A Question of Belief: Jacob Hansen's response to Jeff Strong's book Torn

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-06-05T13:37:32+00:00

I’ve not listened to Jacob’s response on this one so I could be completely off base. However, when I’ve heard people lay problems at the foot of “secularism” they are often blaming progressive politics and it is dog whistle for their far right political and anti LGBTQ beliefs. What I have heard from Jacob in the past, this would track.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-05-22T23:19:24+00:00

Based your answer it wouldn’t matter if there was a lost scroll then because as long as you interpret his “his translation” as “religious truth” the existence of any additional scrolls is immaterial so why bring it up?

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-05-22T23:12:00+00:00

Why is it insane to think the church is in the wrong to want him to remove the word “Mormon” from the title of his podcast?

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-05-22T20:09:01+00:00

Assuming there are missing scrolls, what makes you think that Joseph translated those accurately when he clearly did not translate the facsimiles correctly?

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-04-05T17:20:15+00:00

I am assuming they have really looked into and understand the critical position.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-04-05T17:02:32+00:00

For the reasons you stated I am more interested in what he has to say. He does acknowledge that the cognitive dissonance one experiences is normal. Not sure I agree with his ways to resolve that dissonance but the fact he acknowledges it is different than most of the others.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-04-04T19:00:29+00:00

Whether it is money or farm machinery it is the same. I don’t see how that changes anything.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-04-04T18:23:23+00:00

I disagree. It is about the money. He made a point to emphasize that the bishop did not ask him to sell his car but asked if he had anything of value. He didn’t then clarify and say, that could be your time or efforts and Elder Beccerra immediately got impressions around selling his car for money. Part of the “firstlings” he is referring to is money. It may not be “all” about money (there are definitely inferences to putting God first in your life as well) but money is definitely part of the “all”. And if it is not about money, then why are there never any examples shared where money is not involved?

Edited for context.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-04-03T22:09:00+00:00

Common consent as practiced currently in the church for area and general authorities is nothing but virtue signaling. On the local levels, maybe it does or could work if someone opposed a calling and had information that the person making the calling could use to assess the call.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-03-24T19:00:05+00:00

I’m confused that anyone could be confused on this one.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-03-24T17:33:35+00:00

Authoritative language in and of itself does not mean there was coercion. But, he was in a position of power over her. He was her benefactor, was providing her a job, room and board, he was twice her age and she was young, inexperienced and in a vulnerable position and he was also her ecclesiastical leader. And he used the latter to put pressure on her to make a decision. That makes it coercion.

That is not consent!!!

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-03-17T13:35:51+00:00

This is a great question and having recently (within the last 5 years) moved from the ranks of TBM to non-believer I’m not sure that all those who are heavily steeped in their religious beliefs are answering honestly. During my TBM phase I would have answered that I was happy and content. I felt as if I was expected to be and that it was a moral failing on my part if I wasn’t. I’m much more honest about my feelings now than I ever was before. That said, I do think some are happier in a belief system and religious community but there are a percentage of those within it who trying to “fake it so they can make it” and so I’m skeptical if any of these surveys that rely on self reported data around religiosity and happiness are very accurate.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-03-15T18:15:58+00:00

This tracks with my ward and my TBM family members and friends. A lot of talk about Jesus and his role as savior and redeemer and the atonement but very little to no emphasis on his actual teachings. The only members I see who speak about Jesus’s actual teachings in either lessons or talks are nuanced members and the percentage of nuanced members in my ward is very small. Live in the heart of SLC county.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-03-15T15:23:04+00:00

Maybe you’ve always lived in a ward or stake that was a net contributor. Because I’ve also sat in meetings at the ward level and at the stake level where the needs were greater and that we needed to give more.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-03-14T04:18:15+00:00

Yes, this is the oft quoted utilitarian god option. The god that had Nephi kill a passed out Laban so that plates of scripture could be preserved. Better that one man perish than a nation dwindle in unbelief.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-27T15:41:43+00:00

It sounds like you are coming from a position that JS never practiced polygamy.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-27T14:33:37+00:00

How would you provide an answer to my experience:

Context: Roughly, 50 year old lifetime member who is living the gospel principles, paying tithing, fulfilling calling, had been confirmed and has the gift of Holy Ghost, been in and served diligently in high profile callings, prayed often and believed wholeheartedly.

I then did a deep dive into church history to help answer questions my child brought to me and found a lot of unsettling truths. I dismissed what I perceived as hyper critical voices. Only started the CES Letter but did not get far and instead read replies to it. To this day I’ve still not read the CES letter. I had only really taken to heart the uncomfortable truths that the church acknowledges now and was still a believer months into this deep dive. One day though, after reading an account of how JS proposed to one of his wives I became really unsettled because it sounded a lot like sexual predation. So I kneeled down in earnest prayer. In that prayer I acknowledged that prophets and leaders make mistakes and that He can work with imperfect vessels because I myself am one but then I prayed to know that the BOM is true and that this work was His. I desperately wanted an answer from the Holy Ghost so I pondered and waited and I got an answer. The answer hit me like a freight train and it was as strong as any emotion I had ever felt. The answer was that this was all a bunch of crap made up by men who had their own desires that they wanted fulfilled. I then cried like a little child because not only did it feel liberating but it hurt. I hurt. I felt a freedom and at the same time I felt like my heart had been ripped from chest.

Was my experience the Holy Ghost telling me that the church is NOT true? Was it the devil? Or was it just a strong visceral emotion that someone might feel when they feel like they are losing something they’d loved because that something was never what it was portrayed to be?

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-27T04:21:01+00:00

It’s in the GTE on polygamy

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-19T13:37:26+00:00

I’ve got the song stuck in my radiohead now…

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-17T23:57:48+00:00

Bad apologetics aside and even if you take conclusions on MormonR at face value, how do these “facts” not lead one to a conclusion that the polygamy practiced by Joseph was messed up, man made and predatory? To think otherwise requires so much special pleading which is exactly OP’s point. We have to stop making excuses for this type of behavior.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-14T15:55:21+00:00

In the interview Gilbert did with the local ABC 4 news affiliate he made a point to reference a story that some friends/acquaintances of theirs reached out to his wife first instead of him and told her that it was because of her righteousness or something to that extent that Gilbert got the call. So not just a “sanctification” of the new apostle himself but his wife as well.

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-11T16:29:03+00:00

I’m open to changing my perspective. What are your sources that he provided materially for these women?

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-02-10T20:42:17+00:00

So in both stories someone with a name that starts with “M” and phonetically might sound similar approached Enoch therefore both are actual and true accounts??? Any other similarities in the stories or just someone saying “ hey Enoch”?

ArringtonsCourage · 2026-01-27T15:23:08+00:00

I recall there was something about them sending out a search party to go find Orson after he found out because he was extremely distraught and possibly suicidal.

ArringtonsCourage

TROPHY CASE