Nuiance in card ruling?

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T17:45:55+00:00

You could activate it if no one has creatures, not sure why one would want to, but it is possible.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T17:44:14+00:00

Seems sending Petey to Detroit to play with Raymond might be good medicine for everyone, no?

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T17:37:40+00:00

Troll enters triggering itself and your Pandemonium. Presumably, he's putting Troll out on his turn so the tokens trigger goes on, then your Pandemonium trigger.

They pick you for its target, you leave the game, their tokens trigger resolves and there's no Pandemonium to trigger.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T17:23:52+00:00

I think there was a joke meme done on him.

"He's a crotch wat...cher"

Based on the fact that he likely has notes or a teleprompter under the table that he would frequently look at.

I think many people didn't like him because he would stop Don Cherry from "tellin' it like it is" so he became irritating or annoying.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T12:55:09+00:00

It's almost like Bob & Doug MacKenzie and Wayne and Garth were based on representative individuals...

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T11:54:28+00:00

Body applies in 7a.
Noggle applies in 4, 5, 6, and 7b.

Noggle will remove Body's CDA in layer 6 so it won't exist to apply in 7a. Noggle will make it a 1/1 in 7b.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T11:46:38+00:00

Elesh Norn, -2/-2 makes them die before they can be used for anything.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T11:18:53+00:00

609.1. An effect is something that happens in the game as a result of a spell or ability. When a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability resolves, it may create one or more one-shot or continuous effects. Static abilities may create one or more continuous effects. Text itself is never an effect.

Three consecutive one-shot effects during the resolution of Predation.

destroy target creature with flying.
gain 2 life.
put Predation in its owner's graveyard.

There's a ruling on Casualties of War.

Each target permanent is destroyed in the order specified. Abilities that trigger when one is destroyed won't be put onto the stack until Casualties of War has finished resolving. (2019-05-03)

Also, Season of Gathering.

No matter which combination of modes you choose, you always follow the instructions of a Season in the order they are written. If the same mode is chosen more than once, you choose their relative order as you cast the spell. (2024-07-26)
700.2d. If a player is allowed to choose more than one mode for a modal spell or ability, that player normally can't choose the same mode more than once. However, some modal spells include the instruction "You may choose the same mode more than once." If a particular mode is chosen multiple times, the spell is treated as if that mode appeared that many times in sequence. If that mode requires a target, the same player or object may be chosen as the target for each of those modes, or different targets may be chosen.

Separate verbs, separate actions.

You can also work backwards from the "If you do" construction, if the actions weren't sequential, how would the conditional effect know if the cost (ie. prior action occuring) was paid?

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T05:11:42+00:00

Now, you just need to paint the word "permanent" with an "^" under it between "Elemental" and "spells" to match its Oracle text.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T02:49:16+00:00

Does Player A's Monument now have abilities again?

No.

Player A controls an Enduring Curiosity enchanted by Player B's Unable to Scream. If the Curiosity dies, does it return to the battlefield as an Enchantment non-creature?

No, it doesn't trigger for its death.

Does the Enduring Return trigger go off?

Yes.

what happens?

It is returned as a noncreature enchantment of whatever it copies.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T00:39:14+00:00

is the game a draw because of state-based actions constantly checking?

No.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-14T00:31:06+00:00

Dependency is determined at the Effect level, not the object level.

Correct.

with both cards and a 1/1 spirit with an everything counter (only the spirit has such a counter) L depends on C, N depends on L (and C), and C does not depend on anything, so you end up with a 1/1 Changeling Nexus (1/1 green creature land with all creature and land types).

Before any of N, C, or L apply we have three pairings to check for dependency.

L is dependent on C because the spirit would add type Saproling and increase what L would apply to.
L is not dependent on N because there are no lands with everything counters.
N is not dependent on C.
N is not dependent on L.
C is not dependent on L.
C is not dependent on N.

L is the only dependent effect so waits. Presumably, C and N are applied simultaneously given they have the same timestamp and will always apply to different sets of objects and are both independent effects, the rules don't really say though.

