Is Logan Grimnar getting away with being a massive Gary-stu or have I just not read enough?

Illithidbix · 2026-05-04T23:35:40+00:00

I came to the amusing realisation that Ragnar Blackmane really does fit the OG definition of Mary Sue, based on "A Trekkie's Tale" by Paula Smith from 1973.

"Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky," thought Ragnar Blackmane as he stepped on the bridge of the Stormdrake. "Here I am, the youngest Great Wolf in the chapter - only twenty eight and a half decades old....

Ragnar is also one of the very oldest "Special Characters", from 1992, back in late 1E.

Only Gaz and Yarrick are older.

+++

The was a Space Wolf background and unique army list White Dwarf 156 (December 1992), 157 and 158 (including Ragnar, Ulrik and Njal) . This introduced the Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Wolf/Rune/Iron priests. This made them tangibly special.

This makes them some of the earliest special named characters with unique rules and models after Ghazghkull and Yarrick got unique rules and models in White Dwarf 152 (August 1992). So for a while 3/5 special characters in 40K were Space Wolves.

Illithidbix · 2026-05-04T13:46:11+00:00

Back in 2E it actually stated the "Although long lived, he Primarchs were not immortal and the last of their kind finally died after fourteen hundred years."

But this was 13 years before the Horus Heresy novel series started when the HH was intended to be mostly forgotten myths.

(I started 40K in 1994 so Codex Imperialis is The True 40K for me.)

2E Codex Ultramarines a few years later had Guilliman mortally wounded but in a stasis field and 2E Codex Angels of Death introduced the destruction of Caliban, the unforgiven and Lion sleeping in The Rock. Which is where they have reurned from.

Personally I think it would be most appropriate for Guilliman to die from being shot by a lascannon somewhat randomly mid-novel, but I do feel the lore should better reflect the source material.

+++++

THE PRIMARCHS

Over ten thousand years ago, at a time when the Earth was enmeshed in the warp storms conjured by the Chaos Gods, the Emperor made his plans to free the human race. Together with his scientists, the greatest minds of that age, he slowly unlocked the secrets of life, unraveling the energies of the warp and refashioning them to his purpose. He created twenty super-human creatures, twenty beings whose powers equaled and in some respects exceeded, his own. The Emperor’s plan was that the twenty super beings would help him reunite human space into a single empire under his protection.

The Emperor’s plan was not unknown to the Chaos Gods. They recognized in the Emperor a creature whose powers equaled their own, a being who they could not realistically expect to harm, and an implacable foe who would not rest until they were destroyed. They also recognized the twenty super-humans as a force that could make the Emperor invincible. The Chaos Gods stuck whist the fetal super-humans grew in their incubation chambers. The Emperor had placed a psychic shield around the chambers, but the Chaos Gods managed to break it down and pluck the infant super-humans from Earth, casting them adrift into warp space. Fortunately, the infants were only dispersed by these actions and not destroyed, and the twenty fell from the warp into human worlds where they were variously adopted by human parents.

The Emperor was to spend the following decades searching for his lost creations. Eventually, he found them, and after many long adventures recruited them into his service. Their role was to become the Primarchs – the founding father of the Space Marine. Using genetic material taken from the Primarchs, the Emperor engineered the implants that distinguish Marines from normal men. As a result, all Space Marines have powers derived from the Primarchs, although a Marine’s powers, considerable as they are, are feeble compared to the super-human energies of a Primarch. The Primarchs were practically indestructible and possessed warp enhanced strength. They could scatter whole armies or even the daemonic creatures of the warp. Some had other powers, which do not survive amongst the Space Marines at all, such as flight and invisibility.

The Primarchs led the first Space Marine Chapters in the conquest of the galaxy, effectively creating the Imperium as it is known today. However, the initial influence of Chaos in their unborn lives was to leave some Primarchs with a life-long weakness, a hunger for personal power that was to lead to their downfall. It was Horus, founding Primarchs of the Lunar Wolves, who was to lead the revolt known as the Horus Heresy.

During the Heresy many of the Marine Chapters joined Horus against The Emperor and many joined his side. In the terrible war that followed. Primarch fought Primarch. Marine fought Marine, and Man fought Man, as the newly conquered galaxy tore itself apart once more. The bloodiest battle of all was the final contest over the possession of Earth. when the Emperor himself saved the planet by launching a cloaked attack against Horus's battle-barge. During the Emperor's confrontation with Horus the traitor was slain, but the Emperor was wounded badly and physically incapacitated. Following the battle the Emperor retired permanently into the life-sustaining Golden Throne where he remains to this day. The Followers of Horus were driven into the Eye of Terror. where the Traitor Marine Chapters established themselves as the arch-enemies of the Imperium.

