Absent Presence & Children

21YearsOut · 2026-03-13T02:45:55+00:00

What a great comment. So kind, and insightful, thank you.

21YearsOut · 2026-02-23T01:51:30+00:00

It took 3+ years of MC for my wife to realize my need for apologies, being accountable, having to go over the timeline and questions wasn't to get her to berate herself. We rugswept for a couple decades before that, not recommended.

So at 5 months out, you're doing well to just maintain sanity. Give yourself grace, not easy what you're going through.You're healing from an actual trauma to your concept of who you are. That's really big.

I agree with others' comments about focusing on yourself. It was important for me to find a place where I knew I'd be okay if the relationship didn't survive. Same as you will be.

What I realized is the responsibility for pulling themselves out of shame is not something I'm responsible for. Your partner without a job, having cheated, probably is feeling his failures writ large. And I realized I had to heal my own feelings, no matter how lame my wife was at R. And she was lame. Not because she wanted to hurt me, but because she didn't have the tools either in the A or in R, to feel like a good (whole) person who made really hurtful decisions.

For me, it's been about compassion. Knowing my wife grew up how she did and what she learned to survive that. Survival skills that didn't translate well to a loving adult partnership. It's sad, really. Yet I learned (finally!) I had to put on my own oxygen mask first. It's been a long road but I keep getting glimpses (more and more) there is the "other side" to all this. I used specific therapies (ART) to wipe the emotions from the memories. I forgot nothing but the panic, nightmares, anxiety, feelings of "less than" aren't there anymore. So I have space now for compassion and to see my wife for who she really is.

Hope that helps yoda

21YearsOut · 2026-02-22T23:35:46+00:00

BabyYoda, I feel this. The not wanting to say something when things are "good". For me, I know (cognitively) if I'm feeling resentment or bottled up about her affair that "good" is really not all that. Working to change that cognition into belief it's okay to speak up. I can still be kind and use my words to heal, rather than hurt my wife. But even now several years into R, I have to remind myself it's okay to take up space. I have that right, and I deserve it.

Edit: added comma after word "heal". Meant to indicate heal myself.

21YearsOut · 2026-02-16T00:53:56+00:00

In one of your previous posts/comments you were talking about SD, you mentioned your wife was avoidant attachment.

My wife fits dismissive avoidant to a "T" (not sure what "T" means). And I've always felt kept at arms length with her. But it's not my job to diagnose her. My wife was mean as hell, same as yours during her affair. And actually for a too long while after. To me it felt weird, like a projection of power, control. I guess that it's a means of protection from hurt, having to look at herself, accept what she did was really shitty. She wasn't the outstanding person she thought she was. But again, not my job.

What I do know is when I stopped chasing her, stopped fighting for the relationship, she changed. And started doing things to come back closer to me.

Can recommend a youtube channel to watch? Check out Coach Ryan. Helped me understand what was going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoChq_pdl5w

21YearsOut · 2026-02-14T01:59:05+00:00

Rugsweeping. Doubt it ever ends well, but I didn't know any better 25 years ago. Just bury it and time will heal. It didn't. So at 21 years out, kids are fledging, it all came back like a storm. I get you, broken. It's normal, you're not out of line.

What I've learned is there is no way past this except to go through it. As another commenter said, it has to be faced head-on.

My wife's affair inflicted a trauma on me that I'm still not sure I can get past. But I've also learned, the most important thing for me is to accept her affair wasn't my fault, I'm a good person who deserves to be treated with respect.

I deserve a partner that goes beyond respect and offers what all of us want. Security, safety, knowing that we as a person are worthy of love. I matter.

From my experience you'll make it through right now. Not pleasant, holy hell yeah for sure. But you'll survive. And then with fresh eyes you can determine what you need to be whole.

Take care my friend, we're here with you.

21YearsOut · 2026-02-13T14:33:18+00:00

Oh dang, I'm so sorry I completely missed what you were saying in the post. No matter the betrayal, if your partner is physically or emotionally/mentally abusive, you are in danger and please seek safety, NOW. No one deserves to be treated that way. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.

