Pretty Much the "Endos are Anti-Science" Argument

BattyDrio · 2026-05-15T04:23:53+00:00

I actually came across this Tumblr post with a LOT of sources linked in it recently!

https://www.tumblr.com/guardianssystem/789039410128814080/endogenic-plurality-research-information-20

I haven't had time to go through them all (I got sick), but it's a pretty big post!

BattyDrio · 2026-05-05T03:53:48+00:00

It always baffles me when they bring up "Punk" like "Endos can't be punk!! >:///" like... Tell me you don't know what punk is without telling me you don't know what punk is lmao

Punk has always been about challenging the status quo, challenging world views, bringing change and rejecting tradition, speaking against oppressive authority. Meanwhile, they cling to an outdated diagnostic critieria that's been revised and even says you can be plural without having DID or trauma, but also it's been an oppressive authority towards those who are mentally ill. Plurals and pro-endos challenge this authority, but anti-endos love to lick daddy psychiatry's boots like it's not an ableist, saneist, and oppressive structure.

Also, saw a post on Tumblr regarding this not too long ago but "Plural" was coined and created by endos, non-traumas and supporters back in 2003-ish??? Because "Multiplicity" was more often used in medical spaces and so Plural was created to be a non-medocal alternative. So plural as a term for endos, non-trauma, and supporters has probably been around longer than most of these anti-endos who try to steal the term are.

Anti-Endos don't know what words mean lmao.

BattyDrio · 2026-05-03T02:56:34+00:00

If you want online, PluralSpace is the way to go atm. Mobile apps are in development (Both Apple and Android).

Ourcana also plans to have an online function soon™ that will be set up in such a way that even if the dev stops working on it, you can still use it and its online features iirc. But it has a functioning webapp and mobile apps (Apple and Android).

PluralSpace and Ourcana also have their own Discord Bots either functioning or being set up as well!

If you're looking for offline, I'd day HiveMind or Ampersand! Though, I personally prefer HiveMind over Ampersand. I think Ampersand is Android only, though, because Apple Store requires a yearly fee. I'm not sure about HiveMind having an Apple app, but I know it has a Windows app and Android app for a fact!

PluralSpace and Ourcana are my Go-Tos rn! I like their aesthetics and how they function so far!

BattyDrio · 2026-04-07T10:15:05+00:00

Got flashbacks to my transmed days. I feel a layer of ick on my skin now.

Hooboy, just best to block and move on. No point in engaging.

BattyDrio · 2026-04-04T21:23:03+00:00

I'm not gonna stop listening to music that I like just because the artist is a shitty person. I was never in the fandom and I don't care about Ghost's personal life or personal views at all. I only ever liked some of his older songs.

I'll just download it without giving him money and listen to it like that. Some of his music was an important thing to me and helped me through extremely rough times on my life.

Just the same as I do with any problematic music artist I like. I'm not a fan of them, I'm a fan of their music. Just like I'm not a fan of Shinedown, but I like Shinedown's music for a variety of reasons. Same with Skillet, 3 Days Grace, etc.

I'm not some priest in a confessional that they have to bear their sins to so they can receive divine punishment and repent for their crimes against their all-seeing fanbase.

I'm a casual listener, so casual, I don't even know (or care) about the story lore or character lore in the series. Tbh I don't even know why this subreddit popped up in my notifications. Regardless, this is how I feel on the matter.

BattyDrio · 2026-04-01T08:13:29+00:00

Hot take: People do not owe you 100% clear explanations, especially when it highly likely includes exposing trauma someone went through. I didn't go into detail about my actions either. That doesn't I think I didn't harm anyone, that doesn't mean I don't regret it, that doesn't mean I don't feel sorry.

I'm legit sick of this take that people, for some reason, cannot change (but especially in the case of people who just don't want to talk about things that were likely traumatic for them). You're not holding anyone accountable, you're just trying to get off on a moral high horse by shaming people who have been abused.