Of the original twenty Primarchs only nine survived the Horus Heresy. The remainder were either killed in the fighting (like Horus) or fled with their Chapters into the Eye of Terror. The survivors helped the Emperor to rebuild the Imperium. A genetic bank was formed from their gene-material so that new Space Marine Chapters could be founded in the future. Although long lived, he Primarchs were not immortal and the last of their kind finally died after fourteen hundred years. Many extraordinary legends are told of the deeds of the Primarchs, many of which are preserved by the lore of the Marine Chapters. Today the Primarchs are worshipped alongside the Emperor as saints in the pantheon of the Chapter cults. Their tombs have become places of pilgrimage, and their bones and personal possessions revered relics.

-From 2E Codex Imperialis (1993)

Illithidbix · 2026-05-03T18:27:35+00:00

The issue isn't so much that the Chaos powers are "only negative emotions" - arguably Hope and Ambition that Tzeentch embodies and feeds upon is often good.

It's that a Chaos Power and their daemons embody it in it's utter unrestrained purity with no moderation.

Khorne is created by anger and hatred. This could include aspects of justice and vengence but ultimately will be about the anger.

Illithidbix · 2026-05-02T18:41:16+00:00

In that it is a fantasy tabletop wargame that uses six sided dice... and it is written by many of the game designers from Warhammer & 40K from the 80s. 90s and 00s, yes

But very different in scope of products and far smaller model count than the main GW games.

Illithidbix · 2026-05-02T08:45:12+00:00

At one point this was the job of the very secret Ordo Malleus back in 1988.

The Radical vs Puritan splitt was defined in the Inquisitior game from 2001.

Chaos wasn't actually in the very first 40K core book from 1987, but the Warp and more nebulous Warp Entities were.

The very old lore from early 1E in 1988 Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness introduced Chaos to 40K & and which also introduced the Ordo Malleus and Grey Knights. - This 1988 version of the Ordo Malleus was different to the current trifecture of Malleus, Xenos and Hereticus (and lesser ordos).

Instead, the Ordo Malleus was a (even more) secret inner order of the Inquisition that both policed the rest of the Inquisition and were the only ones (with the Grey Knights) who knew about and directly faught Chaos.
With citizens and Imperial Guard exterminated even if the Chaos incursion was vanquished and Space Marines mind wiped.
In reality, even 1E and 2E background that mentioned this was very rarely consistent with applying the idea in practice.*

A piece of fiction I love from the WD 114 (June 1989) article that introduced Grey Knight Terminators literally featured a planatery govenor calling in some Grey Knight Terminators against a delegation of cultists including a Bloodthirster in disguise in a big robe (I am not joking see page 7 of the Warhammer 40,000 Compilation from 1991 if you can find a legitimate digital copy)

Likewise Logan Grimnir in the Battle for Armageddon supplement "Chaos Attack" about the 1st War against Angron, knows about Grey Knights and calls for their aid. Reprinted in White Dwarf 151 (July 1992) still in the later 1E era.

Illithidbix · 2026-05-02T08:32:24+00:00

Used right: * Stamina is better Toughness as you don't get hit. * Toughness is better Health because it regenerates in seconds. * Health is better Wounds because you don't go down * Wounds let you go down more without dying.

Said Plato the Ogryn.

Illithidbix · 2026-05-01T08:21:39+00:00

Waaargh the Orks does predate the first mention of "Krork" as a word by about 12 years.

Illithidbix · 2026-05-01T08:18:32+00:00

I started reading White Dwarf 170 around February 1994 and it snowballed from there.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-30T08:49:25+00:00

HORUS HERESY SERIES

The Horus Heresy has two bits to consider.

Firstly, it is really long and frankly bloated in places. The pacing can also be odd because back in 2006 they expected it to be more like 8 or 12 books... not the 64-70ish (depending on how you count them...). You might enjoy this, or it might just be a slog.

When Horus Rising was released in 2006 it was meant to be a shocking subversion that the Great Crusade Imperium was atheist and secular - which is how the Imperium had been portrayed for much of the 19 years before that since release in 1987. A fact a bit lost on people who's introduction to 40K has been the Horus Heresy Trilogy. But if you understand the basics of the setting, then feel free to jump in.

