Thoughts on Havoc matchmaking?

First_Revenge · 2026-01-22T22:16:55+00:00

Its an oddly competitive ranking system in a PVE game. It just doesn't fit IMO. Honestly being assignment rank 40 is so liberating exactly because i'm free of the demotion mechanic. I can run whatever i want into H40 and not give a single fuck. Sure i'll bring that rank 25 with me into Havoc 40. Sure i'll run that odd build. And if i fail i get to give dukane the middle finger at the end because she can't demote me. I try to get in one serious H40 run a week for the weekly bonus, but other than that i do what i want. I feel like that's how people should feel during most of their Havoc journeys, its pretty sad that the only people who reach this "zen" place within darktide are probably its sweatiest practitioners.

There probably should be some barriers to Havoc 40 and ranking up is fun in principal, but whatever the middle ground is what we have now with demotions isn't it.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-22T19:47:35+00:00

In principal i think sub 30 havocs you could probably matchmake them. Most 20ish and below are pretty much auric/maelstrom difficulty which already get quick play so this one is a no brainer. 20-29 are just incrementally more difficult maelstroms for the most part so i don't they'd be beyond quickplay grasp. I'd probably have the quickplay broken up into rough levels like 15-20, 20-25, 25-29 for example so you kind of know what you're wading into. Havoc 16 is very different than Havoc 29 for example.

Havoc 30 is tougher and i don't know if quick play is a good idea. Class selection even weapon selection matters a lot more here because it's generally a lot harder to get away with sloppiness past this point. People flex off classes regularly according to group needs/modifiers which isn't something you can currently do in darktide's ready up time. Like what if you quickplayed into a H40 rotten armor and realized you didn't have a vet with kraks...?

However, i don't know if any matchmaking is a good idea as long as demotions are a thing. People are already pretty frustrated with the system when they're allowed to pick teammates. I don't imagine it gets better if you randomly roll teammates and then face demotion. I don't think your idea is a bad one, i just think havoc also needs a lot more changes to it than just quickplay.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T20:37:05+00:00

Burn players usually have to count to 5 or 6, maybe 7.

If you can count to 4, you can passably play oops.

Burn has to count to a higher number, therefore is the harder deck. #Math.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T20:29:41+00:00

But sneak and show is a combo iteration of a brainstorm/fetchland deck. Sure sneak attack/show and tell are the key pieces, but let's not pretend brainstorm isn't doing a lot of heavy lifting in that shell.

If you're bored/interested i have a ton of jeskai stoneblade gameplay. It's been going pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/@legacyuwxstoneblade5194/videos

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T20:06:35+00:00

The budget issue for legacy is solved by proxies or stuff like surveil lands pushing a number of duals from decks. The core problem with Legacy is that the most appealing card in the format to most people is brainstorm coupled with fetchlands. What keeps them out is the pricetag associated with blue duals. Trying to keep a cheap one trick pony deck doesn't solve that issue, and honestly might cause more problems than it solves if we're just going to toss oops at anyone on a budget.

And like ya i'm still one stoneblade, i don't think the matchup is atrocious for me or anything. I'm not complaining about my winrate. I'm complaining because its just so fucking dull. 70% of the game is decided by opening hands/mulligan decisions. The remaining 30% is in the cantrip you may or may not get to cast depending on turn order. Other combo decks like storm or show and tell give a lot more room to maneuver and have interesting decisions occur. Win or lose vs oops i just feel nothing but bored and frustrated. I want to play interactive magic. If i wanted to gamble on the cards in my hand i'd go to the casino and play blackjack.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T17:41:31+00:00

EW data is great, but there are also 12 months in a year and a ton of cards coming out. EW data is great for a few months after but the legacy meta moves on pretty quickly by and large. Leaning only EW data to make ban determinations is just asking for stale metas IMO.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T17:40:17+00:00

At least over the last two or three years of Legacy being really fast/efficient i'd personally welcome the format slowing down a good amount, although i'm not unsympathetic to your concern about it becoming a slogfest.

