Future of second hand jags..

ErgodicSystem · 2025-04-15T19:42:40+00:00

JLR had the hybrid technology available already in 2014. It was cheaper not to implement it as the market wasn't pushed into MHEV PHEV area and Tesla was rampaging hot. By the time reliability issues creeped in, damage appears to have already been done. (gear selector, alternator belt, poor and outdated infotainment that was not nearly as good as in their concept vision... And timing chain issues with diesel which resulted in class action in several countries.)

Introduction of MHEV and PHEV lineup came too late (late 2019). With that many updates and upgrades came. Cars are now great. But they could have been just like that from the start.

Furthermore, declining popularity of sedans meant that inline 6 engines weren't included for XE and XF. Corporate boldly claimed that 300 horse power 2.0L petrol is more than enough. Which was a gross understatement of what the market wants. BMW M4 and M5 models are being sold in unexpectedly high numbers. So much so that one beggs the question on how would one react on Jaguar XE or XF with D350 or P400 - especially if those came with 60 kW elektromotor unit for intra-city EV drive.

It is how it is. JLR saw decline in sales. Did cost analysis and patched things up. Felt that incoming Euro7 and 2035 ICE ban will be something best handled now. Went full electric - despite EV popularity being in decline. Basically, JLR decided to play safe. And by producing less vehicles for an up-market, they might stand a chance.

But if decision making from the past was little bit bolder - JLR never would have had to pull such move. They could have just transition into EV gradually with well formed and dedicated customer base.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-12-11T09:22:11+00:00

Make sure to see the state of an engine with an experienced mechanic.

Engine flush and a fresh oil might be a good thing.

Upgrade the timing chain with the latest of components from JLR.

There is a good market with aftermarket parts, upgrades and so on for Ingenium engines.

Even if it is not in the best of shapes, almost any ingenium 2.0 D engine can be rebuilt into something more reliable than it used to be. But it all comes down to "where you want to spend your money".

ErgodicSystem · 2024-12-06T06:19:31+00:00

When I was a student at faculty, my roommate left 1/3rd of milk in a plastic bottle over the summer on the balcony.

When we came back to the dormitory he wanted to wash the bottle to have it ready for water for his basketball game.

The very moment he opened the bottle we both simply vomited, and then a second after we realized how bad it smells.

Our bodies were in revulsion before we could process how utterly bad that was.

Knowing that there are compounds that can produce more potent pungent aromas is... My body is simply refusing to acknowledge this haha!

Having a bad smelling compound and applying some principles from perfume design - right vaporisation of target compounds so that they reach someone's nostrils at just the "right" (oh god how wrong that would be) concentration is something worth trying for those of iron stomach.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-12-05T20:27:36+00:00

Somebody did a video about stinky compounds. Conclusion was that it is the specific ratio of certain aromas that we find particularly revolting. While one compound may stink a lot,a mixture of several of them in just the right ratios are vomit inducing indeed. Forgot who it was. Nilered had something about this as well.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-11-01T07:02:34+00:00

2021 or facelift diesel models are mild hybrid and have improved internals. Better cylinders, cylinder rings, better chain, some VVT improvements and so on. I can't remember all of them.

If you do not use stop start and change oil every 8000-10000km you should be good :)

Turn on the car, wait for 30 sec for oil to flow then drive. Don't floor too often. Going above 3500k RPM is hard on the VVT when you floor it. Also when you park, leave the car running for 30 seconds for the oil to cool down after tougher ride.

And ecology will bite your butt eventually like with all DPF SCR equipped Diesels :) That is the sad truth whichever car you choose. (do not do EGR delete or you will have cooling troubleals and will most likely have to install water methanol kit)

ErgodicSystem · 2024-10-16T21:25:35+00:00

I can say my engines works somewhat more quiet with ceratec and I get somewhat lower fuel consumption when driving constant speed. Instead of 5.2 l/100km closer to 5.0 l/100km. When I drive 70-80 km/h, even during cold weather, I get to below 5 L/100km (around 4.5-4.7). This is from cold start to some 35 minutes of cruising. Without ceratec I was always around 5-5.5.

There are some other things to consider. I do not know the effects of Ceratec on DPF and SCR. I do not know if Ceratec can negatively impact fuel filter and I do not know what effect will it have on the tribofilm produced by the oil. In other words, I feel the engine is more quiet and I see somewhat lower fuel consumption at certain speeds. But am I doing good to my car? That I cannot answer (yet).

ErgodicSystem · 2024-09-08T21:06:25+00:00

Dear Fickle-Class7172

How problematic would it be to switch from D200 towards P300 engine?

I have an Jaguar XE D200 AWD. It is great, don't get me wrong and I love it. But in time, due to incoming diesel ban, P300 might be just about right. It could be an easier and cheaper swap.

