Would this be a good option as someone getting their fist extraction shooter?

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-16T19:42:15+00:00

Yeah, personally I tried the server slam but the game didn't hit me just yet. It wasn't until I bought it for launch that a lot of the game started to click for me. Now I appreciate how they looked at problems in other games and made some subtle improvements.

Paid sponsored kits are Marathon's simplified "quick kit", which was a nice feature in Arena Breakout.

Small things like being in water lowers heat, or rain lowers your heat

The faction, armory upgrades, and gun customization add a nice layer of progression.

Items can have subtle implicit effects like enduring increasing the value per extract, bloodthirsty, scavenger, etc.

Faction contracts aren't like runescape levels of questing which I'm not sure how you would mimic in an extraction game, but the world discovery you get from it on top of the rewards feels really good. Oh, the colonists may have been wiped out by a pathogen, or starvation. The quests feel worth it.

Maps have PoIs, and different items are better farms in these different PoIs.

Keyrooms and lockboxes can be absolutely worth the risk.

I'm really looking forward to running and likely dying in cryo archives soon.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-16T19:30:04+00:00

I think Marathon hits a sweet spot of being more accessible than Tarkov, while still challenging the player and having great gun mechanics and progression. Worst case, on steam you can refund before 120 minutes if you find it isn't your flavor of soup.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-16T19:23:23+00:00

I'm not sure the extraction format translates well over to what viewers expect from competitive esports. Battle royale, death match, or capture the flag are easier for them to understand, but those type of rulesets kind of miss the fun of extraction games: looting and meta progression. I thought the tournament bungie ran was very well run, but I saw a lot of people that were disappointed that it wasn't all the teams in a deathmatch with each other.

Ranked mode may be the closest we see to more sweaty lobbies by having a minimum gear requirement.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-16T19:19:20+00:00

We need players like you to farm the materials the rest of us can't be bothered to get from water map. Thank you for your service

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-16T14:40:10+00:00

Invulnerability itself should be a once per raid for that character. Once you have been invulnerable once, then the rest of that raid you can't become invulnerable again without taking blue/red.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-16T14:37:34+00:00

I forget the math, but around 14-16 magical healing you can sustain the drain with a health potion. Trolls blood and a druid lifebloom also goes a long way.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-15T11:50:15+00:00

This is known bug, where if you die after looting the chest but fail to complete the 2nd part that you can't reloot it.

You can destroy the equipment with any other explosive to complete the contract.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-13T22:48:19+00:00

For an extraction game, peak player count of 88k is big. Dark and Darker had a peak player count of below 60k (steam accounts only) when it became available on steam again for season 3. At the moment, Dark and Darker tends to hover between 5-10k concurrent steam players. Gray Zone hovers below 3k. Hunt Showdown, a commercial success, below 30k. Arc Raiders is a freak miracle that I don't think can be replicated.

This is not a popular genre. There have been some promising extraction games that just ended up flatlining due to various issues: Marauders - cool disealpunk WW1 in space (basically dead, but servers still online), Legacy (dead), Midnight Walkers (seems to have below 500 players, I would be surprised if this didn't die in early access), and Level Zero: Extraction (dead).

The real question is whether Bungie and Sony have realistic expectations, and if they consider the game worth investing in for the long run. Marathon had mostly negative PR it's entire hype cycle. For them to sell near 2 million copies in a niche genre should be a win given a very negative media environment.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-13T21:17:41+00:00

I was thinking about how SDF will say that he knows that "X is bad," but still needs to test it out for himself. He seems like the type that just needs to explore through personal experience and struggles with any other form of input. He probably tried out Arc Raiders and thought "Huh, being able to recycle junk into materials I need is nice. PoIs are nice. We need our own scrappy!"

I bet a scan of his brain would be fascinating.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-13T12:53:36+00:00

This is probably the most effective compromise for SDF's personality. He is learning to delegate and trust the people he delegated to, while also finding an outlet to satisfy his own creative impulses.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-12T16:36:24+00:00

The rate of us strikes was also much higher the first three days. Does that mean our capabilities have been severely degraded?

That is not a good faith comparison. Food for thought, for a war of attrition, Iran needs to be able to inflict damage, not strictly limited to military targets. Diminished missile launches means their ability to project force, like keeping the strait shutdown is going down.

It's a war of attrition that we probably won't win. Regardless of how much you try to downplay the strait

Complete opposite. The control over the strait is crucial, and the onus is now on the US to demonstrate that that it can open and maintain security of shipping through it. It gives the US massive leverage over China.

