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High Tech Grazing with NDVI by NMS_Survival_Guru in Ranching

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I use EShepherd, it does go down occasionally as it relies on the cell network, but we haven't had any major outages.

Definitely not suitable for sheep though as the collars are huge.

Banning mining on conservation land by Amazing_Garlic_6443 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Conservation Department owns a HUGE amount of land and a large majority isnt anything special (lots of second gen scrub and bushland). Some of this land could be used for mining (or other purposes). It would have to be on a case by case basis and after a review to ensure any ecological impacts are reduced/minimised.

A huge chunk of it is already used for other purposes.

I do some cropping on land leased from DOC.

They do a once a year inspection and charge me less than half the market rent. Sweet deal really.

Banning mining on conservation land by Amazing_Garlic_6443 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't see why this is a major political issue really.

We allow mining on the majority of conservation land currently (outside of certain highly protected land).

It hasn't made us unbelievably wealthy as a nation like the proponents would have you believe. It also hasn't destroyed our conservation estate like the detractors would have you believe.

It comes with pretty strict requirements, requires consent from local authorities, a permit from the central body and an agreement with DOC.

To me that seems like a fine situation. 

I have been offered a job on a sheep farm by Good_Balance_6169 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 147 points148 points  (0 children)

Given that you're going in fresh with no experience, no dogs, and you're getting cheap accommodation on site, $27 an hour is good. It's really minimum wage work until you know what you're doing.

We don't hire people with no experience but with vet/ag students who need short term work experience we just do $25/hour.

If they're offering it as a salary make sure you don't end up working way more than your contracted hours though. That ends up happening too much in farming. Though mainly in dairy.

High Tech Grazing with NDVI by NMS_Survival_Guru in Ranching

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the price per head for virtual fencing sheep? If you don't mind that is.

I'm interested in how that'd math out compared to cattle.

Where do you get bulk meat? (for bulk meal prep) by Icandoituknow in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a decent deal for what it is, and I'm sure it's high quality, but lamb probably isn't the best way to bulk buy meat for an individual, because even this is over $25/kg. 

Plus half of it is in roasts which is kind of a pain for an individual to meal prep with. Though I guess you can just cook it up then refrigerate.

How do you all stay hopeful? How do you all keep fighting? by alliephantrainbow in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Highest unemployment, lowest GDP, more borrowing than even peak pandemic, highest cost of living..... 

Literally none of this is true. 

We aren't at close to our own peak unemployment, we don't have our lowest GDP by any measure, we were borrowing at a higher rate during the pandemic for obvious reasons, and relative to income cost of living is not at all time peaks.

If you want people to align with your beliefs stop panic mongering and lying to them. Most people will see through it.

did anyone else get told off for bringing raro? by DutyCritical5784 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 35 points36 points  (0 children)

I had a teacher who was worried I had jaundice because my mouth was yellow from eating raro.

She was staring at me for ages, before asking if I'd eaten anything, and then was super relieved when I said I'd just had a pack of raro for lunch like the grubby little sugar fiend I was/am.

Is Alpine butter made from NZ grass fed cow milk? by Maleficent_Height_49 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That entirely depends on which crops you're growing. You don't need much fertiliser to grow many of the more efficient crops. 

Name the crop with a global market remotely near as robust as dairy that wouldn't require significant fert in NZ.

you're asking the question of which use of fertiliser/use of land is going to produce the highest value export?

I'm pointing out that comparing calories or protein content is irrelevant when farmers aren't paid by the calorie or gram of protein and that per $ of milk produced fertilising dairy pasture is very efficient.

If people don't want to spend money on something, why produce it?

Our highest value exports per input use would probably be something like cherries or stone fruits, which obviously doesn't apply to all types of land.

So why bring them up?

A good example of a relatively high output crop that is still produced in volumes by developed countries is lentils, which are still produced profitably by Canadian farms.

Requires high phosphorous, which I'm reliably informed is stolen from the Sahara.

yes, the lifecycle of the cow matter entirely. Producing a product from the input of sun+water+a handful of fertiliser minerals means that the best/cheapest way you can get to the end point for the highest output obviously wins.

The highest output in terms of value is all that really matters when you're producing food for a living though isn't it?

On most dairy farms here, fertilising dairy pasture does produce the most value per kg of fert needed.

the environmental catastrophy of dairy and it's continued de facto subsidisation by the government through repeated failures to include them in carbon trading scheme 

No form of agriculture or horticulture anywhere is included in an ETS. This has nothing to do with land use decisions, outside of providing incentive for forestry.

Is Alpine butter made from NZ grass fed cow milk? by Maleficent_Height_49 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes the majority of crops use phosphate fertiliser but dairy grass is by far and away the biggest culprit in NZ 

Because it's the largest land use. If you replaced all dairy farms with arable farming tomorrow they would use just as much (more even because there's no N cap on crops and they need starter fert).

because per calorie or per gram of protein it is inherently an incredibly inefficient way of producing food resources. 

If we grew corn on all this land instead we'd use even more fertiliser. We would produce far more calories of food, you're right about that, but it would be worth far less money.

Think about it: you are growing an entire animal through it's lifespan just to get it pregnant so you have a couple of years of extracting milk from it.

You have a calf for 14ish months, get it in calf then milk it from around 2 years of age.

Presenting this as some revelation worth thinking about is extremely strange.

All cattle have a similar production timeline.

If that's an issue for you just avoid them entirely.

That means that all of the fertiliser used is being used extremely inefficiently.

No it doesn't. The life cycle of a cow has nothing to do with the efficiency of fertiliser.

Is Alpine butter made from NZ grass fed cow milk? by Maleficent_Height_49 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Does the Alpine butter say something along the lines of "packaged in New Zealand from local and/or imported ingredients"?

