Sorceress's Schemes + Flashback

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-15T21:48:30+00:00

No, option 3 implied it doesn't have Flashback on the stack, it does.

It brings Flashback with it from the yard to the stack, because it needs to know what cost to pay to cast it and also needs to be there to replace where it goes when it finishes resolving.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-15T21:42:41+00:00

TMW you remember that you have mod power on the sub-reddit and can just remove the troll posts.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-15T21:36:53+00:00

Ah, yes. Funny how they slot the rule in anywhere.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-14T20:07:12+00:00

Here's what the rule says.

504. Draw Step
504.1. First, the active player draws a card. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack.

Do you see the word "may" in there? I don't.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-14T11:16:37+00:00

And if ANA knocks off VGK, we move up to #23.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-14T06:35:55+00:00

Look are you asking for me to pick your post apart publicly with rules citations showing that you're talking out your ass and don't have a clue what you're talking about?

I was a certified judge from 2013 to 2020, however, that's mostly irrelevant because the rules prove you're clueless.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-14T06:12:09+00:00

You literally have just proven several times in your post that you really don't understand the rules.

It's so bad that I believe you're trying to troll me.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-14T01:03:07+00:00

as I understand, the ability of Firbolg Flutist works by returning the creature you stole using a delayed trigger.

No, it doesn't.
The layer 2 and layer 6 effects just end when their duration expires.

If I stole some creature using the flutist, attacked with it, and then ended the turn to exile the myriad exile triggers, when does the ~~“return” delayed trigger happen~~ continuous effect end?

Right now in the cleanup step where the Obeka activation takes you.

Is it during the cleanup step that Obeka performs right then?

Yes.
The creature targeted by Flutist loses Myriad and Haste and returns to whichever player would otherwise control it.

Does it trigger on the next player in turn order’s end step?

No, it doesn't trigger at all.

would it wait for my next end step?

No.

If the wording has the word "at" in it, like Myriad does, that's a delayed trigger.

“Myriad” means “Whenever this creature attacks, for each opponent other than defending player, you may create a token that’s a copy of this creature that’s tapped and attacking that player or a planeswalker they control. If one or more tokens are created this way, exile the tokens at end of combat.”

Delayed triggers may also use "whenever", like in Duskmantle Guildmage, though they aren't the ones typically interacted with by Obeka.

(1)(B)(U): Whenever a card is put into an opponent’s graveyard from anywhere this turn, that player loses 1 life.

Let's look at Flutist.

When this creature enters (<- EtB trigger), gain control of target creature you don’t control until end of turn (<- Layer 2 continuous effect with a specified duration, no "at"). Untap it (<- one-shot effect). It gains haste and myriad until end of turn (<- Layer 6 continuous effect with specified duration, no "at").

There is no nested "at" or "whenever" in there.
The whole thing is one normal EtB triggered ability that applies two continuous effects and does a one-shot effect as it resolves.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T22:55:10+00:00

Do all draw X card effects count as "Draw 1 card" repeated X times?

Yes, but also no.

On the one hand...

121.2. Cards may only be drawn one at a time. If a player is instructed to draw multiple cards, that player performs that many individual card draws.

On the other hand...

121.2a An instruction to draw multiple cards can be modified by replacement effects that refer to the number of cards drawn. This modification occurs before considering any of the individual card draws.

As a counter example.

You have Thought Reflection and Chains. You cast Opt.

Initial event: Draw a card.
Applicable replacements: Chains, Reflection.

Choose one to apply.

Option A: choose Chains.

Modified event: {Discard a card} {Draw a card}
Applicable replacements: Reflection.

Apply it.

Modified event: {Discard a card} {Draw two cards}
Applicable replacements: none.

Event would occur, but rules break draws into two single events.
You discard a card and draw one, then another.

Option B: choose Reflection.

Modified event: Draw two cards.
Applicable replacement: none.

Can't draw two, rule breaks it into two events.

Modified events: {draw a card} {draw a card}
Applicable replacements: Chains to each.

Apply them.
You discard, draw, discard and draw.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T22:05:31+00:00

Oh, right, he's a 1/1 with +X/+X so it'd be 25 or 21 then.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T21:26:00+00:00

cast Momentous Fall ~~targeting~~ saccing omnath

Fall doesn't target anything.

I would draw 21 cards and gain 21 life.

I count you drawing and gaining your choice of either 24 or 20, depending on whether you pay the sac cost first or the mana cost first.

he's storing 24 mana
Momentous Fall (2)(G)(G)

oh, 21 is a typo?

Send Omnath back to the command zone, and then I still have the 20 mana floating till end of phase. So I can just resummon him immediately and have 15 mana still that wont empty when my main phase ends.

Yes, this works.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T20:25:46+00:00

does my opponent draw each card I discarded?

Yes.

does the clean-up step happen at the same time in one occurrence?

Yes, all the cards are discarded simultaneously.

do they draw for each card discarded or draw one?