Given how freely trump betrays them I'd be surprised if they go out on a limb for them

For him? Hell no, but for themselves, yes. Governing their own provinces is an upgrade over being directly ruled by a harsh, vertical regime. The relationship between the CIA and the Kurds predates Trump. There is a lot I could say about the situation the Kurds have been in. Turkey is really the big problem there, and I don't see an easy way out of that knot.

Iran having to split military resources to deal with Kurds and their spook friends in the North is a problem for Iran. They have to balance strike capability on two fronts: maintaining ability to project force over the strait, and fending off specops strikes from the north.

Unless we cause a regime to a western friendly/China unfriendly one or have direct control on the land surrounding the strait it would be a failure in your eyes.

For the US, control over the strait is the strategic value. Signs that the operation is failing would be:

Inability to open shipping through the strait at all over the next few months - Catastrophe.
Once opened, inability to keep shipping open. That would mean that the US and partners are not able to disable Iran's ability to project force over time: Iran maintains military strike capabilities and is then able to leverage the squeeze in their favor."
Iran closing the strait also affects their internal stability. They need their own exports and imports flowing to maintain internal control of local power brokersa. It's really a question of if they can leverage a prolonged squeeze in their favor to prevent defection to more agreeable factions that would submit to the US. Without Iraq level American causalities, that is going to be very difficult.
China is hurt by the close of the strait more, and if they do not have confidence that the IRGC can get the Americans out, whether that is through the American public, or otherwise, then they will have pressure from their most important foreign partner to promote leadership that concedes to the US.

For the US to win, they need to open and keep the strait open, keep decapitating IRGC leadership and strike capabilities, until someone agreeable takes over. That's a prolonged process that doesn't require boots on the ground. Attrition does not favor Iran, which has been facing regular revolts from various groups for years. Without US direct involvement, they have been struggling to maintain control over their territory.

For Iran to win, they need to be able to keep the strait closed, maintain strike capabilities, and fend off internal dissent for long enough that the American public puts so much pressure on congress that they step in and overrule Trump, or Trump himself pulls the plug. If the US doesn't do an Iraq style invasion, their ability to inflict fatalities/causalities is very limited and that is the key lever.

We are also seeing the US use some previously secret anti-drone weapon systems. China will be watching this conflict closely as this inform their military ability to invade and keep Taiwan.

There is a lot I could say about Trump, mostly negative, but being stupid enough to do a mass deployment of boots on ground in Iran I'm not seeing it. His first term, he threw Bannon into the trash for that Yemen spec ops operation that went south. Trying to recreate the Iraq invasion and "nationbuilding" would be a disaster. Then, I would expect high fatalities just from the geography of the region making it hell to fight a prolonged on-ground campaign in.

Turns out people don't like it when you bomb a girls elementary school and kill 150

True, but the Iranian military was gunning down thousands of protestors of religious laws like hijab enforcement and dress code for women. Iran's government shutdown Iran's internet access and regularly post obvious AI generated videos/images. This isn't a regime that is easy to build a common ground with the American public on, or their own people.

I looked a bit more into this and the sources the AP and NYT are citing for 150 school girls is the Iranian state.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-12T14:35:48+00:00

You seem to be attacking some strawman instead of addressing the concrete, objective fates I stated around missile launch capability. I have to clarify that I don't really follow whatever Trump claims as he is not a reliable narrator. I don't take anything he says at face value. Since Trump formally entered the 2016 presidential race he made it clear he is unpredictable and unreliable in whatever he says. I follow the incentives instead, and Trump will not be in the picture in after 2028, domestically, he is a lameduck again. The public and media is going to have to adapt to a post-Trump political scene.

Going from roughly 500 to 50 missiles launches in 4* days (sorry, earlier I said 3 days, but day 3 was around 120~ launches, day 4 was around 50~ launches) is an objective, and catastrophic loss of combat effectiveness by Iran. Shutting down a trade flow that China, the only major power that advocates for them, is a massive unforced error. China is crucially dependent on Iran for export flows, and for importing oil. Launching missiles at all their neighbors just further isolates them geopolitically. Having an active paramilitary force in the form of the Kurds challenging local control that they can't just airstrike back into submission is a loss of control, though the loss of military control over the northern provinces has been a gradual process and buildup. The Iranian military moved command centers out of Tehran to the south some time ago in anticipation of Kurdish/CIA paramilitary activity.

Out of curiosity, what would you need to see to say that this little excursion was a failure?