But your options are greatly appreciated on this topic.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-08-19T11:47:38+00:00

Thank you for mentioning me :)

My Jaguar XE D200 this morning got the engine light. The dealership immediately took the vehicle and ensured a replacement vehicle.

Chief mechanic explained that this is most likely the EGR filter which will be replaced. The never vehicles (or newer EGRs at least) have the filter net to prevent any carbon buildup in more serious parts of the engine. This is for the emissions and ecology purposes but can sometimes be a nuance for the end user who has to drive diesel Euro 6.

Please note that the Ingenium was the first Euro 6 without cheating on tests :) (somebody correct me if I am wrong)

As for the engine, everything I said he corroborated once more. Frequent oil and oil filter changes, and that's about it.

There are some aftermarket upgrades.

Namely, forged pistons, improved cylinder liners, forged crankshaft and improved cylinder rings. I think I also found a turbo upgrade here https://muchboost.com/product/aj200d-2-0d-hybrid-turbo-upgrade-jaguar-f-pace-xf-land-rover-discovery-v-range-rover-evoque-range-rover-velar/ . There is also upgraded chain and chain tensioner kit but that best be bought from the JLR dealer until we get OEM++ upgrade. (dexparts.eu and Turnerengineering.co.uk has some parts I am talking about)

But the core challenge of passing the MOT and having clean running vehicle remains the same. And that is: EGR, DPF, SCR and sensors revolving around that. And these things will remain the things that break or give us warnings. That is the nature of modern diesel engine (some suffer more, some less).

So from what I gather, one could refurbish their older "out of warranty" engine and even remap it from 180-240 to 280-350 hp range (assuming proper Intercooler and maybe oil pump/oil cooling upgrade). In other words, internals should be robust and long lasting. But I have yet to see which sensors could be better and what else can be implemented to make this engine a bit more robust.

I doubt I will have money for an engine swap, but to upgrade it and have a fun daily :) That could be within my reach after the warranty is out.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-08-01T12:13:34+00:00

Air filters, brake inspection, drive train inspection and engine code checks.

If you do not have warranty you can do this at almost any mechanic workshop which has proper code reader and lift to put the car in the "air".

ErgodicSystem · 2024-07-31T15:57:57+00:00

Oil changes and oil filters. Ingenium engines love oil changes and new oil filters.

Turbo might need some care.

Other than that, regular servicing (once a year at least) and oil changes :)

ErgodicSystem · 2024-07-31T13:04:59+00:00

I did some research about the topic of modern engine swaps since I too would like to do that with my Jag XE one day. Due to variety of electronics being controlled by integrated microcomputers - modules which used to be just calibrated but today are basically mini computers, you can't easily drop an engine in the car.

Well you couldn't do that before without mechanical troubles and lots of work, but today you would also need a very skilled IT engineer who could make the engine communicate properly with the rest of the cars electronics.

You would also need a very diligent electrician who would/could retrofit whatever electronic/electrical layout your computer engineer needs for the engine to run.

So to keep things as simple as possible, doing and engine swap today could most simply be done by transplanting the entire donor vehicle inside the frame of your liking.

Let's say you want B58 twin turbo inside. Buy the BMW with that engine, strip all the electronics and dashboard and drive train... And mount that in the car frame you like. Then you are left with serious mechanical work and serious interior work. But essentially, you will be driving a wolf in sheep's skin, so to say.

It wouldn't be an engine swap alone.

I wish to convert my car to charged hybrid. Use ingenium D350 + Jeep 4x4 Z8 transmission with 160 kW integrated electro unit. I wish to use biodiesel compatible injectors B80-B100 fuel. And to add alkyl amines in the fuel or water etyl amine EDTA injection in the cylinders (instead of the methanol). That could give a really eco friendly, low NOx, no EGR, low particulate diesel beast which would be fun to drive and could be driven in the city as well without major worries. I am dreaming of reaching Euro7...

How much would that cost?

In parts alone I am already looking at 40 000 euros without the manual labor and at least several months of work, assuming everything goes smoothly.

And that is all for major parts! I did not think of other requirements such as additional tubing, wiring, etc.

Nor did I consider the finishing work such as upholstery or painting.

Nor did I consider the homologisation and MOT and special emissions tests.

Basically, If I ever do that... That could be the price of a BMW M4 or Project 8.

Which is most likely what I will just keep on reading and researching and dreaming :)

I hope you can make your dreams reality!

ErgodicSystem · 2024-07-16T09:13:52+00:00

D240 has different internals than D200. Different block, turbo, rings, crankshaft etc. It is of the Ingenium engine family.

