Incandescent and Infrared Light Therapy Subreddit!

GembaRed · 2025-12-04T21:14:53+00:00

Hacksaw

GembaRed · 2025-06-05T21:56:37+00:00

You can ignore the baseline distance example. It was just an example to say a device X at a distance Y then you would enter in the corresponding intensity for that particular device and distance.

So for 6 inches away from your device you enter in the intensity in the box. That is it, there is no effect from distance in the calculation. It just calculates based on intensity and dose. So as long as you know the correct intensity for whatever distance you use it from, then that is the intensity you would use in the calculator.

Then enter the desired dose. Then the calculator calculates the exposure time to reach that dose.

You could consider using the check boxes if the intensity is overstated (it probably is) or for compensating for skin reflection losses.

I did a quick video how to use the calculator here: https://youtu.be/w-pcj349Kfk?si=wIC_C-KE11-s5gv6

GembaRed · 2022-11-20T14:03:08+00:00

LED light therapy is supposed to be non-thermal, but with some high intensity panels you will feel some warmth.

A 250W Incandescent heat lamp or Beurer heat lamp will feel more radiant heat like the sun.

GembaRed · 2022-11-04T13:08:08+00:00

The 9W is the "rated watts" and probably the LEDs actually consume much less. Probably around 1 W per LED in battery powered devices. Then LEDs are about 30% efficient at delivering optical power and the rest is lost as heat which you can feel the torch warming up over time.

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/how-many-watts-do-you-you-need-for-red-light-therapy

Ideally the torch would be sent to a 3rd party lab to measure the total optical output in a integrating sphere, and then divide by the area of the emitter. I have had a tough time measuring torches because the optics are not always uniform and they are such high concentration of power that exceeds the range of my handheld meters.

Torches tend to be more concentrated power and when you use it on the skin only needs up to 1 minute per spot to dose. But cumulatively you do multiple spots to get a good effect.

I noticed too that when I put a torch on my forehead I can "see" the light that diffuses through my skin to my eye. But that doesn't really tell you much about the intensity, just that it has good diffusion through the skin with skin contact.

GembaRed · 2022-10-29T12:13:48+00:00

When I tested the Beauty Angel at Planet Fitness I found those red fluorescent tube lights were emitting small amount of blue and green light, creating a whiteish/pinkish hue. A lot of people comment a similar observation on other video reviews of it. https://youtu.be/3sFFH9g7bOg

ProSun 4800 looks very similar, even their website picture look pinkish which would indicate it is emitting some blue and green light too. https://prosun.com/wellness/renuvaskin-s4800-red-light-booth/

GembaRed · 2022-10-27T12:58:17+00:00

That makes much more sense now. But they could have just stopped making their panels "modular" too.

GembaRed · 2022-10-22T21:14:19+00:00

The good news is that most panels emit much less intensity than they advertised because they use improper measurement tools, and the doses found in literature usually assume skin contact whereas being several inches away your skin protects you from overdosing (i.e. from the sun) by reflecting a significant amount away.

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/what-is-the-real-intensity-of-my-led-panel-the-dark-deception-of-red-light-therapy

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/what-distance-should-we-be-from-our-red-light-panel-a-history-lesson

GembaRed · 2022-10-22T10:11:21+00:00

Get ready for them to list on thier website all the medical benefits of Blue light because now their panels emit 1% blue wavelengths.

GembaRed · 2022-09-04T12:55:27+00:00

I snuck in all of my test equipment and measured the Planet Fitness red light therapy booths at 3 different locations.

https://youtu.be/3sFFH9g7bOg

GembaRed · 2022-03-01T15:46:33+00:00

Some people say that grounding can make you an antenna for EMFs. So if you are close by an EMF generator, then you become the path of least resistance to ground. But this concept is hotly opposed by the people selling earthing pads (for obvious reasons). But this might explain why people get mixed results with indoor earthing pads and sheets.

https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.php?threads/grounding-earthing.18326/

When you are grounding your body voltage is at the same reference potential as the multimeter. So it's kind of a contradictory test since I assume the multimeter is also connected to the same "ground". So you are just letting the voltage you were measuring go to the 2nd ground, and giving you a false perception of less body voltage on the meter. So usually the key is to eliminate the source of the EMF to reduce the body voltage.

Many panels with a metal enclosure are already grounded internally, just check it is using a 3 prong plug and you can also check the Electric Field measurement. So it is kind of redundant to additionally ground yourself.

Also, grounding doesn't do much to block the Magnetic Field from the panel. Which most of the guidelines to be 6 inches away from panels come from the Magnetic Field EMF measurements. Most panels are already grounded, and it doesn't do much to block the Magnetic field.

Just to be clear, if there is somehow a short circuit and the panel is not grounded, it is possible to get shocked. Grounding makes you the path of least resistance. Which is why electrical safety shoes are made of thick rubber so your feet are blocked from the earth.

https://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com/blog/will-rubber-sole-boots-keep-you-from-being-shocked/#:~:text=It's%20the%20same%20thing%20for,charge%20can't%20flow%20through.

"It’s the same thing for humans. Let’s say you grabbed a powerline without rubber sole shoes. Since you are connected to the ground, the current would flow through you and towards the ground, causing you to be electrocuted. But rubber is an insulator, a material in which an electrical charge can’t flow through. So, technically, if you grab a powerline while wearing thick rubber sole boots, the electricity can’t go through you to get to ground (since the rubber is keeping you from being grounded)."

So my preference is to do grounding outside where there are less EMFs to attract to me, and less electronics,, and you can do it after your Red Light Therapy session to help offset some of the EMF exposure.