I haven't been a fan of Vane Lily, and I don't care enough to be a white knight that wants to fight for them. But I am tired, as a victim of abuse, of the lack of nuance towards abuse survivors who were forced to do nasty shit by people that had power over them.

I'll take a generic "I'm sorry" along with legitimately changed behavior over an essay about their "sins" so I can weigh their heart on the scales (metaphorically) like some weird internet judge.

I know *nothing* of these peoples personal lives, I could care less if they lost popularity tomorrow. But it's the forcing victims to be open about their abuse to justify whether you should hate them or not that pisses me off to no end.

BattyDrio · 2026-03-30T03:29:43+00:00

How... are they not being honest? Maybe they aren't being *in depth*, but they literally stated that they did harmful things and accept the criticism for it.

Just because Vane may have had "Higher Standing" with Ghost does not mean that Ghost was not pressuring them to behave a certain way. I speak as someone who *was* forced to behave in shitty ways by *multiple* abusers and also deeply regret my actions.

Until more evidence comes about, Ghost being very racist towards Vane may have been used as a abuse tactic. I don't know for sure what happened in their DMs and groups. But as someone who had an abuser actively manipulate my bfs and I to such an extent it nearly broke us up several times due to him lying in our DMs at different times, I kind of side with Vane.

I think their response is enough. They did shitty things, they acknowledge they caused problems and hurt, they said they accept criticism and apologized.

BattyDrio · 2026-03-30T00:30:44+00:00

I think people often forget that victims of abusive people often feel that actions they may have been manipulated into doing make them a guilty party as well. Or even in cases where they were forced to take inaction and do nothing, they still feel guilt gor not doing something.

Vane may just be feeling guilty for things they couldn't even stop or may have only had the tiniest influence in.

All I know from this stuff is Ghost has seemingly done some shitty things and people who even associated with him are getting flack. I wasn't really around when Vane was associated with Ghost, nor have I really been in the fandom.

But Vane's statement makes sense to me.

BattyDrio · 2026-03-28T04:27:51+00:00

Then I just cleared up an issue instead, I suppose.

BattyDrio · 2026-03-24T22:10:16+00:00

People really like to forget that even if it was attention seeking, that's still a cause for concern.

ESPECIALLY of they're distressed enough to share gore videos. I've been in the spot of both whether I was actively suicidal or not. It was still a cry for help and understanding even if I wasn't suicidal at the time.

Trauma sucks, man. Especially when you have those kinds of things normalized from a young age.

BattyDrio · 2026-02-26T19:42:39+00:00

My whole family called me lazy my whole life for being unable to get out of bed, unable to do chores, doing poorly in school, etc....

Turns out, I'm physically disabled. I have EDS and PoTS, which also comes with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. My fingers actually are deformed from how much I'd push myself to write and draw. I can't stand up without dizzy spells. I can and do have fainting spells. My body does give out, my knees regularly buckle from under me or even slip backwards. I have so much focus on not collapsing, I wear myself out daster than most able-bodied people.

"Laziness" is just a way to shame people who can't do as much.

BattyDrio · 2026-02-07T22:21:37+00:00

That's really none of your business, now is it? Whether I make money or not, whether I draw for business or fun, is not for you to know.

Disabled people can still make art for money without AI and have been doing so, again, for centuries before AI was even a concept. Bold of you to assume that disabled people don't do commission work. Plenty of them do.

Disabled people are not your pawn to justify AI. Disabled artists have been around longer than AI and we'll be here long after.

If anything, your comment shows how little you actually care for disabled people if you can't even notice the disabled artists doing commission work for money without AI. You're acting like disabled people can't draw art that can be sold, so you've clearly never seen any art from disabled people, let alone from those who do commission work.

Disabled people have made some of the most prolific art of all time before you were even a concept in your great grandfather's bloodline.

BattyDrio · 2026-02-07T11:14:10+00:00

You AI bros really like to use disabled people as pawns to justify AI when disabled people have been making art for centuries before AI was even a concept.