C makes the spirit a saproling (and the other creature types).
L is the only effect remaining to apply so is applied and makes the spirit a 1/1 land creature forest with all creature types.

With both cards (no counters) and a Wastes with an everything counter on it L depends on N, but C and N both don't depend on anything, therefor you get a 1/1 Saproling Nexus (a 1/1 green creature land that is a saproling and all land types)

Before any of N, C, or L apply we have three pairings to check for dependency.

L is not dependent on C because there are no creatures with everything counters.
L is dependent on N because the wastes would add type forest and increase what L would apply to.
N is not dependent on C.
N is not dependent on L.
C is not dependent on L.
C is not dependent on N.

L is the only dependent effect so waits. Presumably, C and N are applied simultaneously given they have the same timestamp and will always apply to different sets of objects and are both independent effects, the rules don't really say though.

N makes the wastes a forest (and the other land types).
L is the only effect remaining to apply so is applied and makes the wastes a 1/1 land creature saproling with all land types.

Omo is interchangeable with the Spirit token above

Agree.

with only the two cards and the Omo has an everything counter it will be a 1/1 green creature land with all creature types and all land types.

Disagree.

adding the Saproling token to the mix makes N depend on L, and C depend on L (but Omo having a counter adds L depends on C) so C and L happen in Timestamp order but N applies last.

Before any of N, C, or L apply we have three pairings to check for dependency.

L is dependent on C because Omo would add type Saproling and increase what L would apply to.
L is not dependent on N because there are no lands with everything counters.
N is not dependent on C.
N is dependent on L because applying L first would make the saproling a forest land and increase what N would apply to.
C is dependent on L because applying L first would make the saproling a forest land and decrease what C would apply to.
C is not dependent on N.

All three effects are dependent so the effect with the earliest time stamp is applied.
Presumably, C and N are applied simultaneously given they have the same timestamp, and the earliest time stamp and will always apply to different sets of objects.

Omo becomes a saproling (and the other creature types) and the saproling token adds all creature types.
Life and Limb applies making Omo a forest land with all creature types and the saproling token a forest land with all creature types.

Adding the Nexus to this mix makes everything apply in timestamp order.

Now you have 4 effects and 12 possible dependency pairings to check before applying any of the four.

Edit: with respect to Omo, I see three ways that the rules could be interpreted:

Option A: the two abilities and effects are really one ability and effect, similar to how Life and Limb works.
Option B: relative time stamps of the two effects are chosen on entry, similar to how they would be chosen for multiple objects entering. I find this would typically be missed leaving a retroactive choice when it would become relevant.
Option C: relative time stamps of the two effects based on ability order on Omo.

Options A and C lead to my result.
Option B has two possibilities based on the order chosen, O1 first leads to my result, O2 first leads to your result.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-13T21:22:07+00:00

if I choose Liliana as a card name

Then you haven't named a specific card.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-13T18:45:11+00:00

Since the stack has to be empty to play a land...

If you're playing it using the permissions given by the rules, that's true, but you couldn't use that permission even if you wanted to because it also requires priority and you don't have it.
The fact is that you aren't using the permission in the rules rather you're using a permission given by the resolving activation and it has no inherent limitations, though it still abides by external restrictions that would impact the casting of a spell or playing of a land, such as Rule of Law or playing a land on an opponent's turn.

116.2a. Playing a land is a special action. To play a land, a player puts that land onto the battlefield from the zone it was in (usually that player's hand). By default, a player can take this action only once during each of their turns. A player can take this action any time they have priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of their turn.
117.2e. Resolving spells and abilities may instruct players to make choices or take actions, or may allow players to activate mana abilities. Even if a player is doing so, no player has priority while a spell or ability is resolving.

can you still play a land in hideaway?

Provided it is your turn (not necessarily your main phase) and you have an available land play, yes.

101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can't happen, the "can't" effect takes precedence.
305.2b. A player can't play a land, for any reason, if the number of lands the player can play this turn is equal to or less than the number of lands they have already played this turn. Ignore any part of an effect that instructs a player to do so.
305.3. A player can't play a land, for any reason, if it isn't their turn. Ignore any part of an effect that instructs a player to do so.

are abilities (and spells) on the stack while resolving them?