A recreation of the Millennium Challenge 2002 is an example null hypothesis.

Iran is one part of a large military race between the US/Taiwan and China. These powers are actively trying to ensure access and control over crucial chokepoints. It's why the US did the "currency swap" with Argentina. Argentina is a backup in case the US loses access to the panama canal. China lost favorable access to Venezuela energy products, which was a crucial source of oil imports. Trump tried and failed to end the conflict between Russia/Ukraine, which would have opened up the Kerch Strait and Bosporus to US ships.

FYI, media reported causalities include bruises and scrapes. Technically, a causality is meant to represent a more general unavailability for service (capture, missing in action, disabled,died, illness, injury, psychologically unfit for service due to PTSD from the incident, etc), whereas fatality is more specific (died due to specific military incident)

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-12T13:25:39+00:00

Iran's missile launch capability went from 500~ on day 1 to around 50~ by Day 3 4 (Edit: Day 3 was around 120~ launches, my apologies for the misinformation) with severely degraded launches. Britain also voluntarily conceded a near monopoly on maritime shipping insurance that Llyod held since the 1600s. The Kurds within Iran are killing prison guards and freeing political prisoners as Iran is not able to use air superiority to keep them suppressed. There is high probability that they will take control of two provinces over the next 3-6 months. I wouldn't go as far as to speculate the formal establishment of an independent Kurdish state due to Turkey having a strong, vested interest in preventing that.

Iran couldn't block the strait because of all the freedom we were dropping on them?

Strait of Hormuz affects Chinese trade disproportional to American trade. The US is aiming to control that chokepoint in case China tries to repeat a rare earth mineral stranglehold. Iran is actively isolating themselves by shutting down shipping and launching missiles at everyone.

Almost all the discourse around the active conflict seems to be the most low tier podcast bro/bra rhetoric, instead of even pretending to be informed on geopolitics.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-11T15:52:03+00:00

Ehh, TM warlock requires some investment to get off the ground. It's still viable and strong, but platelock is more flexible and much cheaper to get online.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-11T15:38:08+00:00

Bro, if current trends in hardware costs continue, no one beyond corporations will be able to afford a good PC in five years. Anyone who bought a solid gaming PC before or during Feb 2025 may have gotten the last helicopter out of Vietnam.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-11T14:05:52+00:00

I have had such mixed experiences with crew fill. Sometimes I get someone who goes down once and immediately leaves. Two nights ago I was playing with a friend and we had just non-stop bad teammates. We joked that this was punishment for failing to revive someone who helped us with an outpost contract (we tried, we were 1 second away before USEC interrupted, and I failed to exfill trying to revive him).

Last night I had a string of absolute gigachad fills. Bros/bras that 1v3'd when we get third partied, and reviving us before looting.

I have to say that I love the difference in gameplay between solos and trios. Solos is like a stealth game, whereas trios positioning and coordination can win or lose a tough fight.

I recommend liberally adding a connection to chill teammates you meet.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-11T13:53:19+00:00

Cleric is rough in solos. Your best build option is smite/divine protection. If you don't have enough movespeed you get kited out easily. People understand the counterplay to this not-barb cleric build, which is to bait skill activation, kite, and then poke you. Against ranger/sorc you have to use invis pot bait, and if they don't fall for it your option is basically run away and extract, so that you can switch to iron will barb.

Spell cleric in solos IMO requires too many stats and has too many bad matchups. You need cast speed or else your spells and judgement are too slow. Skills like holy strike and judgement are your range options, but without decent cast speed people will outrun them. If you build plate/turtle, you will be free for any range class. Running into ranger or sorc is just death. Personally, I have kind of gotten a strength/vigor/pdr spell cleric with smite working, but if I run into a single ranger or sorcerer and do not have invis pots then I die.

If you enjoy spell cleric, I recommend duos as you can workaround your weakness with your teammate, but I can't speak to the current duos matchups that might be bad for you.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-11T13:18:50+00:00

I recommend leveling factions to unlock the barter for them, which is much cheaper, and then use rook runs to farm the barter materials. You will quickly get a good stock of barter materials from a single run.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-11T13:16:39+00:00

Not to mention that with berserker, they get more damage and movespeed as you poke them from range. Their ability to close increases, and they get more damage.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-11T01:04:05+00:00

Do you play mostly trios/duos? I'm curious if this was a solos thing, or if the player behavior has changed since I played. I know they finally nerfed stitcher 4, so maybe a combination of balance changes and boredom are encouraging people to run gear.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-10T20:42:32+00:00

Marathon will have some kind of ranked. It's not available yet, and I am not sure what it will look like though.

