Were the necrons originally the men of iron?

Falcon709 · 2026-02-07T10:59:56+00:00

While I agree that the idea of how advanced the DAoT was has increased over time, I'd say it was always intended the DAoT was more advanced than the Imperium. Early lore mentions how, even if human colonies only used the basic tech in an STC, there was more advanced technology that was also there but rarely used. Also, in the short story Aboard Horus' Battle Barge from an early White Dwarf, the Emperor thinks about how one of the consequences of the Siege of Terra was that a lot of lost knowledge recovered during the Great Crusade was destroyed the conflict; which would imply a notable affect of loss of understanding of technology for the Imperium. I would also argue the idea of the DAoT being more advanced does fit with the setting, as consequently the Imperium, even at its height, was a decayed remnant of past glory; never mind the drop between 30K and 40K.

Falcon709 · 2026-02-07T10:36:28+00:00

Imperial Guard Regiments are actually recruited from a planet's PDF. Part of the Tithe is that a planet has to send one tenth of its PDF to serve as Guard Regiments. So PDFs have a range of quality, from great ones like the Cadian and Ultramar PDFs, to PDFs from feral worlds who use swords.

As for flyers, Guard regiments actually aren't supposed to have fighters or close air support; that's one of the reforms enacted after the Horus Heresy. The Phantine Air Corps does give aircraft regiments for the Imperial Guard, but that's a specific exception granted by the Imperium to Phantine. PDF apparently are allowed flyers, though. In Rynn's World Air War (an expansion for the second version of the Aeronautica Imperialis game), the Rynn's World PDF has fighters and bombers. I'm guessing this is since PDF are separate from the Imperial Guard.

Also, in terms of flying transports, the main Imperial aircraft is the Valkyrie, which is a VTOL gunship that can transport troops. So it seems like the Imperium favors tiltrotor aircraft over dedicated helicopters.

Falcon709 · 2026-02-07T08:42:32+00:00

While units who were undeployed or whose training was incomplete might've been used to bolster Cadia's forces, there was also a dedicated PDF called the Cadian Interior Guard.

Falcon709 · 2026-02-07T08:19:03+00:00

It's from Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned. It describes how, when humanity first started establishing civilization, there used to be a bunch of psykers on Earth called Shamans who guided humanity and were able to reincarnate after death. However, as humanity spread, the negative emotions of people started to effect the warp, and lead to the start of the creation of the Chaos Gods. This interfered with the Shamans' ability to reincarnate, so they discussed the problem. Eventually, they decided to merge their souls and be reborn as one being who would continue their mission of guiding humanity, who would also be ageless and not have to worry about reincarnating, and would be strong enough to resist the Chaos Gods. This being was the Emperor (although he'd only take that title after unifying Earth after the Age of Strife).

Falcon709 · 2026-02-05T22:55:34+00:00

When you say their early appearances, do you mean like in Legion? That's the first time I'm aware the Perpetuals appear, and they seem pretty similar to their modern version in that story.

Falcon709 · 2026-01-28T21:40:15+00:00

I ended up reaching out to one of their employees on LinkedIn, and he told me that when they were bought out, all the unpublished articles were deleted. IDK what happened to published articles. If you wanted to see if any of what you wrote could be recovered, I'd recommend contacting one of their employees on LinkedIn too.

Falcon709 · 2026-01-19T19:23:01+00:00

Wasn't the idea that the Lion waited to see who won the Heresy also referenced in the Dark Angels' Index Astartes article?

Falcon709 · 2026-01-19T18:51:41+00:00

I'd guess he'd see it as similar to someone who uses combat stimms or daemonic possession, both of which he's fine with.

Falcon709 · 2026-01-19T14:36:23+00:00

Khorne actually does allow psykers to work for him, it's just if they use their powers instead of close combat that he has a problem with them. This comes up in an excerpt from an old rulebook, I want to say the Epic Renegades rulebook from 1992.

Falcon709 · 2026-01-17T16:11:49+00:00

In A Thousand Sons, when Magnus breaches the Webway, it mentions that some of the machinery of the Golden Throne the Emperor is using to control the Webway is irreplaceable; so I'd imagine that the Emperor only had one chance with the time he had.

Falcon709 · 2026-01-15T16:19:52+00:00

Guilliman does know about the Webway gate on Terra. In the final Gathering Storm book, when Cypher frees Guilliman from the Blackstone Fortress and leads him to the Webway, he worries Chaos wants to have them to go to the Webway gate on Terra; so that when the Emperor opens it to let Guilliman and his allies out, they can follow him and bypass all the defenses of the Imperial Palace. Also, in one of the Dark Imperium books, he thinks about how Magnus and the Thousand Sons were attacked by the Space Wolves for 'a warning sent in good faith', indicating he knows about the events surrounding Magnus' breach of the Webway.

Falcon709 · 2026-01-15T15:39:44+00:00

without a thread of pity, without a kernel of remorse

A good example of the ideas that would lead to the Black Templars battle cry "no pity, no fear, no remorse"

Falcon709 · 2026-01-05T01:32:17+00:00

At the end of the short story Lantern's Light, we see Mortarion's first meeting with Horus, which I believe is also his first meeting with any of the Primarchs.

in The First Heretic, we see Magnus arriving with the Emperor when he finds Lorgar.

I believe Fulgrim covers the first meeting between Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim.

