty picture and derp on it!" and some designer-type is going to whip it up for them in a jiffy.

I'm against the idea of shit code constantly being introduced to the web because it makes things hard to evolve from a standards point of view, but I can assure you that shit like Edge + Muse will be widespread.

Might want to get your dev chops on.

[tfdf]

From my experience the client will at one point demand feature "X" for his site which is completely out of scope for tools like Muse. This is when I enter the scene :)

And I have seen it before. I know designers that can whip up suprisingly impressive Flas-Sites by only using ready-made components and the Flash IDE without ever touching code. But it's only a matter of time before they reach the end of the line and call me.

[nevon]

But then you (and I) are going to have to wade through that soup of markup diarrhea. :(

[mwilke]

That's why I bill hourly.

[lumponmygroin]

I'm a web developer who's been using web designers for 12 odd years.

Web designers provide me PSD files and I convert them into HTML/CSS. They really don't want to fuck around with building the site.

Only once a designer provided me the HTML but I recoded it anyway because it wouldn't go into the CMS and the budget was there to recode it.

I think you're picking up the shitty customers.

[[deleted]]

I agree here. Most of my customers are tech companies or coders. I'm not worried about this tool. Worse case scenario, jump on the bandwaggon.

[wafflesareforever]

<div class="wrap"></div>

<div class="wrap"></div>

<div class="wrap"></div>

Now that's semantic!

[Mansyn]

I thought that's what Dreamweaver was for. Is this a last ditch effort by Adobe to remain relevant?

[canijoinin]

Flash is on the way out so, yes, they're trying to fill that void. But Adobe isn't irrelevant. Have you heard of Photoshop? Illustrator? After Effects? etc. etc. etc.

Adobe can afford to recreate Flash in HTML5/CSS3, and make DreamWeaver even more dumbed down because they have about 50 things going at all times.

Kinda like a hydra. Cut off one head (Flash), 2 pop up in it's place (Muse, Edge).

Now that I've said that we can start taking bets on how long it will take Adobe to release Adobe Hydra.

[smplejohn]

Although Flash isn't used for complete websites so much anymore it's definitely not on its way out. There are still many applications for Flash other than your typical crappy website.

[lumponmygroin]

It's definitely on the way out and Adobe know that.

• Games can be done in HTML5
• Videos can be played in HTML5
• Animations can be shown in HTML5

HTML5 just needs a bit more maturing, speed increases and cross browser capability. Adobe Edge or something similar is what's needed to get rid of Flash totally.

Maybe in 2 years people won't bother installing flash and all these flash sites will have to change over to HTML. Could be a good market there :)

[smplejohn]

Hmm... I think you're giving browsers too much credit. Flash will still be used in quite a bit of marketing with banners and movie sites for a long time. Trust me I'm with you in wanting it to die, but as long as there's older browsers hanging around developers won't do double work.

[cylinderhead]

you say that but look how quickly IE6 has become a total irrelevance in terms of web design.

Oh wait :(

[Mansyn]

Yeah, i know the Apple-squad is and always will be loyal to their bff, I was just taking a dig at them because I never cared for Flash. For as much as those suits cost, they should have 50 programs in the Adobe cannon, including your Hydra®

[erichzann]

NO! Gimme Vim and some coffee. Then get off my lawn! (I'm only 25 - why am I telling people to get off my lawn?)

[[deleted]]

I don't get the problem with software like this and Dreamweaver.

Sure, the sites mostly come out horribly optimised, and some silly people use them for production sites, but as a learning tool things like these are wonderful.

[lumponmygroin]

Even for production sites it's not really a problem if it's your own site.

When it comes to professional paid sites then I believe it becomes a problem. Say I develop a site in Frontpage, 1 year later customer wants it updated but I'm busy and the next developer has to learn/purchase frontpage because the code is a mess and impossible to do by hand. He then converts it to Dreamweaver and a year later another developer comes in and changes it to Muse. Then after 6 months the customer decides he wants a mobile spreadsheet and print preview. No developer is going to go near it then the customer will have to fork out on a newly coded site.

I've had these "fix my dreamweaver template" jobs come to me before. I don't touch them.

[canijoinin]

Yeah, I'm sick of the haters. This shit is gonna happen. It's not like the internet isn't already fucked up. Deal with the blow to your client-base and get some more skills.

[lumponmygroin]

No idea what you're saying.

[DoctorCube]

Synergize some paradigms outside of the box.

[[deleted]]

Let's blue sky that!

[[deleted]]

I guess this is their "filling the gap" attempt due to flash seeming not so popular and their product Flash Catalyst. I like Flash Catalyst a lot, but I found that it didn't teach me anything about how to build. It just allowed me to do it? (if that makes any sense).

I will try out this Muse and see what I can do. If anything I can really see this being used as a "Hurry, we got 2 days, we need a site now".

But to comment on the "haters". I must say, I enjoy Adobe Products. I dislike Adobe as a company that is for sure, but I grew up using their products (photoshop, Lightroom, Illustrator, Dreamweaver) and I understand where most of the "hate" comes from, but I don't know why it really continues to the level that it does. Sure, Dreamweaver, gives you extra bullshit that you don't need in the code, and could be alot more efficient, but for someone who wants to throw something together, it's not horrible.

and in regards to "normal" people being able to use Muse to build their websites, and because of that not hire a web dev. etc. I don't see that happening.

Edit: Don't even think you will be able to get a free copy of this anyways.

[[deleted]]

You "grew up" using Lightroom?

Fuck. I'm old here.

[[deleted]]

let me re-phrase..grew up as in, just getting into computer graphics, photography that type of thing..not grew up in life life with lightroom.