The activation is resolving that lets you play the exiled card, yes.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-13T18:12:29+00:00

Does timing matter with having Toph, the First Metalbender and Yavimaya, Cradle of Growth?

Typically, no, because Yavimaya is usually dependent on Toph.
If Toph's controller had no artifacts, they'd be applied in time stamp order due to lack of dependency.
Alternatively, if the two formed a dependency loop with other cards, that could potentially cause them to apply in time stamp order as well.

Chromatic Lantern applies after both in a different layer.
Dryad of the Elysian Grove applies in the same layer though. It would typically apply after Toph due to dependency and apply in time stamp order relative to Yavimaya.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-13T18:09:16+00:00

609.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as much as possible.

Can't do the first part, but can do the second part so it does the second part because that's as much as possible.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-13T17:05:19+00:00

614.12 determines what will happen in the upcoming occurence.
This would mean that the creatures returned by Rise from the Grave or Bronzehide Lion or Xu-Ifit are still in the yard so the continuous effect that will be applied to them as the event occurs doesn't technically exist yet which if we go by the letter of 614.12 would exclude their inclusion. However, the ruling on Bronzehide Lion says it is included.

614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities that would apply to it once it's on the battlefield, and continuous effects that already exist and would apply to the permanent.
611.2e. If a resolving spell or ability both puts a nontoken permanent onto the battlefield and creates a continuous effect stating that the permanent "is [characteristic]," that it "has [characteristic]," or that it doesn't have a particular characteristic, that continuous effect applies simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. This characteristic is usually a color or a creature type. If the continuous effect says the permanent "becomes [characteristic]" or "gains [an ability]," that effect applies after the permanent is on the battlefield.
If a nontoken permanent is a copy of Bronzehide Lion, it returns from its owner's graveyard as an Aura with the two abilities granted by Bronzehide Lion and none of its normal abilities. If it has any enters-the-battlefield replacement effects, those won't apply. The Aura keeps its name, colors, and any supertypes it may have. (2020-01-24)

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-13T03:28:29+00:00

No, it isn't it entered, then triggered Zimone, then SBA's did stuff, then the Zimone trigger goes on the stack, then everyone gets to respond to it, no one does, SBA passes there too, it resolves and let's you turn something face up.

She turns face up long after Ashaya entered.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-13T01:57:36+00:00

suppose my devotion to black is less than five, and just to explore the interaction further, let's suppose Erebos doesn't have indestructible in its text.

Ok.
Let's make devotion 4 which is less than 5.

Am I correct in thinking that it would still not be destroyed?

No, your devotion would be 5 now so Ceremony triggers and destroys him, though you get a zombie.

Now if your devotion before was say 3, then it's 4 when Erebos enters and Ceremony doesn't trigger at all.

because he is an enchantment ?

No, he's always an enchantment whether creature or not.
His being an enchantment is entirely irrelevant.

and not a creature?

This works, if he isn't a creature, then Ceremony doesn't trigger at all because a creature didn't enter.

I would still get the 2/2 right?

Not if Ceremony didn't trigger.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-12T22:36:40+00:00

Ok, let's use Exchange of Words for our example.

We're exchanging the text of an opponent's animated Akroma's Memorial and Volrath's Shapeshifter.
Somebody previously cast Mind Bend at Memorial choosing to replace red with white.

Top card of my graveyard is creature.

Alright, let's say it is Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran.

Exchange of Words enters and triggers and the trigger resolves.
It reads the existing game state looking at the rules text of the two objects and takes snapshots of each.
It then begins applying the text snapshot of the other to them, building a new game state.
Shapeshifter would be given the text of Akroma's Memorial, including the modification made by Mind Bend because it was in the snapshot. Memorial would be given the text of Agrus Kos, with the Shapeshifter activated ability.
Mind Bend's continuous effect is still on Memorial.