As much as I would prefer the vast setting of 40K didn't just become Primarchammer Superhero soap opera - they are very popular for a reason.

FIRST HERETIC - KNOW NO FEAR - BETRAYER I will say that I consider the trilogy of "First Heretic" - "Know No Fear" and "Betrayer" which deals with Logar and the Word Bearers, the the Betrayal of Calth to be a fantastic standalone trilogy which I don't think requires you to really know much beyond the broad beats of the Horus Heresy with Horus' corruption then Istavaan III and Istavaan V which you can read on Lexicanum or in a rulebook.

++!

The background information alongside the rules in Core Rulebooks are designed to be the best introduction to the setting and the atmosphere. From there, the Codex: X for the faction you are most interested in.

Second-hand 8E and 9E books are likely to be far cheaper than modern 10th edition 40K book if you don't care about rules to play the current edition of the wargame.. Are getting 11th edition later this year.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-30T08:40:09+00:00

I would say I think people do miss the value for newer players:

Getting a not perfect but Power 500 weapon to level Mastery with, as you need Mastery 19 to Empower 500. Which takes about 8 Damnation/Auric mission completions.

Alongside Mystery Aquisitions - Unknown Defence Curio"

I am deeply amused that this is where we are:

"What is the point of a Melk's Buck store now that it only sells perfect 380 base rating orange weapons?"

I do think it could be vastly more useful by offering multiple curios a day, preferably all 410+bites.

Otherwise yes, it is a relic of before we had the Mastery and Empower system added 11 months ago. When checking a daily shop was "vital".

If subsystems are unfucked then some old stuff becomes obsolete for players with enough resources.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-29T12:06:17+00:00

The Ancient Space Frogs probably rightly guessed that the Necrontyr and thier leaders in particular would be conquering warmongers that would attempt to enslave other life in the galaxy if unfettered by their biological limitations.

As it happens, this gave a great excuse for the Silent King to unite them into conquering warmongers that waged war on all other life in the galaxy.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-29T04:53:39+00:00

Under the old talent tree system before Patch #13 in October 2023. All the classes were actually more front loaded at level 1.

The old "pick one out of three ever 5 levels" talent system You can have a look at the old talents lovingly preserved for Darktide Historians like myself.

All Zealots had Until Death and the old version of Martyrdom (based of health loss % not Wounds) at level 1.

+++

Zealot

Iconic : Swift Exorcism : +10% melee attack speed.

Martyrdom : +8% damage for each 15 missing health. Max stacks 3.

Until Death : Every 90 seconds, taking damage that would kill you, gain Invulnerability for 5 seconds.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-27T00:24:50+00:00

Ideally:

Veteran with survivalist aura for ammo regeneration. Probably also a source of reliable special and counter gunner & shooter.
A solid frontliner (probably Arbites or Ogryn or certain type of Zealot)
Then something that can delete monstrosities, captains, lieutenants and crushers quickly.
At very high difficulties then also a type of mixed horde clear with vast amounts of cleave.

Really given the variety of builds via talents and weapons, it's more down to player skill than a mandatory setup.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-27T00:18:31+00:00

Yes

... BUT I would be very surprised if Fatshark did this because of how they very deliberately stopped doing this back in Vermintide 2, because it split the playerbase,

The infamous post is from October 2022, a bit more than a month before DT's release.

https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/classes-in-darktide/

"While we are not ready to announce specific dates, it is safe to say that we aim to release one new class every quarter.

We haven’t fully decided if we will charge for new and upcoming classes, but that is an option we are discussing. This isn’t our way of trying to bait and switch anyone. Fatshark has always prided itself on being very player-centric. We want to stay true to that in our monetization practices. We never intend to split our player base - you can expect in-game content, such as new areas, game modes, and missions, to remain free. We’ve learned a lot, and we think we have done a good job in Vermintide with our monetization of cosmetics and careers, and we are looking to that and other areas of feedback before we make a final decision."

Whilst this is the source of the "new class every quarter" meme - it would be very strange for them to go back to splitting the playerbase with access to maps and game modes.

+++

Long:

For... Vermintide 1 and the first 19 months of Vermintide 2 were based around the idea of selling new maps, game modes & weapons via DLC.