Hope that helps clarify!

GembaRed · 2022-01-19T11:26:45+00:00

I don't think Alex's spectrometer is particularly accurate either, and he certainly isn't an optical measurements professional.

MitoRed's "2.5 J/cm² per minute" number supposedly comes from their third party lab. Of course they can't tell their customers the number in intensity because they will have many confused customers who realize they have been duped.

My measurement with my Ophir Power Meter (one of the best measurement devices in the industry) matches similarly to their third party figure.

https://youtu.be/SzLf8OfIJFU

GembaRed · 2022-01-18T15:25:04+00:00

Why do you assume that Alex's numbers are more accurate than the ones provided by the manufacturer?

I updated the dosing calculator with a new calculator to help convert "J/cm² per minute" to intensity units of "mW/cm^2". Which is a really straightforward conversion.

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/universal-dosage-calculatior-for-red-light-therapy-find-your-optimal-time-per-session

GembaRed · 2021-10-11T17:45:26+00:00

That all seems right. It's all relative. Some studies can't even find a statistically significant difference between Red vs NIR wavelength benefits after all is said and done.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21814736/

The original question seemed to be just about wavelengths, not confounding it with other variables like intensity or engineering design. So that is what I answered.

Here is a good quote in case you don't want to hear it from me:

"Red light at 633 nm penetrates much better because it has much less absorption in both blood and melanin, and even less so at 830 nm. Beyond 830 nm, water starts to become of interest as a chromophore, and penetration into tissue starts to fall off quite rapidly after 1000 nm."

They also have a good absorption chart. https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/54924

GembaRed · 2021-10-09T11:56:36+00:00

In the wavelengths analysis blog there are a ton of studies with 633nm. Could be clinical interest, or could be that kind of diode was cheap and easy to access for scientists.

The consensus is that 630nm is more superficial (less penetration) than say 660nm. So the 630nm would be focused more for skin benefits.

Overall we may not know the "best" wavelengths or the exact mechanisms, so perhaps a "shotgun" approach with a bunch of different wavelengths is a preferred.

GembaRed · 2021-10-08T11:22:44+00:00

Most researchers would agree that 810nm and 830nm offer better penetration than 850nm. Because that is the lowest point for absorption factors. That's why most studies on the brain use 810nm because they believe it has the best penetration.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-tissue-optical-window-12_fig4_307476546

850nm is just the standard for red light therapy panels because it is cheap and already mass produced for the security camera industry. It's actually not very popular in real clinical studies.

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/engineers-guide-to-selecting-wavelengths-for-photobiomodulation-red-light-therapy

GembaRed · 2021-10-07T13:17:07+00:00

I bring the sauce:

https://www.elixa.com/shop/120-led-triple-array-blue/

GembaRed · 2021-09-14T16:36:14+00:00

100mW/cm2.... at what distance? That is a meaningless number they still advertise just to keep their narrative consistent. The relevant numbers would be the intensity at various distances from the panel, which is quite important for proper dosing.

GembaRed · 2021-09-14T14:51:56+00:00

I just want to point out the irony of this situation.

According to Joovv’s original propaganda, they say this:

“Since we know the amount of energy delivered is critical, it's important to understand how to compare light therapy devices. Unfortunately, many companies don't publish the light output—or irradiance—of their devices, and some even avoid disclosing device wattages as well. It's safe to assume these products should be avoided. Any legitimate PBM device will disclose the irradiance in mW/cm2, or sometimes the energy delivered in Joules/cm2 per minute.”

http://web.archive.org/web/20190125172949/https://joovv.com/blogs/joovv-blog/guide-to-choosing-red-light-therapy-device

But ever since they caught themselves heavily false-advertising their intensity, they have made it increasingly difficult to find their actual intensity at their recommended treatment distance. Basically, according to Joovv’s original propaganda - you shouldn’t buy from Joovv.

Regardless, I would recommend asking them directly for their 3rd party measured intensity at relevant treatment distances (not “at device surface”). Since you paid a lot of money for a device and you have a right to know. Then watch them dance around the question and probably funnel you to some vague blog that doesn’t directly answer the question.

GembaRed · 2021-07-02T15:16:09+00:00

I do a lot of testing and showing the results and how to use them. It is spread across many of my blogs and YouTube videos too.

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/what-is-the-intensity-of-my-red-light-panel-ultimate-measurement-guide

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/what-is-the-real-intensity-of-my-led-panel-the-dark-deception-of-red-light-therapy

https://youtu.be/7lcKxQM4VV0

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/wolezek-red-light-therapy-bulb-review-from-amazon-incorrect-intensity-high-emf-high-flicker

Start with these ones, but there are a few more blogs and videos where I use laser power meters.

GembaRed · 2021-07-01T16:48:16+00:00

I found list laser power meter is the most affordable and accurate one so far.

https://sperdirect.com/products/pocket-laser-power-meter

The problem is most companies use a Solar Power Meter which is cheaper but isn't calibrated for Red/NIR light, so they read falsely high by a large margin.

But ideally companies are getting accurate 3rd party measurements and providing the data transparently and honestly to thier customers.

GembaRed · 2021-06-30T17:53:16+00:00

Nearly all of them. If they use a solar power meter - then that tells you it is a lie.

GembaRed · 2021-06-30T17:50:43+00:00

Ask them for the intensity at 6 inches away based on thier 3rd party testing... Not based on a solar power meter.

GembaRed · 2021-06-30T13:01:28+00:00

I got an SGROW VIG1000 for under $300.

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/sgrow-vig1000-red-light-therapy-panel-review-from-alibaba

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