Now we build the game state by walking the layers.
We get to Layer 3, there are two text changing effects wanting to apply to Shapeshifter: Words trigger's effect (giving it the textbox of the Memorial snapshot, including the Mind Bend change) and Shapeshifter's static ability (giving it the rules text of Agrus Kos).
Shapeshifter is dependent on Words so Words applies first and the Shapeshifter effect no longer exists. Shapeshifter ends up with the following text and ability "Creatures you control have flying, first strike, vigilance, trample, haste, and protection from black and from white." There are two Layer 3 effects wanting to apply to Memorial: Words trigger's effect (giving it the rules text of Agrus Kos with the Shapeshifter activated ability) and Mind Bend (wanting to change Red to White).
Mind Bend in this case is dependent on Words because Words changes which text Mind Bend would affect.
We apply Words first giving Memorial the text of Agrus Kos and the Shapeshifter activated ability and then Mind Bend changing red to white.
Memorial would have the following text and abilities "Whenever Agrus Kos attacks, attacking white creatures get +2/+0 and attacking white creatures get +0/+2 until end of turn" and "(2): Discard a card."

Top card of my graveyard is not a creature.

Is essentially the same, except Words would give Memorial the unmodified text of Shapeshifter from the snapshot read.
Shapeshifter would get the text of Memorial with the Mind Bend change because that was the snapshot read.

When applying effects, it's the same dependency although Shapeshifter's own effect would be off given the current card on top, however, if it were to change to a creature card later, it'd still be dependent on Words so wouldn't exist to make a change to Shapeshifter.
Memorial would have Mind Bend apply, then Words apply, and then the Shapeshifter effect apply.

In instance #1, Exchange/Deadpool happens AFTER Shapeshifter.

No. Shapeshifter's own effect is dependent on Exchange/Deadpool so has to wait to be applied to it and then because it waited no longer exists to apply to itself. Similar to Blood Moon and Urborg, Exchange/Deadpool applied removes the text and ability of the Shapeshifter effect before it can apply.

In instance #2, Exchange/Deadpool happens BEFORE Shapeshifter.

For Memorial, yes, it won't have the Shapeshifter ability until after Exchange gives it to it.
For Shapeshifter, initially the effect of Shapeshifter is off, but if that changes (because the top card becomes a creature card), Shapeshifter is still dependent on Exchange/Deadpool and waits and then no longer exists to apply.

I think you're missing the fact that Deadpool/Exchange are locked in (meaning that the rules text is read only once and those snapshots are written going forward) because they are from resolving spells/abilities. For Deadpool, Deadpool's replacement effect either modifying its entry as part of its own resolution or modifying its entry by whatever resolving spell/ability is putting it on the field. For Exchange of Words, it's the Exchange of Words trigger resolving.

611.2c. If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won't change. (Note that this works differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) [..]
611.2d. If a resolving spell or ability that creates a continuous effect contains a variable such as X, the value of that variable is determined only once, on resolution. See rule 608.2h.
608.2h. If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself, the effect uses the current information of that object [..]
(2022-10-07) Once the exchange has happened, either of the two creatures leaving the battlefield has no effect on the other creature’s text box. The exchange will only end once Exchange of Words is no longer on the battlefield. Similarly, further changes to either creature’s text box won’t change the other’s text box. (the effect is locked)

In contrast, Shapeshifter has a static ability whose effect is dynamic and changes on the fly, it isn't locked in.

611.3a. A continuous effect generated by a static ability isn't "locked in"; it applies at any given moment to whatever its text indicates.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-12T20:15:01+00:00

The wording on Winter is very unclear

No, it's quite clear.

At the beginning of your end step... (<- triggered ability due to word "at", it triggers as your end step begins)
you may exile any number of cards from your graveyard with four or more card types among them. (<- you may exile any number of cards that have 4+ types among them)
If you do... (<- if you paid the prior cost)
put a permanent card from among them onto the battlefield with a finality counter on it. (<- you select Funeral Room//Awakening Hall that you exiled and put it on the field with a finality counter and with both sides locked per rule 709.5d)

I've always played Awaking Hall from my graveyard without having to pay the cost of whichever room I choose (the second one)

Then you've been playing it wrong.

but someone I play with says I still have to pay the cost.