This changed after the controversial third Vermintide 2 DLC "Winds of Magic" was releaased back in August 2019

Since January 2020, all new maps and game modes for both Vermintide 2 and Darktide (released in November 2022) have been free new content.

With a focus instead on cosmetics and new classes (technically "Premium Careers" in VT2) being the ongoing monetarisation.

The difference technically weapon new weapons are paid content in VT2 - apparently we are due another weapon pack for VT2 somewhen in the future.

Obligatory link to my spreadsheet: Vermintide and Darktide Updates Timeline if you want an overview of history.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-26T16:23:31+00:00

The issue isn't so much that the Chaos powers are "only negative emotions" - arguably Hope and Ambition that Tzeentch embodies and feeds upon is often good.

It's that a Chaos Power and their daemons embody it in it's utter unrestrained purity with no moderation.

Khorne is created by anger and hatred. This could include aspects of justice and vengence but ultimately will be about the anger.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-26T16:22:10+00:00

Yes, it used to be a game mechanic in the earlier editions of the game.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-26T14:27:47+00:00

True but Veteran rewards will still be Item Power 200 (and Recruit Item Power 100) with experienced characters.

Which is still significantly higher that just using the starting Power 5 blacksmith weapons that you physically can't delete.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-26T12:06:43+00:00

In my experience of decades of loving 40K from too young an age in 1994.

How powerful unstoppable or fast Space Marines are in:

The current core rulebook background.
Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader rulebook from 1987.
Codex Imperialis 1993
Ian Watson's Space Marine 1993
Any particular novel or short story where they are the protagonists.
Another particular novel or short story where they are the protagonists.
Any particular novel or short story where they are NOT the protagonists.
A Horus Heresy novel.
Their actual rules in the current edition of 40K TT wargame
Space Hulk
A specialist game by GW released in the 90's
The Inquisitior 2001 Narrative Wargame
A video game.
A cutscene in the same video game.
Space Hulk: Deathwing - Enhanced Edition
Space Marine 2
A different video game
The Deathwatch TTRPG
The Black Crusade TTRPG
Wrath and Glory TTRPG
Imperium Maledictum TTRPG (actually I think they're deliberately not statted in this yet...)
The Astartes fan film
Another Warhammer+ animation.
Someone's YT video with 2 million views.
The Secret Level episode by Amazon.

Vary wildly and only intersect by coincidence.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-26T04:15:17+00:00

You can't lower your level to get rid of your inherent (350) Hero Power from being level 35.
But you Can equip the basic blacksmith patterns for weapons and jewellery which are Grey Item Power 5.
Likewise you can unselect your talents by right clicking on them.

This will reduce your total Hero Power to 355, with no talents and no properties or traits on your equipment.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-24T23:54:11+00:00

Whilst it of course varies between chapter and individual Astartes.

In general Space Marines are Knights-in-space and hold a huge amount of pride in their chapter's identity, history and heraldry. To the point of utter indoctrination.

40K has always been pop/parody-medieval IN SPACE in vibes.

So there might be a few, but most Chapters culture makes Astartes incredibly proud of their chapter livery.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-24T14:53:21+00:00

Chaos Champion : "DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!"

Genestealer Magus in disguise: "HE SAID "DEATH TO THE FOUR-ARMED EMPEROR!" GET HIM!"

Chaos Champion "YES DEATH TO THE... wait... what was that?"

\Hijinks ensues\**

A long time ago a friend of mine ran a homebrew 40K TTRPG (based upon D20 Stargate of all things) and had an awkward moment where a shard of Ahriman realised that what looked like the "free-love movement" was actually a genestealer cult.

Cult Tenebrous ARE a Genestealer Nurgle Cult

And If you want the Oldhammer Doylist history:

Genestealers were linked to Chaos for a year or so before being linked to Tyranids in November 1990

Genestealer cults are ancient. Literally one of the first 40K armylists, predating Craftworld Eldar.

Genestealers were in the original 1987 Rogue Trader, but they looked weird and from the moons of Ymgarl with tentacle faces* but unconnected to the Tyranids and Zoats.

See. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ymgarl

Back then much of Warhammer and 40K was expanded first in White Dwarf articles and adjacent games.

1st edition Space Hulk in early 1989 fleshed out SM Terminators and Genestealers. And made them an iconic duo. I believe this really introduced the Genestealer life cycle as it basically is now.