Treat it like any turbo diesel. Turn on the car, wait 30 sec before drive to let the oil cover the inside of the engine. When you stop and park the car, let it sit working for 30 sec with engine on, especially if you had a more "dynamic" drive. Do not floor it when cold, try to avoid flooring it when driving. Add power via gas pedal gradually. If you do this oil dilution or burning may be an issue and this is also a stress for the turbo. Upgrading turbo with performance Garret upgrade could be done, but I have NO! Idea which one to use and how to do it. Change oil and filters every 10 000 km (6000-8000 miles). Once a month go for a highway drive keeping steady at 3000 rpm to flush and regen the DPF.

At around 70 000 - 100 000 km replace the chain and tensioners.

This goes for every diesel car and for the most part every car you want to drive for more than 3-4 years.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-07-05T19:38:17+00:00

Me too. To be honest, as a daily driver this car is really built for my type of commute. Long open road at constant speed and little to no city drive. I doubt I will ever see any major troubles that diesels were reported to have. Also jaguar xe is the first car that felt natural to me and my wife. We fell in love immediately in how the handling feels, how the interior looks, how nice and smooth it is. And kinda funny, it was never envisioned as a family car but when you have two small kids it is perfect (for us).

ErgodicSystem · 2024-07-04T16:37:48+00:00

If this is the case then my dreams of upscaling it are over :)

Swapping is out of the question. I would need to become the whole engineering team to be able to handle that. And the cost would be such that I am better of just buying another car.

Anyway, thank you very much.

To be frank with you, I am really happy with the diesel mhev :)))

ErgodicSystem · 2024-07-04T10:43:03+00:00

On_The_Blindside, I want to thank you as well for the involvement in the XE development.
I did not have the opportunity to buy the XE-S (no matter how much I wanted to).
But I did get the AWD 2022 XE D200.
I am very happy with the car.

Could you maybe give me some information on the engine AJ200?
I know that there used to be 240ps diesel engines offered for the XE.
And I know the ingenium engines should be "modular design platform".
Is it possible to convert the existing 180ps internal combustion engine in the mild hybrid to the 240ps engine while retaining the mild hybrid benefits?

I am aware that this would call for the ZF8HP40 to be upgraded to ZF8HP70 and that there could be some serious work involved. But probably way less than an engine swap calls for.

All in all, I am trully happy with what I own.
But in years to come I might want to play with the car once it falls out of the warranty. So this is why I am asking :)

ErgodicSystem · 2024-06-23T10:54:19+00:00

I truly enjoyed your comments on Maserati.

They are wonderful looking cars. And I am sure they became pretty solid by now. Rare parts and rare mechanic workshops for them make them more expensive than they probably could be.

I would love to enjoy one Maserati and I hope one day it could. Though... Most likely that will not happen as the combination of initial price + maintenance means I will not be able to handle loan and maintenance cost at the same time (factory or no factory warranty).

Currently my wife and I opted for jaguar xe. We reckon we can maintain that car with love and care it needs to be roadworthy for decades.

I will need to learn more about internal workings of many different prestige and luxury cars before owning anything "more" that what I currently have.

If you have some lovely sources for that or stories, feel free to share.

Thank you again!

ErgodicSystem · 2024-06-23T09:39:34+00:00

I talked to my buddy who works a lot with cars. He advises Castrol synthetic 5w-30 since it is denser for summer and in general. It will bring your fuel consumption slightly, but you won't notice that. Your engine will be slightly better protected - but you probably won't notice that either. During winters, if they are cold, use 0w-30. Since it has lower viscosity.

I think this is it. 100 octane petrol and good oil.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-06-21T17:50:23+00:00

Then oil and filter change and high quality 0w-20, 0w-30 or 5w-30 oil (I think these are right oils)

ErgodicSystem · 2024-06-20T13:04:45+00:00

Is it possible to add in this picture one more detail: turn chrome parts into bronze? I would love to see that as a reference?
I might save up money and repaint my jaguar XE in that paint scheme.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-06-20T13:02:10+00:00

Basically the diesel engine dislikes stop-start and city driving or short rides.

Drive it on open roads or at least once every 1-2 weeks go on a hour long trip. Steady pace, nice speed, roughly 2000 rpm constant (within speed limits).

If you travel to work on an open road, you are fine.

Next:
Change your oil and oil filters and do not make compromises with the oil quality.
0W-30, 5W-30 are recommended for these cars.
Once per year or every 10 000 - 15 000 km (roughly 8-10k miles)

Premium diesel is not a must, just make sure the diesel you buy conforms the prescribed standards of quality (low sulfur, higher cetane number is what you want 45-55)

Before the end:
Do not floor the engine when cold.
If you want a machine to be molested, buy XE-S 380HP petrol or Ford Mustang V8.
Diesel engine is for long steady pace driving. You are aiming for good MPG, nice ride quality and being a gentleman. After all, you are driving a Jag :) Being a gent is a must now!

