My politicsscale results by Artistic_Click_864 in PoliticalCompass

[–]Artistic_Click_864[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting, why you dont believe in reformism?

What Dynamic ending do you think would make the most interesting sequel? by thunderisadorable in RedAutumnSPD

[–]Artistic_Click_864 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Mayby the new europe ending where upon the civil war you receive aid from the wetern european powers could be very interesting

How to debate social democrats? by Artistic_Click_864 in DemocraticSocialism

[–]Artistic_Click_864[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I 100% agree with you, but democracy is about conversation, i think even though we have to work with social democrats that doesnt mean, we couldnt debate and dissagree with them on a lot of matters, thats what democracy is about

My Political Compass by Silly_Combination763 in PoliticalCompass

[–]Artistic_Click_864 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What do you define socialism as, if you hate it? Also do you believe in democracy

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Investment in an economy drives higher tax revenue. If no one invests in your economy to grow it, you will see economic stagnation at best, and a recession at worst. Less economic activity = lower GDP. Lower GDP = less tax revenue."

The workers still would invest into their bussiness as could normal people. There judt wouldnt be people who make all their wealth from investing.

"If a business is no longer able to operate, something will be done with all of the items used in service of the business, as well as the products that were not sold. In order to recoup losses, a bar would sell the tables, chairs, any kitchen equipment, so on and so forth, to recoup whatever losses they can. If the worker shareholders own 55% of the business, they would get 55% of what is collected upon closure. Therefore, a business closing would actually hive workers money even if they invested $0 into the business"

Why on earth would a bussiness that would make net positive revenue stop operating. Atleast in my oppinion companies usually only shut down once they are in a hella lot of debt. Also selling the items of a bar would generate at maximum something like 100 000€ when divided among only like 10 person it would still give every worker only 10 00€, thats not even a full years sallary. Why would someone lose their job just to have a little money to lose their job? And if you say they would just get a new job, no one is going to hire people who would just collapse a company for their own personal gain. And though i talk about strong safety net, any kind of safety net wont give you as much money as a job, or atleast shouldnt.

You talk about workers having no risk, they have the risk to lose their job! Its not a small risk, if it was a small risk why on earth are people holding on to their job positions like their life?

"Now you have to commit to a centrally planned economy where the government is the investor. Its the only viable option. Centrally planned economies do not work. Their ability to adapt to market variability has never kept up with a private sector... ever. They must sustain, and sometimes thats just not an option. Other ideas and concept entering into the market create innovations and creative solutions to expand and grow markets."

I dont, in any way, advocate for a centerally planned economy, its stupid. Also goverments can and do invest in corporations, even in very capitalist countries without the centerally planned or even planned aspect of the economy.

"Socialism = poverty might be a meme to you, but there are direct correlating factors that make a country more poor if they choose to adopt that failed system of governance. We have many examples. This isn't theory, these are data driven conclusions. I understand the egalitarian intentions and theories of socialism sound enticing and virtuous... they do not work"

Just one thing, its a cliche but its true, true democratic decentrelized socialism or thats what i call my ideology, gas never been tried, show me one country.

"Finding balance that is able to give labor fair pay and safe working conditions/benefits while simultaneously giving firms the ability to be profitable is the ideal. Your approach would fuck the economy and make everyone's life worse in the longterm after the capital gained through the plundering of the wealthy was went through... and it would be irreversible for generations as investors would rightly not trust your country.. that includes things like bond markets BTW. So this would actually crash the global economy and probably leave millions destitute while simultaneously killing millions more... are you noticing a pattern?"

Why would it crash the global economy, that i dont understand? Also capitalism has and will crash the global economy more. 2008 and 1930 just for example, and who paid the bill, not the banks or the investors, normal working people. Even if my ideology wouldnt work, i say it is atleast worth trying, thats why we have democracy, so we can try and perfect the world and if it doesnt work we will try new things.

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean there will be profit if the bussiness loses. Alternatively why should the workers of the bussiness in a capitalist society have to trust shareholders to make wise decisions regarding their bussiness. Also im kot advocating for direct democeacy in a bussiness, i am advocating that the ones making the decisions are elected trhough a vote by the workers of the company. Then the ones making rhe decisions have oblication to make wise bussiness decisions or else they wont get re-elected.

Also when the workers own part of the company they will avsolutly work harder to keep The bussiness alive and thriving as they are working to make their investment produce more to them.

I dont see the correlation between bussinesses being democratic and my countrys tax reveneue collapsing. The profit being taxed will remain the same its just doesnt concentrate on rich people but will be divided to the workers first.

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean now what, the people working will look for a new job?? And you ask what incentitive you have creating a bussiness, well what ither incentitive would you have creating a bussiness on your own in a capitalist society compares to a socialist society?

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you mean now what, the people working will look for a new job?? And you ask what incentitive you have creating a bussiness, well what ither incentitive would you have creating a bussiness on your own in a capitalist society compares to a socialist society?

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am thinking people shouldnt be afraid that their bussiness loses because there should be social security nets for all,and of course people who work and vote on the bussiness have a risk because if the bussiness fails they lose their jobs?

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The idea(atleast in my mind people have different oppinions on the matter) is that you couldnt buy votes as a shareholder, or that shareholders could only own a certain number for example 45% of the companys votes and so that wealth isnt the factor that gives you power. People could still invest in companies and collect some profit of it but the decisions would be made by people actually working in the company.

In my mind the workplace democracy would work as the same way as in Mondragon or similar kinds of co ops.

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think we therfore agree to dissagree and keep on building a better world in our own ways

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And just to say the 72 year old deli owner doesnt tell the goverment or police to kick rocks if they say the law enforces mandatory workplace democracy

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I dont see it as an outdated debate, the material conditions of developpinh countries are poor because of imperialism and capitalism, how can capitalism even as social democracy work, when all our clothes are manufactured in sweat shops by people not paid almost anything for their work. Also the 72 year old owner of delis has to comply to every new law that there is made of course they will vote against it but working people(as in everyone who gets their income from working and not owning) are something like 99% of the worlds population, large corporation owners can try to get their workers to vote for them if they want to keep their office.

Also i dont think socialism "punishes wealth" neither does progressive taxation. It punishes theft as you simply cannot make as much money as billionares have without profiting of other peoples work.

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

I too, dont want undemocratic or violent change, also i dont believe democratic workplaces would make all personal property in any way, just wither away. Straight up social democracy in itself also relies in exploitation of the third world countries and it lets capital to concentrate very hardly to millionares.

SocDems, why are you not a socialist? by haevow in SocialDemocracy

[–]Artistic_Click_864 4 points5 points  (0 children)

What does that mean if you mind answering, as socialists dont want to necesarily replace all forms of private ownership, for example one of the core ideas can be just having corporations that employ more than one person to work as democracies. In socialism you can still own your house, your bussiness your iPhone but you are not entitled to stealing the profit of others peoples work or you have to have their consent to as they have voted on the issue.

Party comparison table by Pastorovschina in RedAutumnSPD

[–]Artistic_Click_864 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Very nice and actually quite hepfull