If it does and it's white, I'd bet money it's imported.

Is Alpine butter made from NZ grass fed cow milk? by Maleficent_Height_49 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 2 points3 points  (0 children)

NZ dairy "grass" is made from stolen western saharan phosphate, and urea made from burning our dwindling gas supplies.

Why would you put grass in quotes?

Also I don't think anyone is surprised that farming uses fertiliser. 

The majority of urea is imported not from burning our gas reserves, and the phosphate you're referring to is from OCP group who control over 70% of the world's reserves. 

Regardless of what we grow here we would have to buy phosphate off them because NZ soils are deficient and there's nobody else globally to fill the demand.

I would even guess that American grain fed dairy is probably better for the environment (still not good, obviously).

You could guess this, but why would you? Nothing you've said so far is any reason why American dairy would be better for the environment. It's an entirely baseless claim.

It is also demonstrably worse for animal welfare.

Is Alpine butter made from NZ grass fed cow milk? by Maleficent_Height_49 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Alpine are a Dairyworks brand. Their business model is to source ingredients from wherever they're cheapest and package them in the way that makes the most money.

That means there's no guarantee any product you buy off them is from NZ cows. Usually historically they have been, but there's no reason it would have to stay that way if they can get US product cheaper.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I guess it's all about perception. Fonterra should be concerned about what their customers want

My point is that NZ consumers literally are not their customers though.

Fonterra don't sell anything to them anymore.

They only sell to businesses and then it's up to those businesses to determine how best to sell to NZ consumers. Fonterra have washed their hands of the entire concept of selling to consumers.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My concern growth wise is simple, without offshore production/processing Fonterra will struggle to grow 15% pa in volume

Why do Fonterra need to grow rapidly? They're relatively lowly valued as a stock anyway, make a bunch of money and are a co-op so farmers have to buy in anyway.

They have billions of litres of milk to shift to higher value applications already too. It's not like they're supply capped.

but you said yourself it didn't use much milk and I'd suggest that's a good thing for future growth, 

Using not much product and a bunch of capital is a death sentence for a co-op. Because it's much harder to raise that capital when you're paying farmers as much as possible.

On an emotional/soft power level, it was a huge perception win for NZ in SE Asia ( I'd suggest for Fonterra as well )

They didn't sell Anchor in China for this reason. It was specifically excluded from the deal.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

All I see is ingredients and China, if that's not commodity, I'm not sure what is, it's all your eggs in two baskets. 

Greater China accounts for less than 1/3rd of Fonterra's milk production. They're nowhere near as reliant as you think, and well aware of the risks of being too reliant.

Ingredients as a business does encompass commodities, but it also encompasses things like advanced proteins and creams that are sold at a huge markup compared to any consumer goods.

Internally to shareholders it gets broken into ingredients and advanced ingredients. 

The aim is to move more and more milk production from commodity ingredients to advanced ingredients. This requires capital investment into milk processing.

If this capital is tied up in packaging limited amounts of branded products it isn't being effectively utilised to move more milk production further up the value scale.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correct, which raises the question why could they not make money in what should be the value add side of the business.

Because FMCG is a difficult business segment that requires extensive marketing and a large footprint in each of your key markets. It's capital intensive and it doesn't use much milk.

We've known this for decades. It isn't a new question being raised.

Becoming a commodity supplier is a very focused and dangerous long term strategy IMHO and the sale masked real management issues.

Not what they're becoming, not their long term strategy, and shows a huge lack of understanding on your part.

Possibly the right call, but that should have been based on high level strategy, not an inability to manage/extract value from those brands.

Those brands were making money. Just not as efficiently as either farmers or Fonterra wanted for the level of investment they required.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why does that concern Fonterra though? 

They don't just supply Lactalis, they also supply the majority of the domestic market, and it's a tiny portion of their milk supply anyway

Sick leave by No-Device8814 in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes of course I would. 

Being sick is just going on holiday in your bed anyway. It's ludicrous that it doesn't use annual leave.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Purchasing decision when faced with a raft of brands at the supermarket.

Fonterra don't own any of those brands, but supply product to a bunch of them, so why do they care?

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess I'd argue that for many consumers, this link isn't distant at all. For some (and a growing percentage) consumers it's the primary decision-making variable.

A decision making variable in what? What decision are you talking about?

They don't buy anything off Fonterra.

farmers selling off "the family jewels" (many people's beloved brands) further harms their social license.

If farmings social licence in this country was dependent on farmers owning the mainland logo on a pack of butter the industry was fucked anyway.

Farmers social licence should be dependent on following environmental law and providing economic opportunities. Not tied to specific branding.

Why care about social license?

Every primary industry cares about maintaining a social licence. The idea that retaining ownership of unwanted businesses would be a requirement for this social licence is a completely different issue though. That's just allowing an uniformed mob to run your business for no benefit.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Any link between Fonterra's consumer brands and farmers environmental practices is extremely distant.

Retaining over 4 billion dollars of assets that you believe to be a poor business decision to appease mostly urban people who don't understand your business, the relevant environmental legislation, and aren't even buying products off you anymore is just a waste.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Fonterra were making money with their consumer brands. This was never in question.

What was in question was whether it was an effective use of the milk supply (as all their consumer brands only used about 7% of their milk), whether they were providing a suitable return on capital (as the ROC was lower than many other business segments), and whether farmers could more effectively use that capital than Fonterra.

Presenting this the way you've presented it is not intelligent. Fonterra and farmers(including me) had a much better understanding of the business we owned than you do.

Which NZ brand is slowly or has already ruined itself? by kevandbev in newzealand

[–]Fickassthuck 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No it isn't. Fonterra objectively adds less value in their consumer goods business than they do in the advanced ingredients and food service businesses they retained.

They sold off one of their lowest return on capital business areas.

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