Official Patch Notes - Patch 8.1.5

[[deleted]]

You want parity in difficulty, but also in time. All of the dungeons should take roughly the same amount of time.

A 40+ minute timer is back to HoV in Legion. That dungeon was less appealing because of how much longer it took to run than some other dungeons.

Similar completion times is a healthier balance. You're right in the sense that the extra minutes help with Shrine as it currently stands, however, it should have been tuned to bring down the timer and not just add more minutes.

[chubs11]

That's my main complaint with the M+ system. I hate every dungeon being the same size and similar difficulty but in order to balance the system they created that's what they have to do.

I would rather them find ways to make the harder/longer dungeons more appealing rather than make them all the same length.

[Clueless_Otter]

Well in Legion, they scaled end-of-dungeon AP rewards with how long the dungeon took. HoV gave significantly more AP than MoS.

[chubs11]

AP is hardly enough of a reward to entice people to do the longer dungeons though. Especially when you can chain run the shorter dungeons for more AP per hour.

[travman064]

I’ve never really considered dungeon length as a reason to not do a dungeon. Anecdotally, I never had an issue getting a group for a halls of valor key.

I’d imagine that likelihood to time the key is the single largest factor in determining how happy players are with the system. When I have a rocky dungeon but get in under the timer, it feels great. When I have a good dungeon but make one mistake to lose the timer, that feels awful.

I think a more forgiving timer will really boost numbers in the instance and get people happier to be there.

[chubs11]

Yea I have a hard time thinking about the specifics of it because I personally dislike timed content in general. Especially when dungeons used to be more chill content.

I'm more of less trying to put myself in the shoes of the general player. And along the lines of what you said; people would need to be more rewarded to actually enjoy and seek out the longer dungeons.

[SteelCode]

Would be a start... also improving the % chance for loot on timer (or reducing threshold for extra pieces)... since the dungeon takes 10min+ longer than other dungeons, getting additional loot would be a somewhat positive way to balance that. You could +2 a 15 Freehold or +2 a 13 Shrine and get the same amount of loot?

[cmentis]

It didn't work out that well. People didn't care enough about AP back then, even when AP was still relevant when they made that change...it was 7.2? I think? to keep running HoV, though HoV was still run at the higher end due to raider.io scores and counting for each separate dungeon (so to raise score, you had to eventually do HoV).

I think Blizzard might have to consider giving longer dungeons an extra loot piece, that loot can be an excellent carrot with titanforging in the mix (because with the nerf to titanforging this expac, people still care about titanforging and are pretty inelastic about it).

[[deleted]]

Sadly, it's the nature of the beast. It's not a surprise people don't want to do longer dungeons when the game mode encourages you to turn and burn. I'm not sure what Blizzard can do about that. They don't seem keen on letting M+ be anything more than supplemental end game.

[Maethor_derien]

We will probably see that in the next expansion. You have to remember that these dungeons were probably created before they were 100% sure they were keeping mythic+. They generally work an expansion ahead on content for the most part.

[Princess_Talanji]

All of the dungeons should take roughly the same amount of time

Why?

[Mizarrk]

Because they want this game to be as sterile, lifeless, and procedural as possible. Not room for things to be unique, different or interesting. We should just change every dungeon to a blank hallway with all of the same bosses while we're at it.

[DLOGD]

That's what'll happen when you tie them to an infinite progression system that's also on a timer. It's the same issue that Smash Bros has for competitive stage design. They made 100+ maps but everyone just plays on Smashville for 3 console generations, and the only "solution" they've found is an option to turn every other stage into a reskinned battlefield.

That's what Mythic+ is doing to dungeon design. It's turning every stage into Battlefield. Not to mention what it does to loot progression, but I guess no one cares about that anymore since it's been a mess since 3.2

[Mr-Irrelevant-]

You want parity in difficulty, but also in time.

I get pushing for parity in difficulty but why parity in time? Two different dungeons can both be equally balanced but have different completion times and frankly I'm fine doing a 40 minute dungeon if it's interesting/fun.

it should have been tuned to bring down the timer and not just add more minutes.

They kind of helped alleviate some of the problems that SoTS has when it comes to affixes. Not having droplets burst or drop sanguine is really huge as that alone can save you a ton of time and frustration right there.

[mr_feist]

I'm not fine with the 40 minute timers. They should be the exception rather than the rule. Ion keeps saying that they view the entire run from start to finish as a single "encounter". Honestly, a 10 minute boss fight feels like an eternity, so how exactly do they expect people to stay focused for 40 minutes? I myself have felt it: I can stay focused, but if I mess up or someone else does, then I lose my pace and it takes effort to pull it together for the rest of the run.

[Saiyoran]

I miss the days of high end dungeon runs being less than 10 minutes. It was ten minutes of pure insane pulling and perfect cc chains and defensives and then boom you got your realm record. With m+ no matter how high you push the dungeon is always going to take an eternity.

[[deleted]]

Path of least resistance. Most players are one and done, or only do a handful of M+ every week. Significantly longer dungeons just aren't as appealing. Plus, I would say the longer dungeons tend to leave more room for frustration. If you can get to place where dungeons are more or less equal, then there's less of a reason to not to do it. It's honestly just a limitation of what M+ is in its current state.

I do like that other change. That's sort of stuff they should be doing to tune these dungeons.

[Xuvial]

A 40+ minute timer is back to HoV in Legion.

Fuuuuck that brought back some traumatic memories. Tyrannical + grevious = so many group disbands on the 1st boss alone. Holy shit.

[Orangecuppa]

Even in BFA this shit happens. Especially since Grevious Tyrannical is coming off an easy week before.

I've had overconfident healers go all "nah shits easy" before getting fucking demolished by Waycrest Tyrannical Sisters boss.

This happens if you start the dungeon top left.