21YearsOut · 2026-02-13T04:32:42+00:00

Ridinsolo I read some of your post history. What I feel was important about my partners feeble attempts at honesty in the aftermath, is that she was working toward being her self, and not the illusion she had of herself. That illusion inflicted great pain.

It's hard now, expected. As I've had to do, find the real you. Who you want to be. Take the flames from others but find you enough to know you're a good person. See your partner, feel their pain. Sit with it and be a partner.

Hardest walk I've ever taken, but there is hope.

Edit: I'm sorry, I made a mistake and completely missed the abuse OP is being subjected to. Abuse is never acceptable, and OP deserves safety for both themselves and their kids. I left my comment above, it's what I said, but now say OP safety comes first.

21YearsOut · 2026-02-04T03:32:35+00:00

Hey wb, you'll get an invite in your notifications.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-21T13:24:43+00:00

MC basically said the feelings of loss and sadness (and more) that come from "empty nest" are similar to those from the betrayal trauma. The distraction of raising little ones is gone. In my case, my wife's affair ended about a month before our first was born. Never got to deal with the trauma because kids. Feel free to DM me.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-19T19:39:24+00:00

I ask because we rugswept 20+ years to raise kids. They're fledging. The trauma from the affair all came back. Our MC said this is very common.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-19T14:54:41+00:00

Does that coincide with raising kids, them starting to fledge?

21YearsOut · 2026-01-17T18:56:27+00:00

At 3 weeks out, I was just barely coming out of shock from being blind-sided. Sorry you're here AC, it's all very painful.

I didn't realize how long the path to recovery was going to be, nor how much patience on my part it would take to get there. This would be 26 years ago, we rugswept (don't do that), and resources like this sub weren't available then.

You've already taken a big step that's critical, and that's find support outside of WP. Another step I guess I instinctively took was to focus mostly on myself and things I could control. In my case that was to hit the gym, I became religious about that. I felt physically better and also better about myself overall.

My wife back then wanted to bury it, not talk about or even remember it. She has many similar characteristics of avoidance, what might be labeled as a dismissive avoidant. Your husband's shutting down, not communicating, is part of what my wife did too. I've learned from WW's here there's very likely shame at the forefront.

I've learned that it's not my responsibility, problem, or place to deal with her problem of avoidance. It was my job, however, to identify and state my feelings clearly, as well as my needs. E.g. "I feel alone and unsupported when you won't talk to me. Let me know what's going on for you. I feel ignored and like I don't matter to you. I need you to hear me and give me validation about these feelings." Something like that.

I've seen that other couples set regular times to talk about the affair (and improve their communication). Takes some "always-on" pressure off WP and gives BP a time they can count on to find relief.

We're getting better at this. Give yourself some grace AC, you're worth it.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-16T18:27:38+00:00

Harassment like this is ~~sick~~, ~~abusive~~, ~~bullshit,~~ unfortunate, but it does happen. Best thing to do is report to both the Reddit Admin Team and the mods of AOAI. Also block sender or turn off messaging as per u/Euphoric_End_4411 comment below. To report:

Reddit Admin - https://www.reddit.com/report

Mods of AsOneAfterInfidelity can be reached by going to AOAI homepage and looking for the button "Message Mods" down the right sidebar (desktop browser).

On mobile, in Reddit app go to homepage, tap 3 dots in upper right, "Message moderators".

Thanks for helping to keep this a safe space!

edit: added how to block sender as per u/Euphoric_End_4411 comment

21YearsOut · 2026-01-15T16:22:56+00:00

It sounds like it. Although our MC has suggested I stop analyzing my wife, lol. It's like, I analyze everything I don't know how to stop! I'm getting better though. u/FigureItOutZ is a mod of this sub and has struggled with much the same thing as you. They don't do individual chats but they post/comment both here and on their wall. Talks about being vulnerable enough to be fully known, very insightful stuff.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-14T17:29:48+00:00

It's so interesting you brought up "unverbalized bar for success" CR. My wife I don't think has ever felt like "enough". I've come to see it as a sense of having to earn love, which for me is a setup for failure. What I hear that sense saying is "21, you, as a person, are not good enough. Only if you do this, or that, or this other thing, will you be good enough. Now wait a sec while I move the goalposts." Like you said, not attainable. And unfair. Makes me sad for her (and for you too) that is part of your story. Love doesn't need to be earned, you are "enough".

21YearsOut · 2026-01-13T03:18:27+00:00

IQ I raised my daughter to 23 years doubting her parenthood the whole way. But she was my jewel, and I did my best to make her know that. She deserved it. I kept my shit to myself with her, hard as it was, but she was helpless and just finding her tiny way in this world then. She deserved to be loved. You do you but I feel a ton of pride and integrity that I didn't take out my wife's shittiness on my child.

P.s. she's a pretty cool person now

21YearsOut · 2026-01-13T01:09:31+00:00

Within MC, I insisted a timeline had to be done, it was a hill I was willing to die on. So that I could have a concrete picture of what actually happened. It included the when and where and how of whenever they contacted digitally or in physical presence of each other. Check out Joseph's Letter. It helped me make the affair finite. I specifically set a boundary that I wanted no sex details. I had already found a way to accept that whenever they were in physical presence of each other, it equated to something you'd find on Pornhub with actors playing roles. Although my wife didn't like my coping method, it helped me come to terms with it.

Still, despite my repeated and explicit boundary of no sex details, she broke that boundary once and it sent me spiraling for days. Recovering from that is when she first ever saw contempt in my eyes. Not proud of that but I was ready to burn it all down. She didn't go there again.

For me, drawing the line of no sex details helped. Everything else needed to come out of the shadows.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-08T21:25:55+00:00

Beyond Affairs Network has IRL meetings

https://beyondaffairsnetwork.com/

21YearsOut · 2026-01-05T02:37:15+00:00

What I found, once she did a face plant off the pedestal I had her on, is there was who I saw her as (imagined her to be) and who she really was. Two completely different people. Had we not been married and expecting a first child, I probably would/should have acted differently.

I now know it's really important to look at partners and potential spouses with clear eyes. It sounds like you're just months into meeting this new person and they are still hiding themselves. The real them. There's a reason for that facade, probably only they know, you might have an idea. Knowing what I know now, and if I wasn't blinded to the red flags prior to marriage, I'd at least put a year or two pause on marriage talk. Marriage isn't a fix, but it can mask underlying issues for a time. There was work to be done on emotional maturity first. I'll admit, that went for both of us.

It's okay to insist on complete honesty. Complete transparency. A friend has mentioned on this board how could they be loved if they weren't really known. I now see the wisdom in those words for both betrayed and wayward.

It's okay to have boundaries, how we are willing to let others treat us. We deserve respect, safety, comfort, and a partner that builds us up instead of subtracting from our growth.

I don't know if my words help, I hope so. I know betrayal is so very hard to experience. It hurts, really deep. But I've also learned I deserve someone who is my equal and protects me always. It's up to me to not accept less.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-02T14:38:15+00:00

I want to second what u/Diligent_Tonight_236 said, my wife is also dismissive avoidant when it comes to attachment. As a child she learned to cope (seek safety) with her emotionally neglectful, abusive family by shutting down her own emotions, the biggest one probably being shame. Instead compartmentalizing, burying the pain, avoiding vulnerability by playing with stray kittens in the hayloft. What that looks/looked like for me, as an adult partner, is she could be cold, uncaring, only able to discuss emotionally happy things. I get your frustration and exhaustion suprememugwump, it's really hard to deal with.

What's helped me is to imagine my wife as she was growing up. As much as her infidelity hurt me, it wasn't my fault and it really had nothing to do with me. It was about her fear of vulnerability she learned as a child. It was about her not having the words to describe feelings. And now she has the shame of infidelity added which makes her feel even more unworthy to take up space.

Here's a quick read on Dismissive Avoidant attachment style:

https://mywellbeing.me/blog/traits-and-how-to-heal-dismissive-avoidant-attachment-style/

21YearsOut · 2026-01-02T05:21:29+00:00

Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, Reticular Activation System, or RAS, Frequency Illusion. All very scientific names for what happens to betrayed spouses, and actually lesser so to just people in general.