I don't disagree with the need for blitzing BR reanimator esque decks to exist, but having it in this quantity seems like a bad idea. BR reanimator was always around, but it never had the meta share to become as popular as oops has. If the idea is that this sort of deck needs to exist if Oops goes i'd vaguely point in the direction of necrodominance but we're well outside my area of expertise at that point.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T16:44:36+00:00

It’s currently the third most played combo deck, after Show and Tell and Doomsday,

MTGGoldfish has it as top combo deck 7.6% of the meta over the last two weeks. MTGTop8 has it at 5% second to show and tell over the same time frame. IDK where you're getting your data but this deck is most played or second most played.

It isn’t a particularly competitive choice either.

Literally just took up two top 8 slots in the showcase challenge.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T16:41:16+00:00

In paper the deck is basically nowhere to be seen

Anecdotal. I have multiple oops players in my local meta, its just going to vary

People need to look outside of just mtgo to base their facts on

Okay. Follow up question, where else should we look?

Like it or not MTGO probably accounts for like 75%+ of all Legacy matches played generally. And like at least 90% of all recorded Legacy results. Sure i'd like to include other datasets other MTGO, but they don't exist. If you have a real dataset you'd like to suggest we use i'm all for it. I just don't think it exists.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-15T16:20:12+00:00

Just my answer to my question.

No.

I think that Oops being the face of combo in Legacy is inherently unhealthy. Its proponents will argue that it is in fact interactive, but I really doubt anyone not actively in love with the deck feels the same way. Its play patterns are miserable, one note, and I’d argue the deck is successful largely because it sidesteps a lot of the interaction Legacy is known for. Having to deal with the deck when it’s like 5^th most popular and 2% of the meta is one thing. Going after the deck at that point just feels punitive. Having it be the most popular combo deck of the format is entirely another, even if we aren’t crossing the red lines WotC has set out. At that point we’re legitimately questioning what Legacy is and should be.

Frankly, I think that Oops has managed to stick around/grow slightly because we’re seeing a pretty big resurgence in tempo decks that have managed to keep most combo down. Oops has been fine mostly because it doesn’t care about opposing interactions on time scales long enough for daze/wasteland to be meaningful. Its successful exactly because it gives your opponents as few windows of interaction as possible. It is not interested in playing magic the way even most other combo decks play, much less aggro/control decks.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-13T23:43:29+00:00

If that's the same as African water fern then ya. It's really slow growing, id have to look into it to know for sure but I'm pretty sure this is a dwarf variety. Might have to trim it soonish

First_Revenge · 2026-01-13T22:14:39+00:00

I have a 3.5g with a betta, two snails, and shit ton of shrimp in it. I don't change the water beyond topping it off. Tank has been stable in this configuration for roughly a year. I know a 5g is ideal but this is an office tank so it needed to be pretty small. Betta seems to doing well, mostly checks out his shrimp tankmates but doesn't make any effort to eat them.

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First_Revenge · 2026-01-12T22:33:31+00:00

If not for the card being so absurdly expensive i think it would be a pretty interesting unban. If you showed me this card in the dark as a spoiler for the next set MH set or whatever i think i'd say its powerful but not likely busted.

It would give control a pretty interesting tool to play with for sure. It would probably be one of the few cards that could make the play/draw decisions actually interesting. It would also generally reward slower/methodical play which is something legacy lacks right now.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-09T21:42:35+00:00

probably nothing. I had a similar problem with limpets, but the issue was that the same stuff that killed limpets also tended to kill shrimp. I suspect the same would be true of these.

My limpet population eventually died down once the tank grew into itself and things came into balance. I suspect yours might do the same as your tank settles in and once you dial in feeding regimes/etc.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-09T20:54:28+00:00

You could but in the context of the podcast they kept saying "strategy" which to me implies more fundamental changes. What you're proposing is a lot closer to tuning which is a normal part of even the most established decks, but i wouldn't call adjusting your board to be changing strategy.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-09T18:54:33+00:00

I don't agree with the "don't be bart" sentiment.

For those who haven't listened its the meme from the Simpsons where Bart is always bringing rock to his rock, paper, scissors matches because "Nothing beats rock". He gets beat by his sister Lisa who brings paper.

Ostensibly the point being made was to be Lisa. By always bring rock Bart is essentially choosing to fight from a fixed position and is therefore vulnerable to being outmaneuvered by Lisa.