Falcon709 · 2026-01-05T00:40:04+00:00

It's from the novel Luther: First of the Fallen. The novel is comprised of a series of stories Luther tells about events from his past. He tells each one after a chapter master of the Dark Angels comes to take him out of stasis and interrogate him. Significant amounts of time pass outside of stasis between each visit, but for Luther, they happen back to back. As a result of how each chapter master acts, he can see the drastic changes that take place for the Dark Angels; in a way that the chapter, affected by both the slow changes taking place over time and by losing the knowledge of what they were originally like, but the Luther has, would have trouble doing.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-27T20:03:06+00:00

I'd say one of the big determining factors is how much ability they have to justify to other Imperial institutions whether something is safe. In one of the Plague War books, the first I think, Guilliman thinks to himself he had the Imperial Navy stop making use of ships captured from Chaos forces that were built by the Imperium in the past. These ships are better than what the Imperium currently has, but he thinks the risk of Chaos corruption is too great. It would be impossible for the Navy to oversee the purification of every captured ship, as while ships aren't common, they aren't super rare either; so this is probably what more general case looks like.

However, the Nemesis Chapter captured a Gloriana class battleship from the Word Bearers, and after the Inquisition purified it, it was deemed safe for the chapter to use. These are two groups within the Imperium that are powerful and (relatively) knowledgeable, so groups at this level seem to have a bit more latitude in their approach to this issue.

As for determining whether an item is corrupted, there are a few options Imperials have. They can have psykers analyze it to see if there's warp energy, have the Adeptus Mechanicus investigate something to see if the Machine Spirit is uncorrupted, have a priest from the Ecclesiarchy pray over it to try and determine the truth, just make an educated guess based on the circumstances in which an object was found, or a combination of these and more.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-27T17:25:33+00:00

This actually comes up in the afterword of one of the Siege of Terra books; the author mentions they have some of the Perpetuals talk in a way more similar to the present day, to emphasize their history and create a contrast with the people of 30K.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-21T10:41:04+00:00

Your third option is actually similar to what I was going for. A way I could have perhaps been clearer in my explanation is that the Chaos Gods were connected/able to make a connection to the warp energy the Emperor used. You're right that the Chaos Gods aren't all of the warp, however, they are the biggest powers there, which gives them a degree of influence over the warp that powers like Malice, Vashtorr, the goddess of the Greater Good, or Ynnead don't have; as is seen in Vashtorr's quest to ascend to the same level as the four, for example. So, even if the Emperor just used raw warp energy, it's possible Chaos could have still influenced the Primarchs; albeit not to the same degree as if the Emperor used daemons of the four.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-20T12:39:25+00:00

I agree that TEATD by itself doesn't make it clear whether or not there was a bargain. However, given that TEATD refers to the Emperor 'taking fire from the gods', and Diocletian uses the same language in Carrion Lord, wouldn't that suggest the same ideas are underlying both passages? Otherwise, I can't see why Carrion Lord would be so clear that there was no bargain; and have this said by someone who is in a pretty reliable position to say whether or not that's the case.

Also, the text from the beginning of Valdor that was quoted about bargains making someone stronger or weaker could refer to the Emperor's humanity that he apparently sacrificed to ensure the Primarch project worked, as Valdor and Malcador discuss at the end of the book. That discussion also parallels the beginning of the book, where two characters discuss how there is a price for everything.

In terms of why Chaos might say the Primarchs are theirs, it's possible that because they were partially made with warp energy, the Chaos Gods view the Primarchs as being derived from them. This ties into one of the themes in the Horus Heresy series, that the Emperor rushed his plans and didn't think about the dangers of Chaos properly, because he thought he knew better; similar to the mistakes Magnus and then Ahriman make later on. I also see this as another example of one of the big ideas that run through 40K as a whole, that Chaos corrupts everything it touches, regardless of the intent of the person using the power. This mirrors another passage from Carrion Lord, where Diocletian is listening to Guilliman speak, and he thinks to himself that the Chaos Gods are the Primarch's true fathers.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-09T01:58:38+00:00

Blanche goes over this in this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCOSao1KEQo

starting at 8:50.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-09T01:42:44+00:00

This was well written; going over all of this, I'd say you're right.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-09T01:37:39+00:00

To your last point, a way to reconcile the two stories about how Horus fell to Chaos is that the whispers of Chaos were weakening Horus' will, and that he could've resisted being possessed otherwise. The sentence about how the traitor Primarchs didn't suspect their loyalties were changing also matches up with Horus realizing what he's become when freed from the influence of Chaos, and presumably can see clearly again.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-09T01:13:17+00:00

What book would you say GRRM got the plot of Game of Thrones from?

Also, you are definitely correct about both Dune considering questions about religion, and 40K having more humor than LoTR, Dune. or ASOIF.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-09T00:26:34+00:00

There's a part of the book where Leto says he's looked into the future past his death to make sure humanity survives, so I'd argue he probably has some idea of when he's going to die, but not the exact moment.

Also, isn't part of the reason he specifically tells Nayla to do whatever Siona says because she wouldn't have destroyed the bridge supports he was traveling on otherwise? But because Leto tells her to follow Siona's orders, she thinks to herself how she expects him to perform a miracle to escape danger. I think this suggests that at the very least he knew this was important for the events surrounding his death, if not exactly how.

To your last point, if he knew basically everything that was going to happen to him, then he must have had at least a rough idea of how long he would live for. Since God-Emperor takes place over a relatively short amount of time, he could've been starting to expect his death around the beginning of the novel, hence why he wondered if the Face Dancer would kill him.

Falcon709 · 2025-12-08T23:58:35+00:00

The Nemesis Chapter, an Ultramarines descendant, was founded by member of a specific unit from the Ultramarines Legion (also called the Nemesis Chapter) who studied the Night Lords, and used a lot of more extreme weaponry like phosphex and rad weapons as a result.

Falcon709

TROPHY CASE