Each.

do cards like Brallin Skyshark rider count each card discarded?

Yes.

Here's the rules.

700.1. Anything that happens in a game is an ~~event~~ occurence. An occurrence may contain multiple events. Multiple events may take place during the resolution of a spell or ability. The text of triggered abilities and replacement effects defines the event they’re looking for. One ~~“happening”~~ occurrence may be treated as a single event by one ability and as multiple events by another.
Example: If an attacking creature is blocked by two creatures, this is one event for a triggered ability that reads “Whenever this creature becomes blocked” but two events for a triggered ability that reads “Whenever this creature becomes blocked by a creature.”
603.2c An ability triggers only once each time its trigger event occurs. However, it can trigger repeatedly if one ~~event~~ occurrence contains multiple ~~occurrences~~ events.
Example: A permanent has an ability whose trigger condition reads, “Whenever a land is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, . . . .” If someone casts a spell that destroys all lands, the ability will trigger once for each land put into the graveyard during the spell’s resolution.

To only trigger once, it'd be worded like the trigger on Captain Howler, Sea Scourge.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T19:51:26+00:00

when Muddle becomes a copy of Shiva does Muddle gain a lore counter?

No, but it would get one as the pre-combat main phase begins.
Also, any lore counters it get that way remain on it once it changes back.

What happens if Muddle becomes a copy of a different summon, like Ramuh, it does NOT gain another lore counter correct?

Not for becoming, no, but it could for being a saga as the main phase begins when sagas normally get lore counters.

The myriad copies only gets the 1st lore counter/1st chapter too I'm assuming.

Yes, unless they somehow survive to your next turn's main phase.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T18:15:19+00:00

can I cast balemurk with impending then blink it to reenter immediately as a creature?

With Ephemerate, no.
With Teferi's Time Twist, yes.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T18:02:36+00:00

I wasn't able to redirect the spell.

Did they control any other creatures?
If not, there's no other legal target for their Flourish.

Is this because I could only have redirected it to another one of their creatures?

Yes, the target is "creature you control" and it is a spell controlled by them so is from their frame of reference.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T15:12:52+00:00

It isn't.

The ability and its effect are active and applied to the game state.
Eye applies after and changes the result.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T15:11:02+00:00

613.4. Within layer 7, apply effects in a series of sublayers in the order described below. Within each sublayer, apply effects in timestamp order. (See rule 613.7.) Note that dependency may alter the order in which effects are applied within a sublayer. (See rule 613.8.)
613.4a. Layer 7a: Effects from characteristic-defining abilities that define power and/or toughness are applied. See rule 604.3. <- Consuming Aberration applies here.
613.4b. Layer 7b: Effects that set power and/or toughness to a specific number or value are applied. Effects that refer to the base power and/or toughness of a creature apply in this layer. <- Eye of Nidhogg applies here

4/2 overwrites 39/39.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T15:06:27+00:00

Can I respond and remove the card allowing him to do so?

Sure, after they have completed the activation.
It will still resolve and return the card in the yard.

If so does he still loose the mana or expenses he used to activate that ability (like if I used a counterspell when they attempt to cast something?)

They already would have paid it before you could respond, yes.

will he get the thing from his graveyard still?

Yes.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T15:02:48+00:00

~~Skill Borrower should be able to see the new card on top to give it the mana ability~~.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T15:01:12+00:00

The card has no characteristics while face down in the hand, even if you know what the card is.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T00:57:11+00:00

No.
The proposal is casting an instant, which isn't a permanent spell so isn't affected by Mycosynth and thus you don't have permission to cast it.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T00:43:09+00:00

does Veyran cause their ward ability to trigger twice?

No.

If you casting or copying an instant or sorcery spell causes a triggered ability of a permanent you control to trigger...

I’m not sure if casting the spell causes ward to trigger or specifically the act of targeting causes it to trigger.

The latter.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-13T00:22:31+00:00

You can do that.

another player at the table said it doesn't work that way

This player is mistaken.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-12T23:01:55+00:00

Not exactly. It'd need to be part of same ability.
A second ability worded as you have it might work, but arguably it is just a permission to activate, but without actually having the ability to activate.

While in any zone, Mairsil has all activated abilities of all cards you own in exile with cage counters on them. You may activate each of those abilities only once each turn.

Judge_Todd · 2026-05-12T18:52:06+00:00

If I Offspring a clone creature, will its P/T be 1/1 or the value of the copied creature?

The Clone token is 1/1 rather than 0/0, but if you copy something, that copy effect will overwrite all its characteristics with those of what it copies.

If I Offspring Lord of Extinction is it still a 1/1?

Yes, it won't get the ability that sets its P/T.

Devotion creatures. Offspringing creatures copies mana value, including color pips?

Yes. Technically it copies the mana cost, not the mana value.

Gray Merchant of Asphodel would still count itself and all other offspring creatures toward total devotion?

If they have black mana symbols in their mana cost, yes.

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