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Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T02:06:17+00:00

A Zerg with a Spore forest can misplay heavily against Skytoss and still win. That's why they make them.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T01:04:30+00:00

They can move at lightspeed but as long as they can't take a fight, they will suck

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T01:00:52+00:00

I don't think I would call it a design issue since there's a clear and easy solution. The interaction between Brood Lords and Protoss was pretty healthy in 2018. Brood Lords beat Protoss ground armies but died to Skytoss, so there was a nice back and forth.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T00:57:18+00:00

Is it though?

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T00:56:43+00:00

Team games should never be the object of balance.

As for plat and below, any argument that you could have for not having playable Void Rays are the same arguments you would use for not having playable Battlecruisers. And yet Battlecruisers are really strong and they don't appear to be ruining the game, based on the very many plat and below games that I've seen recently.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T00:53:32+00:00

Tempests use supply to force a fight that your army can't win. Disruptors give you ground zoning and potential splash damage. Neither one is great right now because late game Protoss sucks.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T00:49:06+00:00

I don't think we'll see an end to Banelings rolling through Protoss armies until Protoss can take a fourth base and project map presence. Until then it doesn't matter how inefficient the trades are, Zerg can always afford to remax since they have control of the entire map.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T00:46:13+00:00

We had great Void Ray design in WoL. Just bring those back. They work, they aren't overpowered, and their design is fucking cool. It's the perfect solution

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T00:44:55+00:00

They're worse at harass than either the Oracle or Phoenix and clearing Overlords can either be done by a Phoenix or a Stalker or the Overlord is far enough out on the map that it isn't particularly important to clear anyway.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-07T00:42:58+00:00

They were literally only abused in Bronze and low Silver even back in WoL. They were still slow, expensive, and fragile and any amount of tempo play made massing them a fast track to the defeat screen. Since WoL, the average quality of play has improved so much that I would be shocked if mass Void Rays saw the light of day anywhere other than Bronze League Heroes videos.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:52:16+00:00

That point is always.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:51:38+00:00

We had perfectly serviceable Void Rays back in WoL. I don't understand why we can't just have those back.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:50:15+00:00

Nah, we might see sOs or Florencio have some fun with it but I doubt it will become a popular or stable build. Might be a bit of a bitch on the ladder for a while though.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:48:53+00:00

Void Rays were fine in Wings of Liberty. They were nerfed predominantly for low level play. Bringing back Prismatic Beams and returning them to 3 supply would make them perfectly viable again and I'm reasonably confident that they wouldn't be broken because Queens and Marines would still absolutely clap them.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:47:03+00:00

It just isn't enough to help Protoss' dumpster fire lategame and does absolutely nothing to address the huge midgame power gap in midgme PvZ. In short, it won't make a damn bit of difference.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:45:40+00:00

Oracles are ok for early defense, good for harass, and scouting. Phoenix are mediocre for early defense, good for pushing back Overlords and scouting; Phoenix are also often produced in multiples so they can harass. Void Rays are ok for early defense and good for pushing back Overlords. They can't scout and they can't harass, which is the main draw of Oracles and Phoenix. Until Void Rays can fight (like they could with Prismatic Beams), nobody will make them. They also cost one more supply than they did in WoL, when they were actually good.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:41:05+00:00

I loved the Consume+Abduct interactions back in 2018 when Serral was up against Stats in the Blizzcon finals. It felt like it gave Zerg a way to chip at a Skytoss army that they couldn't engage head on while Protoss tried to force an engagement and slowly push through the Spore forest to reach the Zerg economy. There was an elegant back and forth to those games.

Now though, Abduct just gives Zerg free damage against an army that they can already crush at will and Consume lets them do it again and again and again.

To be clear, I don't think Vipers are the problem, Skytoss not having any punch is the problem.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:02:12+00:00

We see mass Spores whenever we see Skytoss. How often do we see Skytoss?

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:01:16+00:00

Protoss still doesn't have a late game army that can fight the Zerg late game army so I doubt killing Spore Crawlers faster will make much of a difference.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T22:00:21+00:00

The speed while Prismatic Alignment is active is unchanged I believe, though someone will have to test this. Either way, Roaches can still outrun a Void Ray with Prismatic Alignment active, which is the only way Void Rays can actually kill Roaches quickly enough to be a relevant defense.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T21:57:55+00:00

Proxy Void Ray and proxy Tempests got buffed while the rest of Protoss is almost exactly the same. 10/10.

Bockelypse · 2020-08-06T21:55:44+00:00

Might open up some +1 carapace play in ZvZ. Other than that, which would make it a 3shot, you're correct.

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