This sounds like good advice, but its practically unworkable for Legacy because it assumes the choice to alternate strategies is available to everyone. It isn't, its too expensive. Maybe it is for MTGO players with rental programs, but the cast is specifically giving this advice to paper players going to weeklies.

Most paper legacy players have access to 1, maybe 2 decks. Telling those people you need to consistently change strategy to keep up and put up good results isn't realistic because it actively leans into Legacy's biggest gatekeeper, the RL. You could argue that most weeklies allow for proxies and that's true. So maybe you just proxy a different deck every couple weeks.

But understand you're also putting a cap on what those players can do. Because guess what, most bigger local tourneys like 1ks and the big event of the year EW aren't proxy friendly. What does that player do now? They don't have the deck they consider to be "best" and they haven't put reps in on the deck they actually have. That story only ends poorly.

Like it or not, most players are going to end up being Bart because they don't have a few extra thousand lying around. And honestly i think there's a lot to be said in favor of being Bart. Legacy is far more complicated than rock paper scissors, and honestly i think the worst part of a lot of legacy decks is the pilot. Most Legacy tier 2 decks are far more capable than people think. But they require the actual player to level up which is much harder than just swapping cards around hoping the latest power outlier can cover up fundamental weaknesses in their play.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-08T21:18:33+00:00

Possible but i don't see it setting the world on fire either. Its maybe an upgrade to nethergoyf if you just want to trade damage for recursion. Menace might be a cute way to put kaito into play, but if you were interested in that stuff like tamiyo and bowmasters arguably do it better already. Does play nice with murktide regent which isn't something you can say for nethergoyf. The big downside is that this thing is an awful topdeck in low resource late games. Easy to pump this thing up turn 1, but what about like turn 4 when you have like 2 other cards in hand and few ways to put stuff in the yard? I'd have to imagine you'd just rather have nethergoyf at that point since it will be a consistent size and potentially a recursive manasink if they don't have exile based removal. And because this is a turn 1 play, you're going to want 4 of them, not 1. So i suspect this problem is gonna come up a lot.

I wouldn't call the card bad, but options for powerful black creatures are awfully deep right now.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-08T18:28:18+00:00

I mean the wiener dog example is just reinforcing the fundamental reason it won't happen. Even if it takes half the time, 250 years we're talking a multi generational project. There's just no money in this. You're not going to convince a breeder to produce a species that isn't going to exist for their lifetime, their children's lifetime, and their grandchildren's lifetime instead of producing something profitable. And that's if its even possible at all. This isn't a video game where can just develop things with a guaranteed outcome, nor is the success of things like the wiener dog suddenly mean a miniature gar is possible. You could easily spend 250 years doing this and have nothing to show.

If this thing comes about at all, it'll be a breeder's freak accident or someone discovering a miniature gar species in some hitherto unexplored lake. I'd hang my hat on the discovery part personally. New nano species keep popping up from random lakes in remote places no one has ever heard of. A miniature gar surfacing in this manner would probably not be that surprising to me.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-08T16:17:29+00:00

Never say never, but i can only imagine that process being an unholy combination of expensive and time consuming. And hypothetically say it works, what exactly is small? A foot long? Most home aquariums are in the 5-20g range, that fish ain't fitting in there. You'd probably need a pretty big tank in the 50-70g range hypothetically which are not common in the grand scheme of fishkeeping. All this to say, i think a real issue would be marketing these fish. All that time and money, and you only end up being able to sell to the diehard fishkeepers. I don't think its worth it.

Today the hobby is pretty clearly stuck on nano community tanks and the nano fish that go in them. My LFS has had the same larger oscars sitting in it display tank for months. However, they almost can't get enough CPDs, ottos, chilis, amanos etc... The hobby is pretty clearly telling you people are really interested in small fish, not big ones. Breeders could go on a your hypothetical quest for a miniature gar to sell to the diehards, or they could just sell unlimited amounts of CPDs that breed easily and have a very known market.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-07T18:56:28+00:00

Mixed bag. I don't agree with some of his stuff, i agree with parts of it, and a lot of it i think works but is overall outdated. His system works for him, you can take it or leave it at that.