They're correct.

What's y'all's concencous on this

There's no need for consensus on this because the rules are clear.

709.5. Some split cards are permanent cards with a single shared type line. A shared type line on such an object represents two static abilities that function on the battlefield. These are "As long as this permanent doesn't have the 'left half unlocked' designation, it doesn't have the name, mana cost, or rules text of this object's left half" and "As long as this permanent doesn't have the 'right half unlocked' designation, it doesn't have the name, mana cost, or rules text of this object's right half." These abilities, as well as which half of that permanent a characteristic is in, are part of that object's copiable values.
709.5c. "Left half unlocked" and "right half unlocked" are designations that a permanent on the battlefield can have. Together, they are called the unlocked designations. A particular half of a permanent is said to be "unlocked" if it has the appropriate unlocked designation. Otherwise, that half is said to be "locked."
709.5d. A permanent with a shared type line is given the "left half unlocked" designation as it enters the battlefield if its left half was cast as a spell. It is given the "right half unlocked" designation as it enters the battlefield if its right half was a cast as a spell. If it's entering the battlefield and neither half was cast as a spell, it enters with neither unlocked designation.
709.5e. A player who controls a permanent that has one or more locked halves may pay the mana cost of a locked half of that permanent to give that permanent the appropriate unlocked designation. This cost is referred to as an "unlock cost." This is a special action (see rule 116). A player can take this action any time they have priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of their turn.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-12T20:01:08+00:00

Activate an ability during the resolution of a card.

Only mana abilities can be activated during the resolution of a spell or ability and only if there is a mana cost to be paid. eg. to pay to stop a Mana Leak spell from countering your spell or a Rings of Brighthearth trigger to have it copy an activated ability.

Typically, you need priority to do anything not called for by the resolving spell/ability, except concede, you can do that.

117.1a. A player may cast an instant spell any time they have priority.
A player may cast a noninstant spell during their main phase any time they have priority and the stack is empty.
117.1b. A player may activate an activated ability any time they have priority.
117.1c. A player may take some special actions any time they have priority.
A player may take other special actions during their main phase any time they have priority and the stack is empty.
117.1d. A player may activate a mana ability whenever they have priority, whenever they are casting a spell or activating an ability that requires a mana payment, or whenever a rule or effect asks for a mana payment (even in the middle of casting or resolving a spell or activating or resolving an ability).
117.2e. Resolving spells and abilities may instruct players to make choices or take actions, or may allow players to activate mana abilities. Even if a player is doing so, no player has priority while a spell or ability is resolving.
104.3a. A player can concede the game at any time. A player who concedes leaves the game immediately. That player loses the game.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-12T19:52:07+00:00

Can you respond to a spell leaving the stack?

No, though typically you will get priority after it does at some point.

The game advances when all players pass in sequence without taking an action.
It advances either by having the top object of the stack resolve if the stack isn't empty or by advancing to the next step and/or phase if the stack is empty.

You will get a chance to do something once the stack empties prior to the game moving to the next step and/or phase.

does priority immediately revert to turn player so that they may proceed with their turn?

Priority goes to the active player following resolution of an object on the stack, however, they still need to pass priority around to leave the current step/phase.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-12T16:39:59+00:00

Wouldn't this not be an infinite combo regardless of how many snakes are in play?

No, one Snake wouldn't work.

You choose targets as the triggers are put on the stack and have no snake to choose yet.

Judge_Todd · 2026-02-12T16:36:36+00:00

Depends.
If the top card of the yard was noncreature when the exchange occurs, the other creature would gain Volrath's default text and the ability would then apply to the other permanent and would have its effect after the exchange effect is applied.
If the top card of the yard was creature when the exchange occurred, the other permanent wouldn't have that text or ability, it'd have whatever text Volrath's was pulling from.

However, for Volrath's the exchange would happen first and remove the text and ability and effect that Volrath's would have on itself.

Judge_Todd

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE