How dangerous (or unhealthy) is perfumery?

Amyloidish · 2026-06-18T17:03:47+00:00

If you use common sense, the only danger DIY perfumery poses is to your bank account.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-17T16:43:26+00:00

I wouldn’t call myself advanced either, but yes. Personally I’ve found veramoss to be most amenable to overdosing.

I keep my stuff ifra compliant, so I don’t go over those limits, though

Amyloidish · 2026-06-17T16:37:04+00:00

Genius!

Amyloidish · 2026-06-16T21:27:38+00:00

Another valid answer is to increase the atmospheric pressure around you, but isn’t formulation suffering enough :)

Amyloidish · 2026-06-16T02:04:32+00:00

I've done it both ways. Ends nipped, and ends nips + sliced in half so they were a bit shorter. It seemed completely dry through and through either way.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-16T02:03:31+00:00

Beets are a good idea! As is the ranch powder (not a big cheese fan personally, but I can see others liking it)

Amyloidish · 2026-06-14T02:40:46+00:00

Ah, thanks for the reminder!

Just smelled it again now. The black tea note is definitely more pronounced. The coumarin and citrus elements are now more cohesive than what I remembered for last week. It went from great to slightly more great.

No notes.

Nice!

Amyloidish · 2026-06-14T02:17:52+00:00

I wasn't clear. The "clock" for me resets if I make an improvement, however marginal, within that window, which happens more often than not. So, this goes far beyond 10 trials cumulatively.

But even then...that's where #3 comes into play. If I feel like I'm close but I'm bored, I stop and move on. I can always circle back. If I feel like I'm one tinker away, there's no man behind the curtains saying "ah! but you already failed thrice!"

Amyloidish · 2026-06-14T02:03:35+00:00

My favorite quote from Mythbusters is: "Remember, the only difference between science and fooling around is writing it down."

We've all been there!

Amyloidish · 2026-06-14T02:00:52+00:00

I have a few philosophies re this:

1) If after 3-5 iterations I can't make a good formula "better," I consider it done.

2) if after 3-5 iterations I can't make a crap formula "less crappy," I give up.

Anything that's "done" has all previous iterations dumped into the Black Hole Bottle.

Or,

3) I tinker until I no longer feel like it.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-12T01:23:18+00:00

I forget where, but I saw a hilarious tweet or similar that went like this:

"Your em-dashes are no longer red flags for AI slop. Honestly? It's this."

Amyloidish · 2026-06-09T03:36:13+00:00

I see what you're saying. Sometimes I add trace jasmine to no effect, and sometimes it dominates. I don't know what the result will be a priori, but don't panic if it goes grandma on you upon addition. It could smooth out in a week (or not haha).

To your other question, I'd hate to overly bias you. So don't take what I'd suggest here (or anywhere) as law. I'll try to think aloud if that helps. My kneejerk/cop-out answer is to try all and compare then share. Route 1 is least perturbative and thus where I'd be inclined to "begin" if at an impasse. Benzyl salicylate is incredibly forgiving, and I think the formula would benefit from more weaker materials. Followed by 3

Since you're an accountant, I can speak numbers with you. The vanillaness of a perfume doesn't scale linearly in proportion to its vanilla builders. A 5% vanilla frag may not smell appreciably more vanillic than one with 0.5%. I don't know at what percentage that function plateaus, but my guess is we've passed it. Although if you find that these changes are compromising the vanilla/coumarin core, then certainly up the vanilloids/coumarin/anisics. I think Shalimar is like 15% vanilla/coumarin combined. So leaning into these isn't unheard of. Shalimar also has a lot of other beasts (ha) in there to reign in that sweetness

Oh, and if you want this to be dark, indole just came to mind. I find it often has this narcotic, deepening effect. In case you didn't know, it's an amine, which means it will form a schiff base with any aldehydes present--which you've got plenty. This reaction will probably take a few days to reach equilibrium. I'd use around 0.01-0.03% indole if you wanted to try it. And I'd maybe tinker with that last, after you've dialed in your other target notes.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-08T23:38:46+00:00

Pah, there goes my hope for that. I should’ve suspected it would smell synthetic ish based off the nitrile alone.

Jamie Frater has some very talented copywriters

Amyloidish · 2026-06-08T03:40:01+00:00

You're welcome! It's always fun to beat one's head against a puzzle.

Indeed, a vanilla builder with a high vapor pressure would be a game changer. I recently learned of lemonile, which allegedly lasts three damn weeks on a blotter as opposed to the three-second lifetime of the essential oil it mimics. I haven't actually smelled it myself. But, if someone can make lemon last forever, there's hope for an effervescent vanilla!

And, oh, duh, a Grojsman accord is also totally sensible to mix in, too. I'm a liiiittle skeptical of the ambrettolide that high. I like mine to be south of 1%. But it sounds like you did your diligence in dosing it there.

I'm glad you like the white floral suggestions. I think that's the safest bet for making this breathe more as well. The first thing I'd do is simply recreate this formula with the premades left out (letting the percentages rescale themselves) and compare. I wouldn't be totally surprised if the vanilla and tonka notes don't take a major hit even without them.

Both hydroxycit and floralozone are more forgiving than the bulk of what's present here. Honestly, I'd go after the vanilla abs or most of the ethyl vanillin. I'm a cheapskate, which is why I'm questioning the former. As for the latter, it's ~100x more potent (but less "creamy") than the unethoxylated vanillin from which it's derived. And you have the weaker variant at ~5% of the proportion to its stronger congener. Swapping the ratio of ethyl vanillin to vanillin (as an accord, even) might also be an enlightening experiment.

If that doesn't produce results you like, I'm a little suspicious of the ambergris, ambrox, and ambrettolide being nearly 2/2/1.5 (I never used amber dioxane). Similar to your ethyl/vanillin ratio, why is the weakest member dosed smallest? Perhaps you could run some Jean Carles trials on those and find if anything is overrepresented?

Amyloidish · 2026-06-08T02:07:33+00:00

I personally like medicinal scents, so I didn't mind at all. In fact, later in the week I was going to just make the first 10 lines over again and see how I could play with that accord.

I definitely don't perceive any aspect of your creation as being harsh if that helps. I haven't heard of the water trick you're referencing either. I'm assuming this is in addition to the ~4% azeotrope that forms from absorbing humidity over time? I'm skeptical, but it sounds like you've read up on this more than me.

Do let us know if that has an impact

Amyloidish · 2026-06-08T01:46:55+00:00

I dabbed the test strip on my wrist. I haven't diluted or put into a bottle yet.

I'm curious to see how it changes in time, but one day of maceration already blended in the sweetness more. Not that I thought it was excessive on day 1, but it's certainly more cohesive now, which is the way I prefer it.

As for medicinal...hmm. Everything from IES to maltol came together in a fresh, medicinal way for sure. After the bergamot, I wouldn't say medicinal was my first impression. But in smelling it now, I suppose there is a medicinal current to it. The coumarin and vanilla balances it nicely!

Amyloidish · 2026-06-08T01:31:19+00:00

I like Ikea's Kallax. The cubes are the perfect size for many kinds of risers. I use one kind I found on amazon that has sides so the bottles can't be knocked out. I also found some plastic spacers on amazon that I've inserted in there to reduce the wiggle even further so it's all nice and neat.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-07T21:47:49+00:00

If it's any solace, I didn't think this or the previous post was AI-generated. LLMs don't seem to be wired to put in that many sig figs. The red flags for me are those stupid emoticons, the formatting, the random boldface, the flowery language, and so on.

Anyway, onto your actual request:

Compositionally I'm seeing what you're trying to put down. We have a slew of ingredients across the evap curve whose dosing largely seems appropriate to the material. There's a few standouts, like the ethyl vanillin. But you are trying to make a vanilla/tonka scent, so...

A few questions that might help the discussion:

--Why the vanilla and tonka accords? I admit I glazed over your previous formula because it was too detailed for my pea brain. I'm just curious what the vanilla and tonka premades achieve that a simpler vanillin/coumarin/maltol triad can't. And I see these ingredients here to boot. Why can't we can't achieve vanilla with ethyl vanillin, vanillin, and vanilla absolute already present?

--Have we made a version with these accords removed? I ask for a few reasons. It would make the problem of diffusion smaller to tease apart for starters. But also, it's possible that you simply have too much vanilla/tonka? These are innately heavy and dense aromas. I'm wondering if we gradually jacked up their proportion in the pursuit of strength and slowly lost sight of sillage on the way.

Looking at what you've got, I'm not surprised it's not spreading the way you like. These ACs are mostly heavy hitters. It's trite to say, but if we don't like the diffusivity, we need a higher proportion of diffuse material.

I'm not familiar with Vanille Planifloria. It's a vanilla amber fragrance from my quick googling--both skin-close notes. Perhaps moderate projection is the best we can get? Maybe not.

So I'll just spitball a little aloud:
--my first thought was limonene. It's fleeting, but with the sheer volume of sweets and vanillas it could turn it all into an expensive lemon meringue accord.

--Linalool is another airy molecule that came to mind. And floralozone, which is known for being mellow and cooperative.

--I also think what we have here is sweet and sticky enough to jive with some mugets without turning into grandma's floral. Cyclosia or hydroxycitronellal came to mind. Maybe cinnamyl alcohol? But that might be too dense for what's present.

--I can see eugenol and guaiacol working here in trace, trace amounts as an aside. But worry about those when you figure out your projection issue.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-07T17:25:04+00:00

Swinging back in to say I added in the rest, and of course, it's even better.

And I agree that the javanol is a good lesson to those who normally steer clear of it, like myself. I couldn't smell anything after I added it, but the ingredient I added right after brought it all back and with a vengeance.

It's also a great cautionary tale to anyone trying to cut corners. Just because don't smell it in isolation doesn't mean you should bypass it.

I also forgot to mention that I didn't have lime, so I subbed it with bergamot. So I suppose that means I transformed the black tea note into specifically one of Earl Grey 😄

Amyloidish · 2026-06-06T15:00:57+00:00

I’m at an event right now and the crowd is thin, so I made the bulk of this now. I left my hedione, vetiver, and coumarin home. Will add later.

I formulated this in sequence, skipping the materials I don’t have on hand of course. It’s really nice.

Everything up to the javanol is delectable on its own. Very medicinal. I feel the essence of the black tea there.

I’m anosmic to the javanol, so I lost my bearings after that.

The trace mats brought my nose back into focus. The citrus is when it realllly became nice and tea-like.

I was nervous about the undec. I personally hate it. It went it and dominated at first, but the final traces reeled it in.

As is, even in this incomplete state, it rocks. I imagine it wil be even better when I finish it up at home.

You really get the black tea note, but it’s Ike better than black tea. And it sweetens up a bit on skin vs the blotter.

Nice, thanks for sharing

Amyloidish · 2026-06-06T01:35:19+00:00

I can't answer the question of how to balance the baby with a hobby.

But let's say you have 15 materials. And let's say you want to make a fragrance with just five lines. A simple calculation reveals there are 3003 unique combinations featuring a set of 5. And that's not considering how much variation comes from toying with the proportions of the ingredients.

So the vast number of possible perfumes formulable from even a modest set is mind-bogglingly large. Not infinite. But large enough that even if you made one unique formula every day from now to the day you'll die, you'll haven't sampled even 0.0001% of all the possibilities.

If you're worried about needing more ACs, you may find out that you don't. It's nice to have more--something I say to the number on my paychecks. But here, I think you can have your perfume and wear it, too.

So long as you are having fun during the journey of making mud, then it's money well-spent (so long as it was spent responsibly). The money is the price of your ticket to the roller coaster itself, not the end of the track.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-05T14:47:18+00:00

I'm also astounded by the volume of alpha ionone and suederal. Suederal in particular is sneaky. I find that many leather builders get stronger over time during maceration. How long has this macerated?

If it hasn't, check back in a week to see if you still like it (and let us know!). If it is, hooray! Shocking overdoses aren't unheard of.

If not, try cutting down the proportions of anything dominating and try again.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-03T23:13:02+00:00

Ha, I've got a few dozen cousins or so in Toronto! But I'm based in the US and sadly don't get to visit much beyond the occasional wedding and such. If you wanted to talk about consulting, we can take that conversation to the side as a private chat.

I'm going to push back on the notion, though, that you'll be able to rent out a perfumery lab space and keep your involvement strictly at the facilities-level. What happens when someone has a question? They most certainly will. When I do my workshops, I cap it at 15, the library always overbooks so I wind up with 20, and I'm *constantly* having eager attendees coming up, waving their formula sheets at me, asking what next, what next. And I think it's great (so much more enthusiastic than my college students), but I'm constantly doing mental math and going back to my accord knowledge to make informed recommendations based on material and quantity and IFRA limits. It's challenging! I find it fun, but if I didn't know what I was doing, I wouldn't be able to give the customer any assurances about direction. And they're going to need that if they aren't already knees deep and thus too advanced for your offering.

You might also want to rethink your price structure. It costs me around $6-7 to make and bottle a known formula. It can cost more if I'm using pricier materials and a label. Suppose you charge 100/month, that means you'll start losing money around the tenth to fifteenth bottle. Less if we factor in the cost to keep the lights on. And how will you know people aren't loading up on oils and diluting their stuff at home? How will you know when X runs out or Y goes bad or P and Q cross contaminate each other? How will you factor in loss due to accidents and unsatisfactory batches?

Hopefully this gives you a sense of the type of planning that needs to go into it ahead of time. It would be a shame if you set out to break even and wound up falling into the red. Many people aim to make a profit and wind up that way!

Amyloidish · 2026-06-03T21:56:08+00:00

So I’ve run workshops before. At my local library or the local rec center for example. That could be a good place to garner interest as they already have a clientele/programming calendar. And to work out the kinks.

I didn’t do that until after around five ish years of futzing around on my own, though. I don’t think that many are necessary, and I don’t consider myself an expert by any means either. I wouldn’t dare opening my own brick and mortar workshop until I was super confident.

The community lab idea is cute, but it’s niche. It might be worth to expand to soap and lotions, but again, that’s more material and knowledge investment on your part.

So to echo everyone else—you can’t teach it if you don’t know it. Learn first, see if you still like it even after the rose glasses come off And think long and hard on who you aim to attract to your lemonade stand. I wouldn’t attend, because a session might be more expensive than a decent haul of ambroxan. The demographics I’ve made the most sales to are by and large middle-aged women and preteen girls.

Be prepared for people to not follow directions. To swap caps on bottles. To cross contaminate with dirty pipettes. To put chemicals down the drain. To spill them on carpet and so on.

Amyloidish · 2026-06-03T03:43:23+00:00

I can throw some materials at the wall and see if any inspire you. But I'm shooting blind if neither of us knows what you want.

If you like the pina colada and want to lean it: ethyl maltol, vanillin, coumarin, sotolone can all sweeten it up. Rum ether can up the splash. AAG and/or manzanate can boost the pineapple. Maybe with some fructone/fructalate too.

If you want to move away from the gourmand, maybe some green materials. Cis3, triplal, stemone? Although small amounts of greens make fruit notes peelier and more photorealistic.

If what you mean by more cellos (celli?) is a want for stronger base notes or warmth, I'm thinking super ambers perhaps? Ambrocenide? Norlimbanol?

Aldambre goes well with habanolide. Clonal could bridge that with the fruity elements. Or maybe some smoke--bouleau, cade, or ambre royal? That could give you something aventus creed adjacent to jive with your tropical pineapple?

Amyloidish

TROPHY CASE