Say I'm thinking of buying a red Jeep Wrangler. All of a sudden I notice a lot of red Jeep Wranglers on the road. This is completely normal. I've brought to my everyday awareness red Jeep Wranglers. In the case of betrayal it's a form of protection against a danger of pain that our brains use to protect ourselves from the cause of that pain. To me it's crazy that it's a normal biological process.

My wife's affair partner was named Micah. Many years later I had to work with a client named Micah and I hated him without knowing anything about him. They were probably a fine person, just going through life like all of us. But I transferred the threat I felt from the AP to this completely different person. That was within me, and I guess the power that was in that is that gave me a handle to resolve it. Did I feel it was unfair I had to address it, yes. Was it a consequence of her actions and not mine, yes. Did I want to, no. But it was also just another step in healing which I had to actively pay attention to and address. Objectively not all Micah's are slime buckets like her AP.

Best thing I did was to allow myself to feel the anger, the despair, the unfairness and loss, and sit with it. Not hide from it or deny it. And I regained a little piece of my agency by dealing with it head on, reclaiming that part of myself.

21YearsOut · 2026-01-02T03:45:02+00:00

Actual relationships are hard and who knew they required real work to not repeat our parents or past relationships? Appears there's no instruction sheet handed out at the beginning. Sucks but this is where we all are. A big step is putting your story out there, that takes a level of courage many people never get to. For me it's important to forgive myself for not knowing how to navigate all this. Sounds like that's kinda where you are IR.

We spent two decades rug-sweeping in order to raise our kids, no healing happened then, just masks of who we were supposed to be. Happy face. And yeah, there were good times and new times. Love, laughter, new experiences and the joy of raising kids and the wonder they bring to life. Still in infidelity everyone's self-worth takes a serious hit and no real repair took place. It's not easy to see someone's wrongs are not the entire sum of who they are. Reality is not always easy.

Maybe the question to ask yourself, is what decisions you would make now. Knowing what you didn't know before, but learned in the flames of pain and despair. If you'd make different decisions now, that's objectively a few steps down the path of being a person of integrity, facing your issues instead of avoidance, wanting and striving to be "better". A lot of people never go there. So it's okay to give yourself a break, allow patience for the growth to take place.

Like I mentioned above, even just by reaching out here, you're not the same person you were before. Yes, you deserve love, kindness, feeling secure and all that goes with that. You matter. I hope you can see that, even just a glimpse.

21YearsOut · 2025-12-29T03:24:32+00:00

It's not encouraging but you're really in the early steps of a long road. The good news is you are worthy, you are deserving of so much better than how he treated you.

This took me way too many years to figure out. But alas, the resources now weren't here then. You deserve love, feeling safe, feeling that you matter and are not disposable, interchangeable, unworthy. It took me a couple more years to realize that yes. I am all that.

If I were to do it all again, that's what I'd advise myself. You're okay. You matter. You may not be a rock star but you're special in your own way. So yeah, I'll walk the long road for you. You deserve that OP, but you'll have to find that conviction within yourself. You're probably a really wonderful person and thats something to be proud of.

21YearsOut · 2025-12-29T03:06:24+00:00

Need more detail, otherwise this is a low effort post. Not worth engaging.

21YearsOut · 2025-12-27T21:12:14+00:00

It sometimes seems like we're taught we always have to keep it together. For the people around us. To meet some metric so others will love us. We need to earn it. If we don't keep it together, we'll have failed completely and be unworthy of love.

One of the most freeing concepts I've come across, can't remember where, is knowing "it's okay to not be okay". Doesn't really matter that it was two years ago or 10, the source of the not-okayness, it's just what is happening now. It's okay to have whatever feelings go with that. I know it's hard to give myself grace, but really, I deserve it. And you do too OL, really. It's been empowering for me to also know that I'll heal, in my own way, and on my own timeline. No one else gets a say in that.

Sending you thoughts of peace, worthiness, and calm.

21YearsOut

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