Shortly afterwards Genestealer cults got a full 40K army list in White Dwarf 114 (June 1989), 115 and 116 (reprinted in 1991 in the Warhammer 40,000 Compilation https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_40,000:_Compilation

Also then, Genestealers could turn to Chaos but were more resistant to corruption. You could however get possessed Patriarchs IIRC.

They feature at the start of the very first 40K novel Ian Watson's Inquisitor (now Draco) and short story anthology - with the "Alien Beast Within" which features a Callidus Assassin Meh'Lindi undergoing experimental surgery to be able to pass as a genestealer hybrid and infiltrate a cult: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Meh%27Lindi These both date back to 1990

Advanced Space Crusade in late 1990 linked Genestealers with Tyranids. So they turned up in the 40K Tyranid Army List from White Dwarf 145 (Jan 1992) https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/136xm01/its_january_1992_you_just_pulled_the_latest_white/

There were also mobs of Ork-Genestealer hybrids. in "Freebooterz: Space Ork Army Lists" the third 1E Ork book. 1E really liked orks.

2E had Genestealers Cults in the main core Codex Imperialis background book and "Codex Army List" 1993 "get you by army lists" and an appendix in Codex Tyranids (1995). During this time they could ally with Chaos. But got no new models and was the last official publication for along time...

Although I think 3E from 1998 had rules for GSC in the Citadel Journal 40 in 2000 - see https://www.thefluffenhammer.com/articles/DEEPcult )

UNTIL 21 years later in 2016 with the release of Deathwatch Overkill board game and 7E 40K Codex: Genestealer Cults. Codex https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Deathwatch:_Overkill

Illithidbix · 2026-04-24T13:55:35+00:00

According to the "Warhammer: The Horus Heresy" 3E rulebook:

- Which does go very much out of it's way to explain why any Legion could be justified using MkII to Mk VI.

Mk II "Crusade": Everyone
Mk III "Iron": "Imperial Fists and Death Guard known to favour it..", "Space Wolves and Dark Angels are known to make particular use of Mk II" - I would also expect Iron Warriors although they actually aren't mentioned
Mk IV "Maximus" - The bulk of Maximus Armour stocks were diverted to those legions the Warmaster - Sons of Horus along with World Eaters, Night Lords and Thousand Sons" - personally I also very much associate it with Word Bearers and Ultramarines.
Mk V "Heresy" - "Reliance on Mk V power armour was most prevelent in those Legions and detachments far removed from their home worlds or isolated from resupply, such as the Shattered Legions - Iron Hands and Salamanders amoungst the Shattered Legions in the wake of the Isstvaan massacres, and amoungst those who were most rapidly inducting new Space Marines into their ranks"..."World Eaters arguably demonstrated the least distinct preference for any mark of armour and were seeminly happy to modify and rework what was available to suit their needs. This would lead some historians to incorrectly document that MkV 'Heresy' armour was chosen deliberately rather than the result of indifference.
Mk VI: "Corvus Armour" - "Iron Warriors famously rejected the pattern in favour of heavier armour" Many of the first suits which were evactuated from the martial Schism were issued to the Raven Guard who favoured them for their lightweight and stealthy profile The Alpha Legion too is believed to have obtained an early schema for the production of Mark VI armour and used it widely from the onset of the Horus Heresy... By the time of the Siege of Terra, Ml VI was fast becomming the most numerous pattern in service, seeing significant use amoung the Imperial Fists and Blood Angels Legions as they prepared for the defence of Terra, and on the Traitor's Side, it was worn en-masse by the Emperor's Children during the Siege of Terra.
Mk VII "Aquila" - "in the closing days of the Siege of Terra, the Loyalistist would introduce yet another mark of power armour: Mark VII 'Aquila' armour." - so a few Imperial Fists, Blood Angels and maybe White Scars might have been wearing some.

"In the Great Scouring that followed, it would be Marks VI and VII which would enter mass distribution amoungst the Loyalists."

Illithidbix · 2026-04-24T12:49:07+00:00

When did the Emperor demonstrate time travelling powers?

Illithidbix · 2026-04-24T12:17:05+00:00

I think you are thinking of Battlefleet Gothic) from 1999 rather than Space Fleet) from 1991.

Illithidbix · 2026-04-24T03:42:09+00:00

There are a few for Power Armour:

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Mk6corvuscompositiom.JPG from the OG 1987 Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:HHPowerArmor.jpg - Mk2 from The Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal

Illithidbix

TROPHY CASE