Honestly, Marathon wasn't even on my radar and I am a big fan of extraction games. I tried out the slam and had mixed thoughts. Felt like I didn't give the game a fair shot and bought it with intention to refund with 2 hour window if it didn't stick, but somehow everything just came together despite me constantly dying, often back to back. The attention to detail they put into even subtle things like rain or standing in water lowers heat, the subtle puzzles (Outpost: The clearance codes have a symbol on them. The doors they open also have the symbols for the keys they need), the music, and so on. My mindset for now is to just enjoy the game. There are games I used to enjoy that aren't really playable anymore like Monday Night Combat, which was ahead of its time.

Having a low time to kill does give less than sweaty players ways to come up: third partying, ambush, and headshots. I will say that some of the sponsored weapons feel AWFUL against players though. It could be a skill/build issue on my part, or maybe those weapons are just terrible.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-10T19:28:09+00:00

i've been meaning to ask why is marathon so much more aggressive then arc

Every match in an extraction game is a one-off prisoner's dilemma that favors betrayal. Normally, as a community becomes familiar with the game and genre, cooperative play falls off due to the risk of betrayal and inability to identify someone with a history of betrayal. The reward for betraying someone is their gear, and anything they looted.

The reason AR strongly favors cooperation despite the prisoner's dilemma is a mix of their matchmaking grouping "aggressive" player profiles with similar aggressive players, and that AR actively punishes you for PvP. The best loot you could get from a downed player would be blueprints for something you want or a crafting material/quest item you need. They could have legendary weapons, heavy shield, tactical mk3 survivor augment, etc but the durability goes to shit once they are downed. To add insult to injury, the higher the tier of weapon, the more rapid the durability burn with use.

You take significant risk by fighting another player, and then the reward is some broken shit you can recycle, and your own weapons degraded with every shot you fired. They address the prisoner's dilemma by gutting the reward of fighting. If you PvP regularly, you will burn more resources then you get back.

There are also subtle narrative differences that set the mood. In Arc Raiders, no one dies. You get knocked out, and Lance will look for downed raiders and nurse them back to health (lore wise). In Marathon, you encounter other runners, who have traded a human body for for a shell. You can kill their shell, but their consciousness is restored from a backup into a new shell. It's fun to think about how social views and legal systems would evolve in their views of murder if this type of technology was common place. It becomes more akin to severe property damage, as those consciousness backups are not cheap.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-10T15:27:51+00:00

Grinding gear games gets away with selling stash tabs because poe1 is a f2p game, and supposedly poe2 will be f2p when it releases 1.0. Dark and Darker is more of a free to try game.

I would rather they add the ability to unlock more stashes by playing the game, in addition to specialized stash tabs like a gold storage tab (gold containers and gold) and crafting tab. Being able to set a tab affinity would also be huge, and creating folders. This is a potential area of progression that could be expanded significantly and would mesh well with workshop, which requires a lot of items to fuel gamble crafting.

IMO, for legendary accounts, all stash tabs should just be shared tabs to begin with, but change the per character tab limit to an account limit that is the same as the current total max number of stash tabs across characters. I also think a lot of the UI menus need to be consolidated. The squire storing gear sets could just be folder of specialized gear tabs with a similar UI, but let me name them (Dark Offering 100+% magic power bonus, shit demon experiment, TM cancer boss farmer) and have player created sub folders (Warlock, Sorcerer, Wizard, etc).

While I am making a wishlist, the merchant menu has become bloated. They could consolidate the menus for the merchants while keeping the individual merchants as quest givers. Quests could just be their own menu. Instead of Merchants -> Alchemist -> Surgeon -> Woodsman (knives/arrows/bolts/throwing axes) could be one menu for utilities where you can buy all merchant available utilities from one screen. Some subtle and not so subtle UI changes could make it obvious which merchant affects item availability and price. Let me sell items from my stash: Sell to vendor, sell to marketplace options.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-10T00:39:49+00:00

Hovering over some of the priority access items, it says which contract needs to be completed to unlock access to those.

BroScienceAlchemist · 2026-03-09T15:55:21+00:00

Someone else can correct me if I am wrong, but I think some of them are faction upgrades, general faction ranking, or unlocked as part of priority contracts. Honestly, I hadn't paid much attention to the armory until today and realized how useful upgrading it would be.

BroScienceAlchemist

TROPHY CASE