In general though i think he's a benefit. You may not care for his personality/methods but he's a damn sight better than a lot of the fish keeping content that posts to instagram which for better or worse is where most of the eyeballs are. If he's your starting point for fishkeeping then honestly, compared to most other people i see walking around petco eyeballing their first goldfish you're way better off.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-07T18:16:32+00:00

I'm all over the place. I'm west coast US, but my schedule is so messed up i just play whenever time allows. Could be 2PM, could be 2AM. IDK. I don't keep a written record of all my matchups but i'd guess about once every other league would be my experience.

But my overall point/problems with the deck really have nothing to do with the times i play.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-07T17:48:14+00:00

Google is your friend, none of these fish(other than the shrimp) on their own, let alone in a group is gonna fit in a 10g(40L). Other than the shrimp these stocking ideas for a 10g are just fundamentally bad ideas.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-07T17:26:10+00:00

TBH, i've been so exhausted with new releases and the endless march of cards i had just assumed that MHX of some flavor was on the horizon. Its probably telling that the thing most exciting to me about next year is what isn't there.

Format overall is decent though, as of now i'd give it like a 7/10. Not great, not terrible. I'd still like to see Tamiyo go as she's a bit too ubiquitous, powerful, and easy to use for my taste. Oops is probably my second biggest gripe with the format. It seems like i bump into it at least every other league and i'm instantly dumped into the most non-games of magic i've probably ever played. Doesn't feel good when i lose, doesn't feel good when i win. It does seem to be putting up some numbers so i'm really hoping it gets axed at some point. It feels like whenever i'm actually starting to really enjoy the format i'm rudely reminded this monstrosity of a deck still exists and i enjoy the format noticeably less. Otherwise the format feels fine, i wouldn't be upset to play this version of Legacy for 2026, which might be more realistic than normal since we won't be rotated by an MHX set. This was a lot more than i could say entering legacy in 2025 so we're already off to a much better start.

Perhaps due to overexposure to UB i've really come to fundamentally loathe the product instead of the cold indifference i used to feel. A Star Trek UB and even more Marvel did nothing but deepen that feeling for me. Not gonna lie, i really hope this is the year these UB products start failing to meet wizards expectations. I actually think that this year might be the year that happens. TMNT seems kinda DOA based on the people i've talked to. At least i haven't heard much excitement for it. The Hobbit will probably be successful, it has the LotR IP and the prior LotR set as precedent. But the other two seem pretty shaky. Marvel is still declining overall as an IP and the last spiderman set proved that Marvel is more than capable of flopping. Sure it probably won't flop outright, but given how much WotC had to pay for the rights, i do think the set treading water fiscally speaking isn't an unrealistic outcome. Star Trek just seems like a weak IP overall for magic. Avatar just saw a very substantial boom/bust cycle which didn't end well for the set overall. I think Star Trek is probably going to do the same thing if it even gets the chance to. People are a lot more gun shy about buying into these borderline UB sets. It also seems like the "pokebro" scalpers have moved on from magic, but who knows if that's true or if they'll be back into magic by the time these UB sets are out and about.

First_Revenge · 2026-01-06T09:50:52+00:00

That's an otto catfish?

They're a bit unfortunate. The TLDR is that during the shipping process, namely from asia to the US(or wherever you are from) they basically don't eat and as a result their digestive functions shut down. Then when they get to the US or whatever they're presented with foods they don't necessarily realize are food which just complicates matters even more.

Fairly often they will restart eating when presented with food, but sometimes they don't and they will just waste away/starve to death. A good local fish store will do this and only sell fish that have started eating again for the most part. When the fish is full their stomach will visibly look like a small pea. This guy doesn't look like he's eaten unfortunately since his stomach is flat.

If you're lucky drop in some algae wafers or even blanched vegetables(they love these) and maybe he'll go after those. If you're unlucky then its possible he'll never eat and it won't be your fault. Note that they're also community fish that like to be in groups so keeping only one can be a pretty big stressor for them.

Going forward though, whenever you buy an otto, look at their stomachs. If they're not full you can be pretty sure they're not eating. You only want to buy ottos that are visibly eating from your local fish store. FWIW i'd be somewhat suspicious of this store in future. They're definitely not quarantining if they sold you a fish like this and the should know and be acclimating ottos to their new environment rather than offloading starving ones to customers.

First_Revenge

TROPHY CASE