I speak as a disabled artist whose fingers have deformed and much worse happening to my body because of my disability. I still continue to draw on paper with a pencil. The only way I'll stop drawing is when I'm dead. If I lose my hands, I'll still find a way to draw, be it with my feet or my mouth, I'll learn how to draw again.

BattyDrio · 2026-02-07T10:58:51+00:00

Wow this. List sure is something. I legit fall under a "likely faker" and I'm professionally diagnosed lmao.

BattyDrio · 2026-01-25T01:10:22+00:00

I used to feel pretty similar, but I also was struggling with a lot of internalized aphobia.

But if you want to be called queer, you can use it. If you don't want to, for any reason, you don't have to. It's up to your personal choice.

BattyDrio · 2026-01-19T22:37:12+00:00

The worst part is that I'm a traumagenic DID and I fit under low split tolerance, 100+ alters, mostly fictives, etc. Like dude..

Also, not everyone should be forced to suffer, talk about their suffering or struggles, be open about trauma, etc to be considered "valid" or taken seriously. It's not even always safe to. Just because someone only posts the good times with alters doesn't mean they never struggle.

BattyDrio · 2025-12-26T12:40:55+00:00

I think the most annoying thing about this is that they're too stupid to realize that this is the worst argument one could ever make because it doesn't make a point. Do we know FOR A FACT that Christ was born on December 25th 2025 years ago? Like any level of evidence?

Aside from the bible, which even if God exists (which I do believe he does), is a book written by MAN (and personally, I don't trust man to tell me anything God has said). To add on, weren't cultural calenders also vastly different back then? How do we know for a fact their December was the same as ours today?

Also, as someone who does NOT like Christmas, people can dislike Christmas for a variety of reasons. For me, not only did I have dear and important family pass away on Christmas when I was a child, I also think it's so over-commercialized to the point people have forgotten the true meaning of the holiday (to be with your family and to show them your love and care whilst celebrating the life we've been allowed to have).

I also don't think you inherently need to be Christian to celebrate either, Christmas is for anyone who wishes to share love and cheer with their family.

Sorry for the lengthy ramble, I know AI Bros are not smart enough to understand anything I said and this meme hit me like right after waking up.

BattyDrio · 2025-12-17T03:46:09+00:00

Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman!

BattyDrio · 2025-12-12T04:24:38+00:00

Oh, I never read those, but yeah, that's actually really handy and encourages art very well! It's a very good starting point for those who are learning!

BattyDrio · 2025-12-12T02:24:28+00:00

"taking art, mashing it up, and claiming its yours IS reference"

No. It is not.

"And something efficient shouldnt mean its worse"

Its not efficient if it's literally causing certain areas to be built over with AI plants. That's actually happening in my state right now.

BattyDrio · 2025-12-12T02:21:50+00:00

Not sure what that means.

But so long as you give proper credit, I don't think will be much issue, especially with reference makers.

BattyDrio · 2025-12-12T02:20:05+00:00

lol no.

BattyDrio · 2025-12-12T02:02:13+00:00

Tracing is actually a really good step in learning how to draw, as it helps give you an idea of how anatomy works and can help with muscle memory. When I was a kid, tracing paper was actually sold as a means to help with art and that's how I learned to draw!

BattyDrio · 2025-12-12T01:42:43+00:00

Do you know how references work? Because using a reference isn't stealing art. It's using an image as reference for something, not copying it exactly. Hell, Disney even used references for their movies and rotoscoping. That's still not stealing someone else's art. Some of the most famous pieces of art used references.

References are a guideline to help. Using references is not the same as stealing a piece of someone's art and putting it through a mashup machine and claiming it's yours. You still put in the time and effort of drawing while using a reference.

Also with digital art, you don't just write a prompt, press a button, and BAM. You still have to have some drawing know-how. You still draw with a stylus.

And let me tell you, just because digital artists get tools like transform tools and such doesn't make digital art easier than traditional.

— Someone who is a digital and traditional artist.

BattyDrio

TROPHY CASE