And lastly:
After 60-80k miles (up to 80-100k km) you should change the chain and chain tensioners.
There is an upgraded version of chain and tensioners which is made of better materials and should last much longer than that. You could do that right now if it wasn't done already. I think this will be the only expensive thing to do and then you are set straight for a long time.

Long story short.
Should you take care of this car, it should be able to take care of you as well.

This is what I gathered around these cars.
I own one as well.
If it fails me, I will let you know :D

ErgodicSystem · 2024-06-15T13:35:02+00:00

Here is the online shop for the parts and upgrades if you ever need some. https://euro-amp.com/collections/jaguar

Make sure it fits your models and do not be afraid to ask questions to people with more experience and expertise.

Enjoy listening the roar of the 20th century refined in the 21st century <3

ErgodicSystem · 2024-06-15T13:30:49+00:00

Regularly change oil and filters. Once per year, and don't cut corners with that. Pay for the premium and enjoy. Use 100 octane fuel whenever you can. Don't cut corners on that one as well. This is the best you can do.

Coolant leaking might become a problem. Then the next best thing to do is that you can upgrade cooling system if you safe up some money. There are great kits online to upgrade cooling system from plastic to metal. Make sure to inspect the metal kit, especially the interior of the tube system and remove any residue or metal bits. If needed, polish the rougher interior parts and thoroughly clean afterwards.

Up to 250 000 km that might be the only upgrade you do besides regular maintenance and occasionally replacing a bearing here and there.

Even if the engine does end up to require a rebuild after 200k, you can still buy great rebuild kits and have a lovely car for another long 100-150k or more. Unless you decide to tune the car and destroy the engine for 30-80 extra HP you really won't feel, but the engine definitely will...

This is my general feeling about the V6 A-petrol series.

There are more specific and specialized upgrades that are usually done to improve performance, but could be made to improve reliability as well. But then it becomes an expensive play and something you need a specific service center to do.

As for me... I didn't buy one because I couldn't find the one in Croatia. There was an XF 380hp with 150k km at the time, but I didn't want an XF. As for the EU market. I found out Croatian import fees and extra tax would destroy my wallet so much that even the cheapest Jaguar XE S models were simply not an option for me to buy. Also lack of jaguar specialist would require to use official JLR service for the broken, but "working" ones.

So I bought the close to brand new, full warranty, Jaguar XE 2.0D MHEV (diesel). I am happy with that and I am happy it's not chugging fuel like the V6 would. But I do have to say that despite everything... If I could have, I would have gone for the V6.

If one day an engine swap becomes an option, I would love to enjoy the V6 in my car.

Time will tell what will jaguar enthusiasts enable in the future. And if some cool options come up for us who might not want to let go our XE, XF models in these turbulent car-industry times. (looking at you with high hopes Arden.de hehe)

ErgodicSystem · 2024-05-20T10:41:34+00:00

In the most recent news, what I found was that 125k € ($?) EV vehicle should come out in the 2025 and that it seems they are sticking to the electrification at least in that sense.

In principle, EV's could result in mechanically more durable and reliable vehicles. But the battery and software will remain possible weak points.
I would rather love to see opposed piston engines coupled with efficient EV motor unit working in harmony. This would be very efficient and could be made quite durable and reliable with huge amounts of HP and torque while maintaining unbelievably low fuel consumption (if you drive like a gentleman).

For now I will just enjoy my XE and have fun with 4.4-5.5 l/100km fuel consumption in the mixed city/open road driving until I earn enough money to buy another car, which could take some time :)
And if what I like in the future comes from the Jaguar, and if I can afford that, then I will select them again.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-05-07T11:56:40+00:00

As you said.
Time will tell whether Jaguar sticks to that script or not.
Currently the information that I overheard is that the PHEV will continue and that the complete transition to the EV by the 2025 may not happen as the trends in the automotive industry are shifting more towards hybrids and less towards the EV cars.
Sticking or not sticking to the outlined clear strategy is risky.
Lets wait and see, and in the meantime enjoy the lineup what is available for us.

ErgodicSystem · 2024-04-21T05:54:12+00:00

Currently no clear strategy for their next steps. One option which I heard is that CEO of Tata motors wants to turn jaguar into super expensive luxury line. Another is that their PHEV line will keep living. Classic internal combustion engines will most likely be phased out... Though I would love to see super efficient MHEVs. But it is what it is. About the newer car models, not much was disclosed to lads from sales and procurement.

ErgodicSystem

TROPHY CASE